Stratolaunch: General Company and Development Updates and Discussions

[edkyle99]

Paul Allen should sit down with Bezo's and maybe Stratolaunch could drop a new Shepard launcher

Could get a decent payload to orbit.

New Shephard is too small to reach orbital velocity, even launched from the Stratolaunch carrier.  If New Shephard was scaled up by a factor of 5, then it could do as you suggest.  Since there are few potential rocket partners, I'm sure there have been phone calls.

Something along the lines of a New Shepard propulsion module topped by a couple of appropriately sized expendable solid motors should be able to roughly handle a Taurus or Epsilon size payload.  The propulsion module might have to be beefed up to handle the drop conditions, and its flyback profile would have to change to reduce horizontal velocity.  The important question is this:  where would it land?  It would likely need an uninhabited island or a landing ship.

 - Ed Kyle

[TrevorMonty]

Paul Allen should sit down with Bezo's and maybe Stratolaunch could drop a new Shepard launcher

Could get a decent payload to orbit.

New Shephard is too small to reach orbital velocity, even launched from the Stratolaunch carrier.  If New Shephard was scaled up by a factor of 5, then it could do as you suggest.  Since there are few potential rocket partners, I'm sure there have been phone calls.

Something along the lines of a New Shepard propulsion module topped by a couple of appropriately sized expendable solid motors should be able to roughly handle a Taurus or Epsilon size payload.  The propulsion module might have to be beefed up to handle the drop conditions, and its flyback profile would have to change to reduce horizontal velocity.  The important question is this:  where would it land?  It would likely need an uninhabited island or a landing ship.

 - Ed Kyle

A 5xBE3 booster with 1xBE3 upper stage. Being air launched means it can deploy from Pacific and have booster land down range on west coast. The reuse penalty might be as low as 10% (15% for downrange - 5% for airlaunch)

[leaflion]

Yay air launch hydrolox!

Just kidding.  That would be ridiculously complicated.  It's not a coincidence that Pegasus is a solid.

[Robotbeat]

Yay air launch hydrolox!

Just kidding.  That would be ridiculously complicated.  It's not a coincidence that Pegasus is a solid.

Air launch hydrolox is almost the only thing that makes sense. Solid airlaunch limits your payload dramatically. If you're doing solid, just launch from the ground.

Air launch would allow SSTO (or two-stage, if you count the aircraft as a stage) with a BE-3.

[Prober]

Paul Allen should sit down with Bezo's and maybe Stratolaunch could drop a new Shepard launcher

Could get a decent payload to orbit.

New Shephard is too small to reach orbital velocity, even launched from the Stratolaunch carrier.  If New Shephard was scaled up by a factor of 5, then it could do as you suggest.  Since there are few potential rocket partners, I'm sure there have been phone calls.

Something along the lines of a New Shepard propulsion module topped by a couple of appropriately sized expendable solid motors should be able to roughly handle a Taurus or Epsilon size payload.  The propulsion module might have to be beefed up to handle the drop conditions, and its flyback profile would have to change to reduce horizontal velocity.  The important question is this:  where would it land?  It would likely need an uninhabited island or a landing ship.

 - Ed Kyle

Was thinking New Mexico has the launch and landing possible.

How about drop to vertical (payload being heavier than engine section). Fire up ?

[Zed_Noir]

Paul Allen should sit down with Bezo's and maybe Stratolaunch could drop a new Shepard launcher

Could get a decent payload to orbit.

New Shephard is too small to reach orbital velocity, even launched from the Stratolaunch carrier.  If New Shephard was scaled up by a factor of 5, then it could do as you suggest.  Since there are few potential rocket partners, I'm sure there have been phone calls.

Something along the lines of a New Shepard propulsion module topped by a couple of appropriately sized expendable solid motors should be able to roughly handle a Taurus or Epsilon size payload.  The propulsion module might have to be beefed up to handle the drop conditions, and its flyback profile would have to change to reduce horizontal velocity.  The important question is this:  where would it land?  It would likely need an uninhabited island or a landing ship.

 - Ed Kyle

You could snatch the propulsion module in midair with a helicopter if the post-burn mass is less than about 20000 lbs. Also allowing the deletion of the landing gears and replace with a parachute for the snatch.

[leaflion]

Yay air launch hydrolox!

Just kidding.  That would be ridiculously complicated.  It's not a coincidence that Pegasus is a solid.

Air launch hydrolox is almost the only thing that makes sense. Solid airlaunch limits your payload dramatically. If you're doing solid, just launch from the ground.

Air launch would allow SSTO (or two-stage, if you count the aircraft as a stage) with a BE-3.

Looks good on paper until you have to carry a LH2 tank on your airplane.  Or lose a ton (literally) of propellant to boil off.

[TrevorMonty]

Yay air launch hydrolox!

Just kidding.  That would be ridiculously complicated.  It's not a coincidence that Pegasus is a solid.

Air launch hydrolox is almost the only thing that makes sense. Solid airlaunch limits your payload dramatically. If you're doing solid, just launch from the ground.

Air launch would allow SSTO (or two-stage, if you count the aircraft as a stage) with a BE-3.

Looks good on paper until you have to carry a LH2 tank on your airplane.  Or lose a ton (literally) of propellant to boil off.

Could carry a topup LH tank (bomb) on Stratolauncher. Wouldn't want to be the pilot.

[jongoff]

To me, being able to launch into a wide range of inclinations is not as important as the ability to do phasing to guarantee first-orbit rendezvous.

~Jon

But if you aren't launching humans (and Stratolaunch seems far away from that), then that is not nearly as important - right?

I could think of several benefits for different types of missions:

1- Eliminate the need for solar power on the delivery vehicle--you can just use batteries
2- Fuel deliveries where the tanker doesn't have to have as good of insulation as the depot/receiving vehicle
3- People, where long durations require a lot more life support hardware and consumables
4- RLVs where you want to get the orbital stage back as quickly as possible so you can get it flying again.

Right now most of these aren't big deals for existing markets, but I think they'll be dominant for the types of future markets I'm most interested in.

~Jon

[jongoff]

Yay air launch hydrolox!

Just kidding.  That would be ridiculously complicated.  It's not a coincidence that Pegasus is a solid.

Air launch hydrolox is almost the only thing that makes sense. Solid airlaunch limits your payload dramatically. If you're doing solid, just launch from the ground.

Air launch would allow SSTO (or two-stage, if you count the aircraft as a stage) with a BE-3.

Looks good on paper until you have to carry a LH2 tank on your airplane.  Or lose a ton (literally) of propellant to boil off.

There's good insulation technology out there (see Quest Thermal) that can solve this problem handily. They were developing it at one point to enable a High Altitude Long Endurance UAV that was powered by liquid hydrogen (running a fuel cell or combustion engine of some sort). I think cryogenic propellants on an air-launched vehicle is a solvable problem, even for LH2.

~Jon

[starchasercowboy]

I noticed this job at Vulcan and reading into the description,  it looks like they might be going to develop their own vehicle.
http://www.vulcan.com/About/Careers/Job-Listings?jvi=oE8f1fwM,Job

[yg1968]

I noticed this job at Vulcan and reading into the description,  it looks like they might be going to develop their own vehicle.
http://www.vulcan.com/About/Careers/Job-Listings?jvi=oE8f1fwM,Job

It's not clear to me if they would make the LV themselves or have a subcontractor do it for them:

Sr. Systems Engineer (Aerospace)
[...]
•Provide top-level systems engineering and integration support, to include: 1. The launch vehicle development for the Stratolaunch program 2. Entire range of aerospace subsystems, including: structures, mechanisms, propulsion, avionics, aerodynamics, guidance, navigation & control, flight safety, reliability, testing, and launch operations 3. Build-out of an integrated launch system operational program 4. Risk identification, tracking, mitigation and management 5. Scoping the Statements of Work and deliverables for engineering contracts and contractor management

[sanman]

Could carry a topup LH tank (bomb) on Stratolauncher. Wouldn't want to be the pilot.

Which prompts me to ask - why does the Stratolauncher even need a pilot? Wouldn't it be safer just to pilot it remotely like a drone?

[starchasercowboy]

What if the X-34's were still in refurbished condition.  I had a good look at the 2 that were in Mojave a couple years ago and they looked like they would still give NASA, DARPA or another willing investor the intended RLV operations that they were manufactured to explore. This would give Strato a head start on a program that was already fairly far along,  but needed an engine.  NASA wanted a particular engine Fastrac, but I think Orbital wanted the RD0124, in the end,  it came down to cost and NASA canceled the program,  along with X-33. If Stratolaunch was able to work out a deal with NASA and continue with X-34, what would that do for them?  Maybe,  it could lead to orbiting cube sats from the x-34's,  designing bigger RLV vehicles,  learning and improving RLV operation,  hypersonic studies. Hiring Jean Floyd was a good idea, he has a lot of experience with Pegasus  operations.

[Rocket Science]

Could carry a topup LH tank (bomb) on Stratolauncher. Wouldn't want to be the pilot.

Which prompts me to ask - why does the Stratolauncher even need a pilot? Wouldn't it be safer just to pilot it remotely like a drone?

Better ask the FAA first...

[hop]

Which prompts me to ask - why does the Stratolauncher even need a pilot? Wouldn't it be safer just to pilot it remotely like a drone?

Better ask the FAA first...

Even ignoring regulatory... challenges, Stratolauncher is a very expensive one-off aircraft. Losing it would mean standing down for years to build a replacement. If it's not reliable enough to put a pilot on, their business model is in deep trouble. AFAIK the reliability of UAVs is nowhere close to crewed commercial aircraft yet either, so the odds of needing to replace it would be much higher.

[Katana]

Why VG bought their own 747 for Launcherone instead of using ROC ? Failure of business cooperation?

[RonM]

Why VG bought their own 747 for Launcherone instead of using ROC ? Failure of business cooperation?

Because they already owned it. It was part of the Virgin Atlantic fleet. It's just shuffling money between corporations owned by the same people.

If VG leased ROC, they would have to give Northrop Grumman real money.

[yg1968]

You do have to wonder. Stratolaunch has a plane with no LV. Stratolaunch could have turned to VG for a LV. 

[TrevorMonty]

One possible LV for Stratolauncher is 1xBE4 1st stage  + BE3 US. Blue would even build it for them. Should be good for 10t LEO.
 Being air launched a RLV booster could land downrange on land.


Still have issue of boiloff during flight to launch area.