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The China Taikonauts Thread
by
Chris Bergin
on 07 Dec, 2011 16:16
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#1
by
Chris Bergin
on 07 Dec, 2011 16:22
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#2
by
tonyq
on 14 Dec, 2011 21:07
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I did a radio interview today about my role the unmasking of the second taikonaut group.
One of the questions I was asked was:-
"Why do the Chinese keep the names of their taikonauts secret (until they have been assigned to a flight) when so many other aspects of their space programme are being conducted in a fairly open way?"
I did give an answer which represented a personal view, but it is a wholly legitimate question, and I'd be interested to read a cross section of views from the regulars on here.
I'll post my own answer in a day or two.
TIA
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#3
by
parg1
on 17 Dec, 2011 20:49
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I did a radio interview today about my role the unmasking of the second taikonaut group.
One of the questions I was asked was:-
"Why do the Chinese keep the names of their taikonauts secret (until they have been assigned to a flight) when so many other aspects of their space programme are being conducted in a fairly open way?"
I did give an answer which represented a personal view, but it is a wholly legitimate question, and I'd be interested to read a cross section of views from the regulars on here.
I'll post my own answer in a day or two.
TIA
Congratulations Tony on obtaining details of the Second Taikonaut group.
Considering the secrecy that the Soviet Space programme operated under; the Chinese are remarkably open. While we may not yet have individual photographs of all of the taikonauts selected in 1998; we know their names, and they are not hidden from sight until receiving a flight asignment. Some can be seen in the background of the farwell ceremony for Shenzhou 7 crew in their distinctive blue tracksuits, and a group photograph exists of all 14 members at the time of the selection of Yang Liwei for Shenzhou 5. We even have some details of the 19 Candidates selected in 1971 for their first manned space effort. As well as some detals of female candidates for the Second Group.
I believe that the Chinese are not deliberately hidding the information about their taikonauts....they are just not publicising it expressly, the cover you discovered has been in circulation for some months; but until your detective work it's significance was not recognised. One is reminded of the days of the "Soviet Sleuths" when information on Cosmonaut selection was found by dedicated followers of the Soviet Manned Space Programme, who would then publish in magazines like Spaceflight In the case of the Chinese the information is there but it needs to be discovered and then as Tony has done..be made public.
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#4
by
Phillip Clark
on 18 Dec, 2011 09:50
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Of course, Rex Hall was the greatest of the cosmonaut team sleuths, and he and Neil da Costa were the first westerners to meet the Chinese trainees at Zvezdny Gorodok and getting the pictures to prove it.
Those pictures ended up being bootlegged by Mark Wade for his web site, of course.
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#5
by
TALsite
on 02 Jan, 2012 11:28
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...and I'd be interested to read a cross section of views from the regulars on here.
I'll post my own answer in a day or two.
I believe that the Chinese are not deliberately hidding the information about their taikonauts....
IMO I think all the secrecy is because the tight control of information that the Chinese government imposed on the population (internet, newspapers) ...
When a cosmonaut is assigned, all the secrecy turns to great fanfare of the regime.
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#6
by
TALsite
on 02 Jan, 2012 11:31
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Let’s post some images on this thread. This is the best (biggest) shot of the first group (1998).
I found it here:
http://www.spacefacts.de/groups/english/china1.htmPlease help if you can. From left to right:
1.- Unknown 2.- Unknown 3.- Unknown 4.-
Jie Wu? 5.-
Qinglong Li? 6.-
Haisheng Nie 7.-
Liwei Yang 8.-
Zhigang Zhai 9.-
Junlong Fei 10.- Unknown 11.- Unknown 12.- Unknown 13.- Unknown 14.-
Buoming Liu?
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#7
by
tonyq
on 02 Jan, 2012 22:42
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I am aware that the very same photo has been shown to Yang Liwei and Fei Junlong at an event outside China which they were attending, by a well-known researcher/author on all matters space, who would, I think, prefer to remain anonymous, for the pupose of this story.
After being a little surprised that anyone outside China had a copy of this image, they then proceeded to identify themselves and each of the flown or otherwise known guys(i.e. those officially named as back-ups on SZ-6 or 7).
That left 4 or 5 unaccounted for, but when asked to match the remaining faces to a printed list of the remaining names, they claimed that the image was not clear enough. This was plainly nonsense, they'd all been in the same training group for 10+ years at the time and must have know each other well.
I think this does illustrate that, for whatever reason, there Chinese are really sensitive about these people being formally identified, before they are assigned, and that Yang and Fei were well briefed on what was, and wasn't, information in the 'public domain'.
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#8
by
tonyq
on 02 Jan, 2012 22:51
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As the request was to post more photos, here are some more images of the two female candidates which have been culled from Chinese websites, but which haven't been published before in connection with their selection for the space programme.
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#9
by
parg1
on 03 Jan, 2012 22:19
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Further to the Group Photograph, I believe that T-11 is Buoming not T-14. I do not think that T-5 is Qinglong as the photo I have found below shows the candidate to the right of Haisheng in more detail
Photographs also exist of the unflown taikonauts in the background of the welcoming ceremony for the Shenzhou 7 crew and can be accessed at
http://www.astronaut.ru/as_china/text/sel04.htm.
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#10
by
TALsite
on 03 Jan, 2012 22:39
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I am aware that the very same photo has been shown to Yang Liwei and Fei Junlong
.
.
That left 4 or 5 unaccounted for, but when asked to match the remaining faces to a printed list of the remaining names, they claimed that the image was not clear enough. This was plainly nonsense, they'd all been in the same training group for 10+ years at the time and must have know each other well.
Watching the group photo it seems that the photographer is more interested on the "State Commission"
Thank you for the new photos Tony.
Photographs also exist of the unflown taikonauts in the background of the welcoming ceremony for the Shenzhou 7 crew and can be accessed at
http://www.astronaut.ru/as_china/text/sel04.htm.
This is a very interesting link. And this one
http://www.astronaut.ru/as_china/text/face.htm have interesting captures of background taikonauts at the bottom of the page.
Edit:
Link was wrong
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#11
by
Liss
on 18 Feb, 2012 19:14
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Let’s post some images on this thread. This is the best (biggest) shot of the first group (1998).
I found it here: http://www.spacefacts.de/groups/english/china1.htm
Please help if you can. From left to right:
1.- Unknown 2.- Unknown 3.- Unknown 4.- Jie Wu? 5.- Qinglong Li? 6.- Haisheng Nie 7.- Liwei Yang 8.- Zhigang Zhai 9.- Junlong Fei 10.- Unknown 11.- Unknown 12.- Unknown 13.- Unknown 14.- Buoming Liu?
The best understanding of today is:
1.
Li Qinglong; 2.
Liu Wang; 3.
Chen Quan; 4.-
Wu Jie; 5. Unknown; 6.
Nie Haisheng; 7.
Yang Liwei; 8.
Zhai Zhigang; 9.
Fei Junlong; 10. Unknown; 11.
Liu Boming; 12. Unknown; 13. Unknown; 14.-
Jing HaipengFour names for unknowns are: Deng Qingming, Pan Zhanchun, Zhang Xiaoguang and Zhao Chuandong.
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#12
by
tonyq
on 09 May, 2012 19:27
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A senior Chinese official has confirmed the inclusion of a female taikonaut in the crew of Shenzhou 9.
Speaking at a ceremony, held on 5th May, to mark the departure of the Long March booster to the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Centre, Chinese Academy of Launch Technology, Commander in Chief, Liu Yu commented that the rocket would be used to carry China's first woman into space, together with two other astronauts.
The Shenzhou 9 spacecraft itself has been at Jiuquan since 9th April.
The Chinese media, and officials, are still referring to launch within a 'June to August' window, but with the hardware all at Jiuquan imminently, it is clear they are working towards a launch at the earlier part of that timeframe.
There has been no official indication of the identity of the Shenzhou 9 prime and back-up crews. However, some Chinese language forums have reported that PLAAF pilot, Major Liu Yang, 33, has been already selected for the Shenzhou 9 prime crew, and will become China's first woman in space, but it is impossible to judge whether these reports have any veracity. Chinese officials have previously said that the crew would not be selected until the final days before launch.
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#13
by
BUAA
on 14 May, 2012 19:23
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I did a radio interview today about my role the unmasking of the second taikonaut group.
One of the questions I was asked was:-
"Why do the Chinese keep the names of their taikonauts secret (until they have been assigned to a flight) when so many other aspects of their space programme are being conducted in a fairly open way?"
I did give an answer which represented a personal view, but it is a wholly legitimate question, and I'd be interested to read a cross section of views from the regulars on here.
I'll post my own answer in a day or two.
TIA
I believe the reason for not disclosing the identities of the astronauts was to protect them from the fame and external interruptions. The celebrity status of the astronauts (even for those who haven't flown yet) can well become a burden. For example, they may get apporached by the press for exclusive interviews. Their fame could be used by the local governments of their hometowns for their own publicity. Some people may even try to use the astronauts' special status to connect with senior leadership, etc.
All of these are very unique in the Chinese culutre of 'Guanxi' (connections), and can be very disruptive to their training. In fact, the names of the two female astronaut trainees were first disclosed by the newspapers of their hometown, not state media. I'm sure this wasn't in the original plan.
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#14
by
tonyq
on 16 May, 2012 14:36
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I believe the reason for not disclosing the identities of the astronauts was to protect them from the fame and external interruptions. The celebrity status of the astronauts (even for those who haven't flown yet) can well become a burden. For example, they may get apporached by the press for exclusive interviews. Their fame could be used by the local governments of their hometowns for their own publicity. Some people may even try to use the astronauts' special status to connect with senior leadership, etc.
All of these are very unique in the Chinese culutre of 'Guanxi' (connections), and can be very disruptive to their training. In fact, the names of the two female astronaut trainees were first disclosed by the newspapers of their hometown, not state media. I'm sure this wasn't in the original plan.
I'd agree with all that you say there. In addition, the fact that the programme has a very heavy military influence and that all the taikonauts, including the women, are military officers, must shape their whole approach to media exposure and relations.
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#15
by
TALsite
on 03 Jun, 2013 11:18
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This quotes were from the SZ-9 thread. I post it here because I think it's most accurate, and add some clues to the SZ-10 crew composition.
I'm not saying the Chinese are following exactly the same traditions than the
russians but...
Here are the two crews.
From left, Wang Yaping, ??, NieHaisheng, Liu Yang, ??, Jing Haipen
Russians (and foreigners flying on a Soyuz) only plant trees if they are prime crew and they haven't been launched from Baikonur previously
Two more photos of one of the crews planting trees at JSLC:
Watching the picture planting trees, the man on the right is Jing Haipen, and
watching the haircut of the woman (is short on her ear side) I think isn't the identified as Wang Yaping on the “two crews together” picture.
Hope the Chinese authorities will announce crews soon... 
So, watching who flew the SZ-9 mission we can assume, Chinese follow the same traditions as Russians.
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#16
by
TALsite
on 03 Jun, 2013 11:20
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This is a curious image, which I initially thought showed the SZ-9 back-up crew arriving at the launch centre on 9th June.
However on closer review, it is Nie Haisheng, Liu Wang and Wang Yaping, i.e. two back-ups and one prime crew member.
Does this raise a question over whether the final crews were not actually settled at this stage?
Do we know if the Chinese fly their prime and back-up crews on different aircraft, like the Russians?
It may be that they all flew together and simply piled off the plane in a random sequence, but then we do have a 'crew' here Commander, Docking pilot and woman, so it doesn't look like an arbitrary disembarkation.
Thoughts anyone? 
I re-posted this image from (great analist) tonyq because he didn't get any answer.
Assuming the Chinese follow the Russian traditions, and that it's not logical to fly mixed crews, I think that this was the Backup crew, but in the pre-launch training, officials swapped the docking-operator: Liu Wang instead of Zhang Xiaoguan.
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#17
by
tonyq
on 03 Jun, 2013 16:25
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Thanks for the kind words TAL.
Actually I did get an answer to this mystery eventually, from the Chinese language book on the SZ-9 mission.
It contains this photo of the crew being presented to officials before leaving the astronaut training facility in Beijing on 9th June 2012.
This shows that the prime crew when they left Beijing was Jing/Liu/Liu.
Witnesses have confirmed that they departed/arrived on two planes, in groups of three. Why they were shuffled for that journey is a mystery, but it does seem that there was no last minute crew change.
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#18
by
Liss
on 04 Jun, 2013 09:38
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The best understanding of today is:
1. Li Qinglong; 2. Liu Wang; 3. Chen Quan; 4. Wu Jie; 5. Unknown; 6. Nie Haisheng; 7. Yang Liwei; 8. Zhai Zhigang; 9. Fei Junlong; 10. Unknown; 11. Liu Boming; 12. Unknown; 13. Unknown; 14. Jing Haipeng
Four names for unknowns are: Deng Qingming, Pan Zhanchun, Zhang Xiaoguang and Zhao Chuandong.
The best understanding of today is:
1.
Li Qinglong; 2.
Liu Wang; 3.
Chen Quan; 4.
Wu Jie; 5.
Pan Zhanchun; 6.
Nie Haisheng; 7.
Yang Liwei; 8.
Zhai Zhigang; 9.
Fei Junlong; 10.
Zhao Chuandong; 11.
Liu Boming; 12.
Zhang Xiaoguang; 13.
Deng Qingming; 14.
Jing Haipeng
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#19
by
tonyq
on 10 Jun, 2013 15:45
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So, now that we know the SZ-10 crew, for certain, and their are strong rumours, but not officially confirmed about the back-up crew (Liu/Pan/Deng?) we can examine what this means for the team overall.
It seems that there is a stong chance that Li Qinglong, ChenQuan, Wu Jie are, for whatever reason, no longer eligible for flight assignments. Yang Liwei, Fei Junlong and Zhai Zhigang are probably 'grounded' either by their current jobs or by their iconic status (or both). Jing Haipeng may also fall into this group; would he fly a third time?
We know nothing about Zhao Chuandong, but it has been reported elsewhere that he too is retired.
So, we are down to a likely maximum of six of the original group, plus the five 2010 men and the two girls. Liu Yang is probably grounded too.
If they plan just two manned flights to TG-2, they will need at least nine crew members, including three veterans, so it seems that they will barely have enough, and if one or more of the veterans is eliminated between now and then, or they actually plan three flights, they will be in trouble.
It is possible that Wang Yaping is being groomed as a future 'veteran', perhaps as insurance. According to one media report today she has been trained to pilot the manual docking, and there is video of her doing just that, in the SZ simulator.
Presumably, therefore, we will see a new recruitment process begin, fairly soon, perhaps even being announced during SZ-10's mission.
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#20
by
Satori
on 10 Jun, 2013 19:28
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Wang Yaping, being the youngest of the group (I think!), will probably be eligible for a Commanding position on a next flight to TG-2.
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#21
by
hal9000
on 11 Jun, 2013 11:14
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Have we had any conformation on the backup crew for SZ-10 yet?
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#22
by
tonyq
on 11 Jun, 2013 16:04
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Wang Yaping, being the youngest of the group (I think!), will probably be eligible for a Commanding position on a next flight to TG-2.
Further references in today's coverage to Wang Yaping being trained to carry out the manual docking. There was never any mention of Liu Yang doing this, last year, so it may well be an additional skill that Wang has been trained in, during the extra year preparation she has had. That raised the question, Why?
In we fast forward 4 or 5 years, the 1998 guys will all be retired, or close to it and Wang and Liu could well be the senior members of the team, albeit still in their mid/late thirties, so putting all this together, Rui could be on to something here!
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#23
by
tonyq
on 11 Jun, 2013 16:07
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Have we had any conformation on the backup crew for SZ-10 yet?
No, I don't think we have, but the same names were circulating for a week or two before the mission, so I feel that there is a very high probability that they are correct (Liu/Pan/Deng)
I doubt we will get an official announcement now, so the best chance is for a stray photo to turn up somewhere on the web.
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#24
by
npuentes
on 13 Jun, 2013 17:16
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I find it interesting that Nie Haisheng has served as prime (SZ-6, 10) or backup (SZ-5, 7, 9) on every Shenzhou mission. He's virtually the Chinese equivalent of John Young!
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#25
by
ashotb
on 15 Jun, 2013 12:16
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I find it interesting that Nie Haisheng has served as prime (SZ-6, 10) or backup (SZ-5, 7, 9) on every Shenzhou mission. He's virtually the Chinese equivalent of John Young!
In fact, he does not have an equivalent at all - he is the one and only, as NOBODY else has ever been enrolled in prime or backup crews of ALL manned spaceflights to this point.
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#26
by
Paolo
on 18 Jun, 2013 10:13
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Does anyone know the date of birth of Zhang Xiaoguang ?
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#27
by
Satori
on 18 Jun, 2013 10:20
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Does anyone know the date of birth of Zhang Xiaoguang ?
The only info available is that he was born on May 1966.
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#28
by
TALsite
on 02 Sep, 2014 20:14
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Bumped!
Do you see any rookie taikonaut on your summer holidays?
Just to say that the 27th Planetary Congress of the Association of Space Explorers (ASE) will take place in Beijing on September 10th to 15th.
http://www.space-explorers.org
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#29
by
Satori
on 13 Sep, 2014 20:13
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From Xinhua,
China plans to train engineers to be astronauts.
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The country will finish the third round of astronaut selection in the next two years..."
"
However, in the third round of selection, there will not be new female astronauts since two have been on active service..."
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#30
by
tonyq
on 19 Oct, 2014 09:14
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I am bumping this thread, as Rui (Satori) and I have recently been gathering information on the current status of the 21 taikonauts of Groups 1 and 2, to try and establish who will/won't be eligible to fly on SZ-11 in 2016, and beyond.
We've also been looking past 2016, examining the age profile of the current groups and considering the need to generate more 'veterans' to command the intial manned missions to the CSS from 2018 onwards.
Our initial thoughts suggest that there may only be 11 taikonauts eligible for assignment to SZ-11 prime/back-up/support crews.
We will share our wider thoughts/conclusions/ideas in the next couple of weeks, but, in the meantime, if anyone has any information or speculation they would like to contribute to our information gathering, please feel free to share now. Thanks.
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#31
by
TALsite
on 19 Oct, 2014 23:20
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We will share our wider thoughts/conclusions/ideas in the next couple of weeks, but, in the meantime, if anyone has any information or speculation they would like to contribute to our information gathering, please feel free to share now. Thanks.
Ok, hope this may help
This is a .pdf from my database with the
active Chinese cosmonauts.
List is sorted by:
1-Time from their last spaceflight
2-Selection group
3-Their actual age (if it's known their DOB)
Edited:ALL chinese cosmonauts
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#32
by
Satori
on 29 Aug, 2015 17:59
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A bump on this thread for no special reason. We cannot only remember them when a Shenzhou mission is about to be.
Any recente news about the Taikonauts?
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#33
by
Phillip Clark
on 29 Aug, 2015 18:39
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When I met Tony Quine we discussed the Shenzhou 10 back-up crew which has been rumoured but in reality we have no idea who this might have been.
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#34
by
tonyq
on 30 Aug, 2015 17:26
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When I met Tony Quine we discussed the Shenzhou 10 back-up crew which has been rumoured but in reality we have no idea who this might have been.
I recall that conversation Phil, and at the time of SZ-10 our best guestimate for the back-up crew was Liu Boming/Pan Zhanchun/Deng Qingming and these names did appear briefly on some Chinese language websites, before disappearing. The logic was that Liu was a veteran who could serve as commander and Pan and Deng were rookies from 1998, and possibly the only two still eligible for selection, as some of the others seem likely to have retired, or been disqualified.
Turning to Rui's post, yes, it has been very quiet on the topic for a while, but hopefully it will change in the months ahead. In September 2014, Yang Liwei said that selection of the third group of Chinese astronauts would be completed 'within two years'. As the 2010 selection took about 9/10 months from start to finish, they should start that process before the end of 2015? That said, there is no guarantee that they will tell the outside world when they begin!
Equally, TG-2 and SZ-11 campaigns should take place in 2016, so we may get some hints about the crew over the next six months or so. Most likely option seems to suggest either Liu Wang or Zhang Xiaoguang to command, with two of the 2010 male group. They need to generate more flown men, who are young enough to command SZ missions in the 2017-2020 time frame.
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#35
by
TALsite
on 31 Aug, 2015 17:40
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I lived the secretism of the Soviet Manned Space Program before the glasnot, and I will never understand why Chinese Space Authorities are doing the same in the 21st Century...
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#36
by
Satori
on 10 Oct, 2015 12:52
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According to SinoDefence twitter, Shenzhou 7 flight engineer Liu Boming has been promoted to Major General.
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#37
by
ZachS09
on 13 Oct, 2015 01:21
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Since the backup crew of Shenzhou 9 flew on Shenzhou 10, I'm guessing that Boming, Zhanchun, and Qingming will fly on Shenzhou 11. So, here's my theory of the Shenzhou 11 crew:
Commander: Liu Boming (2)
Operator 1: Pan Zhanchun (1)
Operator 2: Deng Qingming (1)
Boming would sit in the center seat with Qingming on his left-hand side and Zhanchun on his right-hand side.
"IF I'M WRONG ABOUT THIS ASSUMPTION, PLEASE LET ME KNOW"
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#38
by
Phillip Clark
on 13 Oct, 2015 06:06
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So we know with any certainty who the back-up crew were for Shenzhou 10? I thought that they are unknown despite online rumours "naming" them.
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#39
by
tonyq
on 13 Oct, 2015 09:44
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Since the backup crew of Shenzhou 9 flew on Shenzhou 10, I'm guessing that Boming, Zhanchun, and Qingming will fly on Shenzhou 11. So, here's my theory of the Shenzhou 11 crew:
Commander: Liu Boming (2)
Operator 1: Pan Zhanchun (1)
Operator 2: Deng Qingming (1)
Boming would sit in the center seat with Qingming on his left-hand side and Zhanchun on his right-hand side.
"IF I'M WRONG ABOUT THIS ASSUMPTION, PLEASE LET ME KNOW"
Phil is right, that we don't know for sure who the back-up SZ-10 crew were, although there were many suggestions at the time that it was this trio.
However, I think you are wrong about your assumption that this will be the SZ-11 crew.
Firstly, there is a lot of evidence that shows that after each manned campaign the back-up crews are dissolved and new selection process start for the next mission or series of missions (in the case of SZ-9 and SZ-10). I you dispute this theory, take a look at the back-up for SZ-5, SZ-6 and SZ-7. A back-up role does not guarantee and seat on the next flight. SZ-9 and SZ-10 were a little different as they were closely linked missions, and they wanted to fly both girls.
SZ-11 marks the start of a new campaign, and I would expect them to start crew selection with a blank canvass.
Then there is the issue of experience. It appears that 50 is the retirement age for taikonauts, and SZ-11 appears to be the only manned flight to TG-2 before they begin manned flights to the CSS in c2018. Their own requirements are that an veteran must command each flight. The original 1998 cohort are getting past or close to retirement, and all will be too old by 2020, so they will run out of veterans fairly soon, and need to generate new experienced flyers, from the 2010 group, who will lead the CSS flights when they start.
Whilst Liu Boming is a possible commander for SZ-11, I suspect that Liu Wang or Zhang Xiaoguan are more likely, having flown the previous docking missions, with two rookies for the 2010 cohort going up, to be blooded, as possible future commanders regular flight to the CSS begin.
Discuss!! :-)
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#40
by
Phillip Clark
on 13 Oct, 2015 10:33
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Tony, this might sound crazy but might the Chinese consider a female commander for a flight to the station scheduled to begin in 2018?
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#41
by
tonyq
on 13 Oct, 2015 13:05
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Tony, this might sound crazy but might the Chinese consider a female commander for a flight to the station scheduled to begin in 2018?
Phil, as we all know, it is difficult to try to guess what the Chinese might do, but it does seem to me that by 2018 or so, they will have very few 'veterans' who are under the age of 50, but that number will include the two women.
I suspect that Liu Yang will be regarded as a 'national treasure' and therefore not likely to be assigned again, but Wang Yaping is a different case, and I would have thought that she will be eligible for consideration as a future Shenzhou commander. Probably not for SZ-11, but maybe once the CSS is launched and being visited regularly - maybe twice a year from 2018 onwards.
At the time of SZ-10, it emerged that Wang had trained to dock SZ-10, and although she didn't do this in orbit, it did imply that she might already have been on a different training and development regime to Liu Yang.
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#42
by
ZachS09
on 16 Oct, 2015 18:22
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Thanks, tonyq.
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#43
by
tonyq
on 22 Feb, 2016 13:22
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With the indications in other threads about a possible SZ-12 visit to TG-2, in addition to the long planned SZ-11, it is perhaps time to bump this thread and stimulate a bit of crewing discussion and speculation.
For SZ-9/10 campaign, the Chinese selected a pool of nine taikonauts and formed them into three crews. There were three veterans who were the commanders and they have since said that it is a requirement that each crew includes an experienced crew member.
They have also said in the past, and Yang Liwei himself has said this, that no one can fly aged over 50 years. This is aligned to PLAAF pilot age limits.
If these parameters still apply, and there is no reason to think that they don't, then they will shape the crewing options, to a very significant degree.
Most of the 1998 selection are now over 50 with only Liu Wang and Zhang Xiaoguan having flown, and still being under 50, by the end of 2016. So it seems a reasonable bet that they will be two of the commanders.
The third commander spot is trickier. Liu Boming who was back-up for SZ-10 is 50 later this year. Will he still be available for assignment, or is he out of the picture? If he is not available, it leaves only the two women, and of these Liu Yang seems unlikely to fly again, as she is a 'national treasure' and had a child in 2014. This leaves only Wang Yaping.
Assuming that they are all fit and qualified, the five rookie men from 2010 should logically form the bulk of the cohort, which leaves us one short of the nine. Ideally they need to fly several of these guys over the TG-2 campaign to generate a reasonable flow of younger future commanders for the CSS era.
If either of the rookie back-up crew from SZ-10 (Deng Qingmin and Pan Zhanchun) are still under 50, then they could be part of the six rookies and give us the nine required.
Discuss!
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#44
by
Phillip Clark
on 22 Feb, 2016 13:39
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I wasn't aware that the Shenzhou 10 back-ups had been confirmed by the Chinese.
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#45
by
tonyq
on 22 Feb, 2016 14:34
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I wasn't aware that the Shenzhou 10 back-ups had been confirmed by the Chinese.
Yes, Phil, you are right, although I think there were enough sources who gave these names at the time, and they were entirely logical, for us to be fairly happy that they were the right trio. It is not clear why the Chinese didn't name them when all the previous back-up crews were totally visible.
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#46
by
Nordren
on 28 Feb, 2016 20:23
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The announcement of the launch schedule for Tiangong-2, Shenzhou-11 and Tianzhou-1 by
Xinhua says SZ-11 will take just TWO taikonauts to TG-2. So, a longer stay in orbit for the crew compared with SZ-9 & 10 missions?
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#47
by
Steven Pietrobon
on 29 Feb, 2016 00:44
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The announcement of the launch schedule for Tiangong-2, Shenzhou-11 and Tianzhou-1 by Xinhua says SZ-11 will take just TWO taikonauts to TG-2. So, a longer stay in orbit for the crew compared with SZ-9 & 10 missions?
It certainly looks like it. The article says the taikonauts will be performing a "medium-term stay".
"During the process, China will verify key technologies including cargo transportation, on-orbit propellant resupply, astronauts' medium-term stay, as well as conduct space science and application experiments on a relatively large scale, the spokesperson said."
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#48
by
TALsite
on 01 Mar, 2016 13:08
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From Go Taikonauts!
http://www.go-taikonauts.com/en/chinese-space-news/1263-next-manned-chinese-space-mission-is-planned-to-last-one-monthNext manned Chinese space mission is planned to last one month
The plan is to have them stay inside the new lab for 30 days, doubling the previous Chinese record for the longest manned space mission. Nie Haisheng, chief of China's astronaut brigade, says staying in space for a longer period of time comes with a number of challenges.
And from
http://english.cri.cn/12394/2016/03/01/3746s918563.htmNie Haiseng has also said
...in the future, our astronauts are going to have to complete a lot of tasks during the space walks, as they will have to deal with issues such as equipment transfers, installation, repairs, maintenance and disassembling different components. We also have plans to carry out some scientific experiments outside the space capsule.
IMO I think EVA plans will come with the SZ-12 flight (and 3 crewmen?).
And with EVA plans, maybe Liu Boming would be a good CDR because he has also experience on EVA from his previous SZ-7 flight.
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#49
by
Olaf
on 15 May, 2016 07:50
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#50
by
tonyq
on 15 May, 2016 22:57
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https://twitter.com/ESA_CAVES/status/541648706484064256
Here a photo with Ye Guangfu and Chen Dong.
Maybe someone at ESA has some more.
Based on their policy of the last 18 odd years, of keeping unflown taikonauts out of photographs, someone has slipped up here. As you ask, has anyone at ESA got anymore, particularly the remaining three 2010 men?
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#51
by
tonyq
on 26 Jun, 2016 07:29
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#52
by
Satori
on 20 Jul, 2016 21:37
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#53
by
SMS
on 31 Aug, 2016 20:47
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ChinaSpaceflight @cnspaceflight
王亚平
Wang Yaping
1.09 at 8 CCTV1?
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#54
by
ZachS09
on 31 Aug, 2016 21:08
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Is that taikonaut Wang Yaping?
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#55
by
tonyq
on 02 Sep, 2016 21:07
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Is that taikonaut Wang Yaping?
Yes, it certainly is. This photo is connected to recent TV show she was involved in.
I have not seen the badge above her name tag before. Could this be the 'wings' awarded to Chinese astronauts who have flown in space?
At the risk of being called sexist, I'm going to say what everyone is thinking, that she's a stunning looking girl
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#56
by
zubenelgenubi
on 02 Sep, 2016 22:27
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Question:
Have any of the taikonauts made appearances or presentations in the United States?
(I know there is currently federal law restricting NASA from "bilateral activity" with PRC institutions. NASA is not the whole of the United States of America.)
Thank you!
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#57
by
Hobbes-22
on 03 Sep, 2016 08:23
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Do we have to use the term 'taikonaut'? The Chinese space agency doesn't, they use 'astronaut' in their English-language communications.
With the proliferation of spaceflight, it'll be untenable to use country-specific titles for every country's spaceflight personnel, so we might as well start calling them all astronauts now.
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#58
by
Phillip Clark
on 03 Sep, 2016 08:27
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Do we have to use the term 'taikonaut'? The Chinese space agency doesn't, they use 'astronaut' in their English-language communications.
With the proliferation of spaceflight, it'll be untenable to use country-specific titles for every country's spaceflight personnel, so we might as well start calling them all astronauts now.
Since the first man in space was a COSMONAUT then surely that should be the universal term for a space flier if you wish to impose such a term.
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#59
by
Hobbes-22
on 03 Sep, 2016 08:58
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I think we're stuck with astronaut/cosmonaut as those are too entrenched by now. For other countries we can do better.
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#60
by
Phil Stooke
on 03 Sep, 2016 21:03
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"Since the first man in space was a COSMONAUT then surely that should be the universal term for a space flier if you wish to impose such a term."
The first images of the far side of the Moon were taken by Luna 3 in October 1959, before anybody had flown in space. Soviet scientists compiled the first maps of the far side from the new images and gave names to some features. One was Mare Moscoviense, the 'Sea of Moscow'. And on its south side they named an indentation Zaliv Astronavtov, the 'Bay of Astronauts'. (Source: Atlas of the Reverse Side of the Moon, USSR Academy of Sciences, 1960).
So the Russians themselves were using the term Astronaut before Gagarin. Not that I think it alone should be used, but there's no justification for imposing a 'universal term' based on a dubious notion of first usage.
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#61
by
Liss
on 03 Sep, 2016 21:35
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Up to October 1960, official term was indeed 'astronaut', changed to 'cosmonaut' before April 1961 to be different from the American one.
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#62
by
plutogno
on 04 Sep, 2016 06:10
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#63
by
Steven Pietrobon
on 04 Sep, 2016 07:14
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#64
by
Phillip Clark
on 04 Sep, 2016 07:34
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I like using Taikonauts. There's even a website that promotes the name.
http://www.go-taikonauts.com/en/
True, but "taikonaut" is still an unofficial made-up name. The word hangtianyuan has been used by the Chinese specifically for Chinese cosmonauts.
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#65
by
zubenelgenubi
on 16 Oct, 2016 15:35
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Follow-up on the Shenzhou-11 press conferences:
Jing Haipeng is back as commander.
The left seat will be filled by Chen Dong.
(Image file originally provided by ace5, assumedly screen captured from the 1st press conference.)
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#66
by
hal9000
on 17 Oct, 2016 09:17
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Any word who the Backup crew are?
I think we have known that on the previous missions.
BTW: Jing Haipeng has been on 50% of the manned missions undertaken by China! That's a record that is unlikely to be matched (maybe apart from the next country to start a manned space program....)
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#67
by
ZachS09
on 18 Oct, 2016 17:01
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Any word who the Backup crew are?
I think we have known that on the previous missions.
BTW: Jing Haipeng has been on 50% of the manned missions undertaken by China! That's a record that is unlikely to be matched (maybe apart from the next country to start a manned space program....)
No backup crew was given, but I would hypothesize Zhang Xiaoguang as backup Commander and Cai Xuzhe as backup Flight Engineer.
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#68
by
tonyq
on 21 Oct, 2016 15:01
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No backup crew was given, but I would hypothesize Zhang Xiaoguang as backup Commander and Cai Xuzhe as backup Flight Engineer.
In many ways, it doesn't really matter who the back-up crew were, other than as a point of curiousity! We now have ample evidence that there is no pattern to Chinese crew selections, other than that they start with a blank canvas for each mission, and select a crew, from those available. The requirement to have a veteran on each flight, seems to be holding, but being a back-up for a 'one-off' mission like this, doesn't mean much. The prime and back-ups, still go back in the mix, for the next round of assignments!
SZ-10 was an exception, as everything was planned in parallel with SZ-9, and it was always anticipated that both crews would fly.
BTW, I suspect that your crew is conjecture, rather than a hypothesis.
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#69
by
Satori
on 19 Nov, 2016 17:16
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#70
by
SMS
on 07 Dec, 2016 18:34
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#71
by
Phillip Clark
on 08 Dec, 2016 07:12
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Thank you for the video link SMS, but please bear in mind that the majority of people on here cannot understand Chinese. It would help if you explained who the lady is in the video - I am sure that we all recognised her from live TV coverage of flights, being in the control cenre - and what her role is at the control centre, etc please.
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#72
by
Olaf
on 08 Dec, 2016 07:30
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#73
by
SMS
on 27 Feb, 2017 18:41
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#74
by
Steven Pietrobon
on 01 Mar, 2017 07:33
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Seems like some kind of "hand pressing into clay" ceremony. Anybody want to put names to the pictures?
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#75
by
Olaf
on 07 Aug, 2017 15:07
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#76
by
Olaf
on 21 Aug, 2017 15:46
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#77
by
SMS
on 22 Aug, 2017 20:03
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#78
by
ZachS09
on 22 Aug, 2017 22:57
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I can identify the following:
BOTTOM ROW (left to right)
Chen Dong
Wang Yaping
Liu Wang
Liu Boming
Samantha Cristoforetti
Yang Liwei
[Unknown] (from China)
Matthias Maurer
[Unknown] (from ESA)
[Unknown] (from ESA)
Ye Guangfu
Zhang Xiaoguang
The other 11 taikonauts in the top row are unrecognizable to me. Who knows? Maybe they might consist of the third selection of taikonauts.
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#79
by
Olaf
on 23 Aug, 2017 07:32
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There 16 taikonauts took part.
I assume that this were the eight flown taikonauts from the 1998 group and the seven taikonauts from the 2010 group plus one unknown taikonaut(maybe one of the unflown taikonauts from the 1998 group).
Maybe someone can identify him.
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#80
by
Nordren
on 23 Aug, 2017 08:00
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I can identify the following: ...
Between Yang Liwei and Matthias Maurer is astronaut trainer Huang Weifen.
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#81
by
Steven Pietrobon
on 25 Aug, 2017 04:25
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#82
by
GELORD
on 25 Aug, 2017 18:12
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Huang Weifen, deputy research chief of the Astronaut Center of China, previously said that recruitment and training of China's third generation of astronauts will start this year.
The field of candidates will expand from Chinese Air Force pilots to include space industry engineers. All 21 of China's first and second generation astronauts were Air Force pilots.
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#83
by
Michael Cassutt
on 26 Aug, 2017 00:00
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I can identify the following:
BOTTOM ROW (left to right)
Chen Dong
Wang Yaping
Liu Wang
Liu Boming
Samantha Cristoforetti
Yang Liwei
[Unknown] (from China)
Matthias Maurer
[Unknown] (from ESA)
[Unknown] (from ESA)
Ye Guangfu
Zhang Xiaoguang
The other 11 taikonauts in the top row are unrecognizable to me. Who knows? Maybe they might consist of the third selection of taikonauts.
As noted upthread, the 3rd group has not yet been selected. There's no reason to assume that they second row has "11 taikonauts" or three or even any: those folks could all be training or support personnel.
And to Olaf, whose posts I enjoy, I don't think it's useful to conclude that the veterans taking part in this training are automatically active. They could have become training supervisors.
And further... some of these reports claim that there were "16 astronauts" taking part in these exercises, but it sure looks like nine total to me -- 7 China, 2 ESA.
Michael Cassutt
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#84
by
Olaf
on 26 Aug, 2017 07:17
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And further... some of these reports claim that there were "16 astronauts" taking part in these exercises, but it sure looks like nine total to me -- 7 China, 2 ESA.
They are talking about six groups with three participants, 16 Chinese and two Europeans.
The first group was shown here
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/894279066433585153.
The second and third group was not shown, or I have not seen them.
And the last three groups could be the nine astronauts shown on the picture above.
But this is only my suggestion.
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#85
by
tonyq
on 01 Sep, 2017 09:56
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As noted upthread, the 3rd group has not yet been selected. There's no reason to assume that they second row has "11 taikonauts" or three or even any: those folks could all be training or support personnel.
And to Olaf, whose posts I enjoy, I don't think it's useful to conclude that the veterans taking part in this training are automatically active. They could have become training supervisors.
And further... some of these reports claim that there were "16 astronauts" taking part in these exercises, but it sure looks like nine total to me -- 7 China, 2 ESA.
Michael Cassutt
I'd agree with Michael's comments. All the commentary, so far, from China, suggests that the third group has not yet been selected, so it would be wrong to conclude that any of the unidentified people are taikonauts.
Furthermore, the missing three men from the 2010 selection do not appear anywhere in the photos of the actual exercises, which implies that the Chinese have deliberately kept them out of sight and not involved them. Same with the unflown guys from 1998.
This was largely a PR stunt, and an exercise in practical collaboration, a rather than mission related training, and it seems the Chinese wheeled out all their 'big guns' to take part, but I doubt many of these participants are realistic contenders to fly to the CSS.
Finally, the 'missing' taikonaut in the sixteen may well have been an instructor. The Russians have done this for decades for both winter and water survival training exercises.
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#86
by
Olaf
on 12 Sep, 2017 12:52
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Here is an interview with Matthias Maurer
http://gbtimes.com/19572A short summary from him about this training
We had in total nine astronauts in training during the two weeks that we were there. My colleague and I, Samantha Cristoforetti, an Italian astronaut, were the two Europeans. And then we had seven Taikonauts, or Chinese astronauts. And in total we formed three teams of three each. For example, Yang Liwei was among team one with Wang Yaping, the second Chinese female astronaut and Zhang Xiaoguang. Team two was Liu Boming, Ye Guangfu and myself. And team three was Liu Wang, Chen Dong and Samantha Cristoforetti.
... Three other teams of astronauts also did this training before we were there, so in total there were 18 astronauts trained.
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#87
by
SMS
on 22 Jan, 2018 13:53
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#88
by
Steven Pietrobon
on 23 Jan, 2018 04:08
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#89
by
Olaf
on 23 Jan, 2018 17:53
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http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-01/22/c_136914753.htmNo space for China's stay-at-home taikonauts
First information of members of back-up crews of Shenzhou 11 and Shenzhou 10.
And first information of retirement dates for taikonauts.
Deng is a taikonaut who has never been to space. He was backup to commander Jing Haipeng in Shenzhou-11 mission.
Deng, 52, was a backup crew member for both Shenzhou-10 and Shenzhou-11 missions. Of China's first batch of 14 trainees for the space program, six never made it onto the crew, including Deng.
Five of his peers retired in 2014 without a space flight, making Deng the last man standing, with his feet on the ground.
"We should always remember their names -- Li Qinglong, Wu Jie, Chen Quan, Zhao Chuandong, and Pan Zhanchun," says Jing Haipeng.
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#90
by
Olaf
on 24 Jan, 2018 09:35
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There 16 taikonauts took part.
I assume that this were the eight flown taikonauts from the 1998 group and the seven taikonauts from the 2010 group plus one unknown taikonaut(maybe one of the unflown taikonauts from the 1998 group).
Maybe someone can identify him.
I think, I get it.
www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201801/22/WS5a6581f3a3106e7dcc135c31_2.htmlDeng Qingming and other astronauts perform a sea survival exercise in waters off the coast of Yantai in East China's Shandong province, Aug 17, 2017.
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#91
by
Satori
on 29 Jan, 2018 12:41
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#92
by
Olaf
on 14 Mar, 2018 07:35
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Google translation
THE CREWS ARE PREPARING FOR A FLIGHT TO THE NEW ORBITAL STATION OF THE PRC
The Taikonauts are training in a model of the Shenzhou spacecraft. In the photo from left to right: Chen Dong, Liu Wang and Liu Yang. Everyone has experience in space flight.
The link doesn´t work, but it is interesting.
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#93
by
SMS
on 27 May, 2018 10:29
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from:
https://www.weibo.com/6528178851/GixXzcixc?from=page_1005056528178851_profile&wvr=6&mod=weibotime&type=commentgoogle translation:
Our country has successfully organized the 2018 annual astronaut desert field survival training! On May 26th, 15 astronauts who participated in field survival training in the Badan Jaran Desert all returned to Beijing, marking the successful completion of the 19-day training. This is the first time that China has organized field training for astronaut in desert areas in the landing area.
It is understood that the astronaut desert field survival training is based on the annual training plan...
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#94
by
Olaf
on 28 May, 2018 07:11
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#95
by
SMS
on 28 May, 2018 13:54
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JIUQUAN, May 27 (Xinhua) -- Fifteen Chinese astronauts have just completed desert survival training deep in the Badain Jaran Desert near Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center in northwest China.
Organized by the Astronaut Center of China (ACC), the program was designed to prepare astronauts with the capacity to survive in the wilderness in the event their re-entry capsule lands off target.
Before venturing into space, astronauts have to survive in various hostile environments as a part of their technical training. Wilderness survival training is an important part of astronaut training in space agencies worldwide, leaving space mission candidates stranded at sea, in deserts, in jungles or on glaciers.
This is the latest survival training activity for Chinese astronauts after their sea survival training with two European astronauts in waters off the coast of Yantai in east China's Shandong Province in August 2017.
In the latest training program, each team, all wearing spacesuits, simulated an emergency landing scenario in which they needed to exit the capsule themselves, report their location and survive in the desert until rescue arrived 48 hours later.
In the desert, a land of extremes, the trainees had to handle the arid conditions, the daytime heat and cold at night.
The desert survival training tested the allocation of emergency supplies so their design can be improved in the future, said Huang Weifen, deputy chief designer at the ACC.
Chinese astronauts also completed emergency escape training on a launchpad in Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center, which has launched all manned spacecraft in the country.
The training programs were part of the comprehensive training of astronauts for China's space station.
China plans to start assembling its space station in space in 2020. It is scheduled to become fully operational around 2022.
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#96
by
zandr
on 11 Jan, 2020 07:00
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https://cn.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202001/09/WS5e16fef5a31099ab995f6581.htmltranslation
Yang Liwei: The new batch of astronauts includes army pilots, local engineers, and scientists
...He disclosed that the new batch of astronauts includes both military pilots and local engineers and scientists. It is expected that 17 to 18 people will be selected. He said that most of the selection work has now been completed, and it is expected that the selected personnel will report to the Astronaut Center in the first half of this year.
https://vk.com/chinaspaceflight
Europeans - Matthias Maurer and Samantha Cristoforetti in a joint training with the Taikonauts. Right Zhang Xiaoguang (张晓光) and Ye Guangfu (叶光富).
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#97
by
lucspace
on 13 Jan, 2020 10:15
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#98
by
Steven Pietrobon
on 13 Jan, 2020 12:09
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That link only gives this image.
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#99
by
lucspace
on 13 Jan, 2020 12:19
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#100
by
Olaf
on 13 Jan, 2020 15:56
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#101
by
Olaf
on 15 Jan, 2020 08:06
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#102
by
TALsite
on 05 May, 2020 18:50
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Bumped with new Info from other thread:
https://twitter.com/aj_fi/status/1257644667258261510
Crew members for the first crewed flight to Tianhe core module have been selected. Third round of astronaut selection to be announced soon.
A new flight opportunity for Jing Haipeng?
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#103
by
TALsite
on 05 May, 2020 18:52
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#104
by
tonyq
on 06 May, 2020 14:54
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Bumped with new Info from other thread:
https://twitter.com/aj_fi/status/1257644667258261510
Crew members for the first crewed flight to Tianhe core module have been selected. Third round of astronaut selection to be announced soon.
A new flight opportunity for Jing Haipeng?
Based on previous practice, going back to 2003, I'm sure that what this really means, is they've selected a pool of three crews, from which a prime and back-up crew will be chosen, much nearer to the flight.
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#105
by
TALsite
on 01 Oct, 2020 15:49
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#106
by
TALsite
on 09 Sep, 2022 13:54
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Cross post:
Shenzhou-14 astronauts conduct their first spacewalk
This is a capture from the video.
I noticed that the feitian's backpacks are signed.
Till now the blue Feitian was weared by Tang Hongbo, Liu Buoming and Chen Dong.
The yellow one by Wang Yaping, Ye Guangfu and Liu Yang.
I don't read Chinese but comparing with the signed envelope that revealed the identities of the second group it seems that we have discovered a new chinese space tradition: the taikonauts sign their Feitians prior their spacewalk.
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#107
by
TALsite
on 09 Sep, 2022 13:56
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As I bumped this thread, I'll post an image that shows the unassigned chinese taikonauts.
The third group was selected on Oct.2020, so probably (if they follow the russian pattern) they will finish their training, and qualification exams, on Oct.2022 (+/-) , so they're probably out of the selection for Shenzhou-15.
They were still unidentified.
https://twitter.com/CNSpaceflight/status/1539974697969823745Explanation:
"Days ago" means days transcurred from their last spaceflight return.
Edited:To add the explanation, and fix my English mistakes...
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#108
by
TALsite
on 04 Oct, 2022 19:04
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China Manned Space Agency is responsible for the selection.
Currently the 3rd batch of 18 taikonauts are being trained.
China has 21 taikonauts in total from the first and the second generations. 14 of them have taken part in 9 missions, including the latest #Shenzhou14 mission.
https://twitter.com/wulei2020/status/1576740798468538370.-.-.-.-
It seems that China is starting the recruitment of the 4th group of taikonauts.
The second group was selected in 2010 and maybe we will discover the portraits, DOB and names of the seven of the recruited in 2022.
So being 18 recruited on the third batch in 2020, maybe will know their identities, portraits and DOB around 2050...
Silly secrecy policy...
Image captured from the video
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#109
by
FutureSpaceTourist
on 11 Jun, 2024 05:32
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https://twitter.com/cnsawatcher/status/1800380654443536506The 4th batch of astronaut selection has been completed by CNSA/CMS. 10 candidates were chosen, including 8 pilots and 2 payload specialists (1 each from Hong Kong and Macao). They will now undergo astronaut research and training. Full HD:
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#110
by
FutureSpaceTourist
on 11 Jun, 2024 05:32
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#111
by
JSz
on 11 Jun, 2024 07:14
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"...including 8 pilots" - presumably they will be the ones to fly to the moon
.
