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#780 by Jim on 30 Nov, 2011 15:51
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It's "Crazy Question Wednesday" time:
It was recently reported that the X-37B was being kept in-orbit past its' planned return to Earth. We do not know the current capabilities of this technology test-bed, but is it anywhere near PG? Or could it be maneuvered to get there? I wonder if they are using PG to do some test monitoring of some kind or some test maneuvers..etc.?
it has been asked many times. Read the thread.
There are many more spacecraft up there, why hasn't anyone asked whether HST, SPOT, or Digitalglobe can do it. Why X-37?
There is a far better operational system than any of those, as far as orbital imaging of spacecraft.
AMOS -
#781 by kevin-rf on 30 Nov, 2011 16:03
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AMOS
Well there was that persistent rumor before contact that it was sun oriented. That or a similar system is the only way I can think of determining that.
Btw. Both the shuttle and skylab where imaged at different points by NRO on orbit assets. A dig with the search function in the historical threads should turn them up. I would suggest the following terms, KH-11 Shuttle, and SkyLab Gambit. -
#782 by ChrisC on 30 Nov, 2011 16:22
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Took that rotation of a color version, did a Gaussian blur, played with the levels to the minimum where the dish would be visible and got this....
I think at least one person here has already made the mistake of confusing this with actual orbital imaging, so I'll point out that this "blurry photo" is docmordrid's attempt to simulate what a photo of P-G would look like if photographed in that orientation. He took a perfectly clear photo/graphic and DEGRADED it to create that blurry "photo".
I'm just waiting for this to pop up in the media as an actual photo, like Ralf's.
EDIT a couple days later: thanks doc for clarifying your post -
#783 by anik on 30 Nov, 2011 16:37
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http://twitter.com/#!/esaoperations
Orbit-raising commands sent last night via ESA's #Perth station to operate #PhobosGrunt thrusters were set for later execution but results were negative and Russian controllers report no resulting change in #PhobosGrunt orbit seen #estrack #esoc...
ESA's 15m #Maspalomas station transmitted a set of Russian commands to #PhobosGrunt at ~14:35GMT today aiming to turn its transmitter ON
As #Maspalomas modifications had yet to be completed, available send power was v. low. As expected, commanding did not succeed #phobosgrunt
Thruster control commands will also be sent to #phobosgrunt via ESA's #Perth station tonight. However, these will be interleaved with commands to activate the downlink (radio transmitter) so as to have evidence that the commands were accepted by #PhobosGrunt
#PhobosGrunt controllers will send a new set of commands for upload via #Maspalomas station on 01.12 when station mods will be complete
Commands to be sent via #Maspalomas 01.12 (~12:47GMT) will instruct #PhobosGrunt in real time to activate the downlink & send telemetry -
#784 by astroRyan on 30 Nov, 2011 16:51
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Two new frames, and more information (in English) from Ralf Vandebergh in thread below (scroll to bottom):
http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10631&start=10635
Think I found a match to Ralf's latest image.
Ralf's:
http://freeimagehosting.nl/pics/af4c8ee866db6ddcb195d97c3d958aac.jpg
Closeout image:
http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/nk/forum-pic/FG/Phobos-Grunt-photo5-hi.jpg
Note that the closeout image was taken prior to stacking onto the Fregat, so the tanks are not shown here.
Anyone care to speculate? Stuck solar array? -
#785 by Michael J on 30 Nov, 2011 18:00
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From the Russian Space Web: ESA attempts to contact Phobos Grunt from the Canary Islands yield no response.
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/phobos_grunt_launch.html#11_30 -
#786 by Moskit on 30 Nov, 2011 18:08
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BTW - Canary Islands station is not modified yet, as the Australian one is. It wasn't expected to be success yet.
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#787 by bolun on 30 Nov, 2011 19:11
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From http://twitter.com/#!/esaoperationsQuote
esaoperations ESA Operations
@ @The_Littl_Thing: Night of 30/11-01/12 via #Perth & daytime 01/12 via #Maspalomas
17 minutes ago -
#788 by Comga on 30 Nov, 2011 19:30
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It's "Crazy Question Wednesday" time:
It was recently reported that the X-37B was being kept in-orbit past its' planned return to Earth. We do not know the current capabilities of this technology test-bed, but is it anywhere near PG? Or could it be maneuvered to get there? I wonder if they are using PG to do some test monitoring of some kind or some test maneuvers..etc.?
it has been asked many times. Read the thread.
There are many more spacecraft up there, why hasn't anyone asked whether HST, SPOT, or Digitalglobe can do it. Why X-37?
There is a far better operational system than any of those, as far as orbital imaging of spacecraft.
Yes, but we will NEVER see those images, or be told what has been learned from them. That's WAY too highly classified. So for all intents and purposes, it being the best is of no use here.
Edit: Of course, Jim is correct. That what AMOS does. I was thinking of an orbiting asset. -
#789 by jimvela on 30 Nov, 2011 19:49
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Yes, but we will NEVER see those images, or be told what has been learned from them. That's WAY too highly classified. So for all intents and purposes, it being the best is of no use here.
Edit: Of course, Jim is correct. That what AMOS does. I was thinking of an orbiting asset.
I was also thinking of an orbiting asset, and yes of course Jim is right about AMOS- as usual. -
#790 by docmordrid on 01 Dec, 2011 03:50
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I just updated that post with a big, red warning that it's a simulation.Took that rotation of a color version, did a Gaussian blur, played with the levels to the minimum where the dish would be visible and got this....
>
..this "blurry photo" is docmordrid's attempt to simulate what a photo of P-G would look like if photographed in that orientation. He took a perfectly clear photo/graphic and DEGRADED it to create that blurry "photo".
I'm just waiting for this to pop up in the media as an actual photo, like Ralf's. -
#791 by anik on 01 Dec, 2011 10:46
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http://twitter.com/#!/esaoperations
Radio uplink slots from ESA's #Maspalomas (Spain) station set today for 12:47GMT & again ~3 hrs later #PhobosGrunt
No results seen from last night's radio uplink from #Perth stn #PhobosGrunt #estrack -
#792 by Michael J on 01 Dec, 2011 11:40
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New photos of PG with interpretation from Ralf Vandebergh
http://freeimagehosting.nl/pics/0d33879a47831d9eb964b621b79da1be.jpg -
#793 by ChileVerde on 01 Dec, 2011 12:33
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Latest predicted entry date last week in December
http://satobs.org/seesat/Nov-2011/0381.html
That may be due to a glitch in the data: Space Track had just issued two TLEs with an identical epoch but noticeably different mean motions and eccentricities. I suspect that confused SatEvo, which had been holding pretty steady on mid-January for several days. We'll see over the next day or two.
Indeed, the projected decay is now returning to mid-January. The last five days of SatEvo decay projections are given below; each line corresponds to a separate orbital element set obtained from Space Track. Epoch is the epoch of the element set in YYDDD.dddddd format, Decay is the SatEvo predicted time of decay in the same format and (Date) is the translation of Decay into the civil calendar.
Epoch Decay (Date)
11330.150093 12010.337116 (2012 January 10)
11330.324934 12010.674417 (2012 January 10)
11330.816053 12011.778253 (2012 January 11)
11331.190854 12013.141444 (2012 January 13)
11331.547234 12016.169592 (2012 January 16)
11331.812884 12017.363184 (2012 January 17)
11332.142905 12017.449242 (2012 January 17)
11332.541782 12016.147182 (2012 January 16)
11332.867218 12016.255881 (2012 January 16)
11333.127457 12016.448504 (2012 January 16)
11333.250965 12016.267619 (2012 January 16)
11333.250965 12016.430679 (2012 January 16)
11333.740904 12016.535829 (2012 January 16)
11334.006667 12015.448941 (2012 January 15)
11334.123038 11362.713064 (2011 December 28)
11334.535081 12009.550753 (2012 January 9)
11334.801352 12009.898798 (2012 January 9)
11335.182059 12010.702153 (2012 January 10) -
#794 by ChileVerde on 01 Dec, 2011 13:35
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For no particular reason, I made a plot of PG's perigee since the first couple of element sets. The part to the right of Day 326 is what is being called normal decay behavior and the part to the left, well, isn't.
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#795 by alk3997 on 01 Dec, 2011 14:14
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New photos of PG with interpretation from Ralf Vandebergh
http://freeimagehosting.nl/pics/0d33879a47831d9eb964b621b79da1be.jpg
I still see one array deployed and one folded. On the left image, the left array looks extended out. The right array looks like it is downward in it's pre-launch direction. It's that dark "appendage" that looks like it connects the two major sections on the right (not any of the lighter shaded items).
I'll be the first to admit that this may be all tricks of light and resolution but I see the same thing with each new image.
Besides causing a power issue, a non-deployed array would also change the cg of the spacecraft.
Andy -
#796 by JimO on 01 Dec, 2011 14:41
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[rant mode -- ON]
Well, today is the birthday of the new "Russian Air-Space Defense Forces", and the unintentional theme of the day, thanks to the on-going Fobos-Grunt crisis, is how ignorant and impotent the new command already is, and how the 'new thinking' and growing candor that characterized the fall of the USSR has evaporated away in the newly-revealed Soviet-style stonewalling instincts of top space program managers.
http://www.interfax.com/newsinf.asp?pg=4&id=291436
http://rt.com/politics/space-forces-military-russia-625/
http://rusnovosti.ru/news/175220/
When asked about Fobos-Grunt, the new CinC, LtGen Oleg Ostapenko, said it really wasn't his job but he did know where the probe was -- he just wouldn't tell anyone, so they had to use American orbital tracking data. When asked when it would reenter, his answer: they always do, sometime or other.
And how about Air-Space Defense Forces optical sensors and telescope cameras, one might ask [but nobody did]. His answer would have been, maybe, well, we're relying on talented Dutch amateur astronomers, as an economy measure. And how about interesting and suggestive orbital evolution trends with obvious secular changes, suggesting some spacecraft activity? Not his job. How about DEFENDING [as in, say, "Air-Space Defense"] the motherland from threats from space objects, again, apparently, not HIS job. Threats? We don't see any threats!
The Russian press continues to be full of news stories about the mystery of Fobos-Grunt and its fate. With rare exception, those stories are sourced to ESA spokesmen, to 'Chinese experts', to Western observers appearing on this thread, to 'inside sources' who are never named [and often turn out to be wrong], to courageous private bloggers in Russia, and to a highly sanitized history of past space debacles. And too often the stories are from Soviet-era apparatchniks who fall back on the stock-in-trade Stalinist response to setbacks: "Wreckers! Saboteurs! Enemy actions!"
And Roskosmos? Lavochkin? IKI? What can you tell us about....?
"Fobos-Grunt?" they respond. "Fobos-Grunt who?"
IMHO, this irresponsible and shameful official Russian response to this crisis is burning down more than a decade's hard-earned, grudgingly acknowledged growth of international trust [in Russia -- the rest of us are grown ups] that a generation of space workers in the US, Russia, and their awesome international partners have hoped for -- and for many, have focused on as the greatest world benefit of such international cooperation.
The good will engendered by this bold mission, that the world hoped would succeed, and the eager brainpower turning towards eager discussions of alternate mission profiles or to emergency response and rescue options, is slowly, reluctantly morphing into baffled frustration, impatient exasperation, growing mockery and derision, and worse.
A lot more than just one lost space probe is falling in flames as we, horrified and more-and-more hopeless in our helplessness, are watching.
[rant mode -- OFF]
Let's keep doing what WE are doing, to help chronicle this process so future generations can learn from it the lessons that the program leaders seem to have forgotten.
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#797 by InvalidAttitude on 01 Dec, 2011 15:16
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What if the other solar panel is completely missing? That would explain why the Russian officials playing dead and silent with the on-going rescue efforts, they know its already game-over.
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#798 by SiberianTiger on 01 Dec, 2011 15:58
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What if the other solar panel is completely missing? That would explain why the Russian officials playing dead and silent with the on-going rescue efforts, they know its already game-over.
Did you hear what Mr. Medvedev said? He said that responsible for failures in space will be punished. I think this is a pretty good incentive to continue restoration attempts till the slightest chance is there. -
#799 by kevin-rf on 01 Dec, 2011 16:01
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What if the other solar panel is completely missing? That would explain why the Russian officials playing dead and silent with the on-going rescue efforts, they know its already game-over.
And why had no one seen it yet? No, the only objects catalog'd where the probe and the second stage, which I believe has already decayed.