Author Topic: Stratolaunch: General Company and Development Updates and Discussions  (Read 1052177 times)

Offline space_dreamer

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I am excited about this, it could be a great system for manned space flight in the 2020s. 

However the bottom line is we are still at least 5 years away from private manned space flight and its badly needed now. This 5 year wait just makes money for Russia and could kill off the Bigelow space station. Then by the end of the decade there will be over capacity with several space ships and no where for them to go. (apart from two flights per year to the ISS)

IMHO A better investment would have been to fast track the SpaceX manned dragon and the Bigelow BA330 space station.

Offline BeanEstimator

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Quote
Plans call for a first flight within five years.

riiightttt....i assume that's first test flight.  how many people/tourists/etc have we launched collectively thus far mr. rutan, mr. musk, and mr. branson?

And just what do space tourists have to do with this?

i prefer the other posters humorous response...but allow me to expand.

this is, as they seem to be portraying it, a natural evolution of spaceshipone and spaceshiptwo.  both of those have a distinctly "space tourist" angle to them, do they not? 

this is in their statement: 

Quote
The Stratolaunch system will eventually have the capability of launching people into low earth orbit. But the company is taking a building block approach in development of the launch aircraft and booster, with initial efforts focused on unmanned payloads. Human flights will follow, after safety, reliability and operability are demonstrated.

people, whether they be "astronauts" or "space tourists" seem to be part of their equation. 

if space tourists, people, spam, garage built payloads (though i would propose bedroom built payloads as more proper term) are not part of their business then cool.  my bad. 

that means commercial payloads are their business.  and by extension government payloads

i didn't know we had a glut of commercial and gov payloads hanging out waiting for rides.  afaik, we have payloads on schedule, way out in the future.  you do have que issues, competition, etc.  perhaps i am drawing too distinct a line between "logjam" and "future planning".

hey its their money.  if they want to spend it on this, or something else, i'm all for it.  and as i said, at least it promotes space and keeps it in the publics eye.
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Offline strangequark

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So is Griffin going to get them to put an SRB on it?

Of course, to make it safe. It should be a simple thing to do, too, so we can expect it to happen soon.

Offline BeanEstimator

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So is Griffin going to get them to put an SRB on it?

only if it's a five segment  ;)
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Online Space OurSoul

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Some other things occur to me:

There's another hidden cost with crew launch: given that the booster's initial ground track would be over ocean, there would have to be a rescue ship pre-placed should the booster fail to light, since that Dragon's gonna make a splash-down not so very far away. (But maybe the Dragon can propulsively land on the ship's heli-pad :-) )


The flexibility of inclination and phase would position this system well to be the LON for many a customer. Might be a possible revenue stream.


Interesting times.
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Offline iamlucky13

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As long as the total width of the landing gears fits on the runway, it should work. It's like an A3 Sky Warrior or an A5 Vigilante catapulting off a carrier.

You do need margin for steering and landing inaccuracies, and you have to make sure there aren't things off the runway to clip.

Wing clearance isn't a major issue. There's several hundred feet of clear space on either side of a runway to any major obstacles like buildings. Smaller obstacles can theoretically be rebuilt.

However, in general engines aren't allowed to overhang off pavement because of FOD concerns.

Can't use Spacex's holddown before launch PR spin

Could they fire all 5 engines before the vehcile is released?

You'd be adding another half million pounds of thrust to an aircraft designed to take 2/3 that. That would also exert a very large torque about a single point on the wings, risk the aircraft taking debris from any engine failures, and have to deal with the plume.

Offline ugordan

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So is Griffin going to get them to put an SRB on it?

One could always claim the booster will need some ullage rockets to settle the propellants before ignition  ::)

Offline Tim S

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Hard to judge with so little info.

Offline ugordan

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i prefer the other posters humorous response...but allow me to expand.

this is, as they seem to be portraying it, a natural evolution of spaceshipone and spaceshiptwo.  both of those have a distinctly "space tourist" angle to them, do they not? 

Not really, the press conference was mainly about payloads of the Delta II class and any human launch would be more in the future.

this is in their statement: 

Quote
The Stratolaunch system will eventually have the capability of launching people into low earth orbit. But the company is taking a building block approach in development of the launch aircraft and booster, with initial efforts focused on unmanned payloads. Human flights will follow, after safety, reliability and operability are demonstrated.

people, whether they be "astronauts" or "space tourists" seem to be part of their equation. 

So you have a problem with none of them actually having flown any humans to space to date, despite the obvious "eventually" part above?

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Offline deltaV

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What does air launch buy you again?  A little bit of performance?  But most of the delta v needed to get to orbit is horizontal so it doesn't help that much.  You still need the same amount of ground support complexity plus now you have a huge airplane to maintain. 

I don't get it at all. This is just like one more launch site for F9. But launch sites already exists for Falcon 9.  I'll read more into it when I get home.
Technically it seems unlikely that air launch would help enough to be worth the trouble, but air launch hasn't been explored sufficiently for anyone to say for sure.  If it were my money I would spend it on other projects, but Paul Allen is the billionaire.

Offline ugordan

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If it were my money I would spend it on other projects, but Paul Allen is the billionaire.

Well put.

Offline AnalogMan

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Did they explicitly say the systems integration role falls to Stratolaunch?  Who does Stratolaunch employ with credentials for that?  Somebody with a long background handling big projects at e.g. LM or Boeing?  Unless they want things done "the NASA way" it doesn't seem like a long career as a NASA bureaucrat counts!

Did they say anything about contingencies on the runway, during initial climb out, during carrier flight, or at rocket separation/ignition?

Dynetics is privately held but presumably Griffin knows the principals there well (given the Huntsville connection).  The Dynetics prototyping facility is less than a year old, if it is even complete yet:
Dynetics breaks ground on 226,500-square-foot prototyping facility
Published: Monday, November 15, 2010

http://blog.al.com/huntsville-times-business/2010/11/dynetics_breaks_ground_on_2265.html

Has Dynetics been involved in projects like this attach/disconnect system in the past?

From the press kit:

"SpaceX will provide the booster and space launch mission design and mission integration services; Dynetics will provide program management and systems engineering and integration, as well as test and operations support to Stratolaunch; Dynetics will also build the mating and integration system hardware."
...

Dynetics
Founded in 1974 in Huntsville, Alabama, Dynetics provides engineering, research, and development products and services to both government and commercial customers. Dynetics enjoys a growing presence in five strategic business areas: intelligence, missiles, aviation, cyber, and space. It has extensive experience in large air-dropped payloads, including leading the development, integration, and flight of the world’s largest precision-guided air dropped systems, the Massive Ordnance Air Blast (MOAB), and providing support to the follow-on program, the Boeing Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP).

Dynetics has extensive aerospace systems integration and analysis experience from programs such as FASTSAT, our commercial satellite; the Multi Purpose Nano Missile System (MNMS), a small launch system for the U.S. Army Space and Missile Defense Command; and numerous complex missile and aviation defense integration projects.

Offline 93143

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...so SpaceShipThree is actually Dragon?

Offline wolfpack

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However, in general engines aren't allowed to overhang off pavement because of FOD concerns.


Yes. I almost saw an L-1011 ingest a bunny rabbit while looking out the window. I called the flight attendant over but they didn't seem too worried. I guess Bugs would have registered somewhere on the flight deck if he decided to inspect the turbofan!

Offline sdsds

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given that the booster's initial ground track would be over ocean, there would have to be a rescue ship pre-placed should the booster fail to light, since that Dragon's gonna make a splash-down not so very far away.

I don't see that as an absolute.  This could be one of those Dragon's that has considerable abort propellant it can use for soft touchdowns on land.

If the carrier flight path is from the U.S. southwest out over the Pacific, then the impact point of the rocket would likely trace a path over e.g. Guatemala before crossing the Caribbean.  Conceivably there is an abort opportunity leading to a soft landing there.

Of course the whole picture would look better if the spacecraft on the nose of the rocket looked more like a Dreamchaser!  ;)
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Offline BeanEstimator

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i prefer the other posters humorous response...but allow me to expand.

this is, as they seem to be portraying it, a natural evolution of spaceshipone and spaceshiptwo.  both of those have a distinctly "space tourist" angle to them, do they not? 

Not really, the press conference was mainly about payloads of the Delta II class and any human launch would be more in the future.

this is in their statement: 

Quote
The Stratolaunch system will eventually have the capability of launching people into low earth orbit. But the company is taking a building block approach in development of the launch aircraft and booster, with initial efforts focused on unmanned payloads. Human flights will follow, after safety, reliability and operability are demonstrated.

people, whether they be "astronauts" or "space tourists" seem to be part of their equation. 

So you have a problem with none of them actually having flown any humans to space to date, despite the obvious "eventually" part above?

Perhaps I read a different statement then...

Quote
Rutan, who has joined Stratolaunch Systems as a board member, said he was thrilled to be back working with Allen. “Paul and I pioneered private space travel with SpaceShipOne, which led to Virgin Galactic’s commercial suborbital SpaceShipTwo Program. Now, we will have the opportunity to extend that capability to orbit and beyond.

I don't have any "problems".  I have "concerns"   :D

Chief among them being:  assuming that a market exists today, and/or that a market will materialize in the future for what they are proposing.  Secondary being: this is somehow more cost effective, and/or cheaper (admittedly the jury will be out on that for quite some time)

You may disagree, fine.  You may think this has nothing to do with people and/or space tourists, fine.  You may think this has nothing to do with SS1 or SS2, fine.  That's not how I read their statement, nor how I perceived their presser.

I propose we go back to naming and describing the "numerous payloads built by unskilled labor" in our garages and bedrooms.
Note:  My posts are meant to discuss matters of public concern.  Posts and opinions are entirely my own and do not represent NASA, the government, or anyone else.

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Offline ugordan

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Of course the whole picture would look better if the spacecraft on the nose of the rocket looked more like a Dreamchaser!  ;)

Or, dragging all this back toward slightly more realistic scenarios... a normal fairing on top of the booster, see artwork http://stratolaunch.com/

You all are getting way ahead of something that's already way out there.
« Last Edit: 12/13/2011 08:40 pm by ugordan »

Offline Nascent Ascent

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Hey Paul Allen!  We really could have used a lunar lander...

Just saying..   :D

Offline sdsds

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From the press kit:

"[...] Dynetics will provide program management and systems engineering and integration, as well as test and operations support to Stratolaunch; Dynetics will also build the mating and integration system hardware."

Ah, my apologies for not reading more closely.  Looking deeper, it seems the talented staff at Dynetics includes Steve Cook, former Ares Launch Vehicle program manager.  http://stratolaunch.com/readmore_dynetics.html
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