Author Topic: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure  (Read 38868 times)

Offline anik

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Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« on: 05/27/2006 03:52 PM »
Dnepr rocket will launch BelKA, Baumanets, UniSat 4 and many other satellites from Baikonur cosmodrome on June 28...

According to Novosti kosmonavtiki website, in the middle of June BelKA should be fueled by propellants on site 31... Before a fuelling this satellite should be tested in vacuum chamber... Also, solar batteries should be installed on BelKA...

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - June 28
« Reply #1 on: 06/05/2006 08:53 AM »
According to Novosti kosmonavtiki website, Baumanets satellite has arrived on Baikonur aboard An-26 aircraft on June 3...

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - June 28
« Reply #2 on: 06/05/2006 03:51 PM »
According to http://littonlab.atl.calpoly.edu/pages/missions/dnepr-launch-1.php Dnepr rocket will be launched at 19:39:11 UTC on June 28...

"14 CubeSats from 10 different universities and 1 private company will participate in a CubeSat launch coordinated by California Polytechnic State University on June 2006. The picosatellites will be launched on a Russian DNEPR launch vehicle. The CubeSats will be contained in 5 P-PODs, which will take care of interfacing with the launch vehicle and provide the deployment mechanism.

All the P-PODs have been built and the release mechanisms ordered. An engineering unit of the P-POD went through qualification testing in June 2005. The P-POD seemed to hold up well throughout the full NASA worst-case launch profile.

All satellites have arrived to Cal Poly for integration. All satellites are ready for delivery to the launch site."

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - June 28
« Reply #3 on: 06/06/2006 07:16 PM »
According to Novosti kosmonavtiki website, Baumanets satellite (weight - 92 kg) was unloaded from container on June 5... Also BelKA satellite was successfully tested in vacuum chamber recently... Its fuelling is planned on June 13-14...

Images (below) of preparation of BelKA satellite are from http://www.federalspace.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=1563

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - June 28
« Reply #4 on: 06/08/2006 08:16 PM »
According to Novosti kosmonavtiki website, solar batteries were installed to BelKA satellite and tests of systems of Baumanets satellite were begun on June 7...

Offline anik

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RE: Dnepr launch - June 28
« Reply #5 on: 06/11/2006 02:01 PM »
Images (below) of installation of solar batteries onto BelKA satellite are from http://www.federalspace.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=1567

Offline astropl

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RE: Dnepr launch - June 28
« Reply #6 on: 06/13/2006 09:42 PM »
Quote
anik - 27/5/2006  5:39 PM

Dnepr rocket will launch BelKA, Baumanets, UniSat 4 and many other satellites from Baikonur cosmodrome on June 28...

New launch date! According to Novosti Kosmonavtiki launch is postponed to beginning of third decade of July. Problems with launcher computer: http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/news.shtml
Waldemar Zwierzchlejski (astropl)
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Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - June 28
« Reply #7 on: 06/15/2006 04:16 PM »
Details about the reason of a delay of this launch...

According to http://www.itar-tass.com/level2.html?NewsID=10108426&PageNum=0 (in Russian), there was a failure at digital control system of Dnepr rocket... Specialists have replaced the blocks of this system, but it has not helped... Therefore they have decided to replace Dnepr rocket... The changing of rocket should last five-six days... After that systems of new Dnepr rocket will be tested...

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - June 28
« Reply #8 on: 06/17/2006 01:57 PM »

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - June 28
« Reply #9 on: 07/05/2006 09:14 AM »
According to Novosti kosmonavtiki website, the fuelling of engine of BelKA satellite by propellants was begun on July 4 on site 31...

Satellites in Storage - 1:25 AM, Jul 05 2006
http://littonlab.atl.calpoly.edu/pages/missions/dnepr-launch-1/updates.php

"The satellites are officially in a storage facility in Baikonur. They will be brought out of storage around July 12th to begin integration with the launch vehicle."

According to http://littonlab.atl.calpoly.edu/pages/missions/dnepr-launch-1/satellite-status.php Dnepr rocket will be launched at 13:49:11 UTC on July 26...

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - June 28
« Reply #10 on: 07/05/2006 07:21 PM »
Quote
anik - 5/7/2006  1:01 PM

According to http://littonlab.atl.calpoly.edu/pages/missions/dnepr-launch-1/satellite-status.php Dnepr rocket will be launched at 13:49:11 UTC on July 26...

Reliable MCC-M expert has told me today that the launch of Dnepr rocket is planned at 18:44 UTC... Obviously 13:49:11 UTC is wrong time...

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - June 28
« Reply #11 on: 07/12/2006 05:52 PM »
The fuelling of engine of BelKA satellite by propellants was successfully finished recently... According to last information from MCC-M expert, Dnepr rocket should be launched at 19:43 UTC...

Offline jacqmans

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RE: Dnepr launch - June 28
« Reply #12 on: 07/15/2006 06:36 PM »

Offline meiza

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Re: Dnepr launch - June 28
« Reply #13 on: 07/15/2006 06:43 PM »
Strelka and Belka were two dogs that were sent to space and returned succesfully, is the name some homage to them?

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - June 28
« Reply #14 on: 07/15/2006 08:02 PM »
Quote
meiza - 15/7/2006  10:30 PM

is the name some homage to them?

No, "BelKA" means a "Belorusskiy Kosmicheskiy Apparat" (in Russian) or Belarus spacecraft (in English)... Belka means a squirrel also...

According to http://www.federalspace.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=1650 (in Russian), Baumanets, UniSat 4 and CubeSats satellites were installed onto space head part of Dnepr rocket on July 14... Today BelKA satellite was also installed onto it...

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - June 28
« Reply #15 on: 07/17/2006 08:16 PM »
The info from Novosti kosmonavtiki forum: the space head part, which contains satellites, was fully assembled on July 17... It will be installed onto Dnepr rocket on July 19...

Offline jacqmans

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RE: Dnepr launch - June 28
« Reply #16 on: 07/20/2006 12:21 PM »

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - June 28
« Reply #17 on: 07/20/2006 07:45 PM »
According to http://www.federalspace.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=1662 (in Russian), the space head part with satellites was installed onto Dnepr rocket on site 109 on July 20...

Offline STS Tony

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #18 on: 07/26/2006 01:51 AM »
Is there a webcast for this?

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #19 on: 07/26/2006 08:56 AM »
Quote
STS Tony - 26/7/2006  5:38 AM

Is there a webcast for this?

No, I am sure...

Offline Jester

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #20 on: 07/26/2006 09:56 AM »
Quote
anik - 26/7/2006  10:43 AM

Quote
STS Tony - 26/7/2006  5:38 AM

Is there a webcast for this?

No, I am sure...

anik,the axis cam seems to be up and running, but the password for it doesn't work, can you translate ? my russian is a bit malinki

http://coopi.khrunichev.ru/video.htm

Offline Jester

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #21 on: 07/26/2006 09:56 AM »
Login: KazSat     pass: LaunchKS
from the roscosmos site doesn't work :(

Offline Terry Rocket

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #22 on: 07/26/2006 12:23 PM »
All the russians have gone to sleep ;)

Offline Jester

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #23 on: 07/26/2006 03:55 PM »
Local Launch time 23:43:00

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #24 on: 07/26/2006 05:55 PM »
Jester, the link http://coopi.khrunichev.ru/video.htm has worked live for KazSat launch (June 17, 2006) and will be worked live again for KOMPSat-2 launch (July 28, 2006)... This link will not work live for today's launch, because this launch does not relate to Khrunichev enterprise...

Offline Jester

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #25 on: 07/26/2006 06:02 PM »
Quote
anik - 26/7/2006  7:42 PM

Jester, the link http://coopi.khrunichev.ru/video.htm has worked live for KazSat launch (June 17, 2006) and will be worked live again for KOMPSat-2 launch (July 28, 2006)... This link will not work live for today's launch, because this launch does not relate to Khrunichev enterprise...

Anik,

thanks for that, it was just strange as it worked this afternoon, but now it has stopped, so I had hopes that maybe they were doing something

Offline jacqmans

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #26 on: 07/26/2006 06:20 PM »
PRESS-RELEASE
on prelaunch processing of BelKA earth remote
sensing satellite for the Republic of Belarus


Jule 26 2006. Baikonur cosmodrome
Final operations are being performed at Baikonur cosmodrome to prepare Belorussian spacecraft BelKA, the earth remote sensing satellite, for launch.
Spacecraft BelKA has been developed by S.P. Korolev Rocket and Space Corporation Energia using the Yamal space bus.
The BelKA is designed to receive earth surface area images within both visible and infrared spectral bands with a high spatial resolution, as well as transmit the generated images digitally to ground receiving stations.
Dnepr launch vehicle is to place this spacecraft into solar-synchronous orbit at the altitude of 511 km and with an inclination of 97,4 degrees.
Ground receiving stations located in Moscow, Minsk and Khanty-Mansiysk will be involved in reception, storage and processing of the downlinked information.
Mission Control Center located in the city of Korolev, Moscow Region, will be responsible for missions control.
 

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #27 on: 07/26/2006 08:29 PM »
According to http://lenta.ru/news/2006/07/26/liftoff/ (in Russian), Dnepr rocket is launched on time!... :)

Online jcm

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #28 on: 07/26/2006 08:39 PM »
Calpoly site reporting failure...

Which satellites were actually on board? Belka, Baumanets, Unisat-4, and some cubesats (3 PPODs?)
Tsenki site reported also PICPOT (Turin), while earlier messages talked about Almasat, Palamede,
JAESAT, Saudisat not listed on Tsenki.
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Offline astropl

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #29 on: 07/26/2006 09:05 PM »
Quote
jcm - 26/7/2006  10:26 PM

Calpoly site reporting failure...

Which satellites were actually on board? Belka, Baumanets, Unisat-4, and some cubesats (3 PPODs?)
Tsenki site reported also PICPOT (Turin), while earlier messages talked about Almasat, Palamede,
JAESAT, Saudisat not listed on Tsenki.

On T+86 seconds occurred emergency turning off of the engines of the carrier rocket - info from http://rian.ru/technology/cosmos/20060727/51890236.html
On board was:
BelKA-1
Baumanets
UniSat-4
PICPOT
and CubeSats:
AeroCube-1
PolySat 1
PolySat 2
ICEcube-1
ICEcube-2
ION
HAUSAT-1
KUTESat
Merope
Ncube-1
Rincon 1
Sacred
SEEDS
Voyager
Waldemar Zwierzchlejski (astropl)
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Offline Chris Bergin

RE: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #30 on: 07/26/2006 09:16 PM »
Damn :(

Offline Jim

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #31 on: 07/26/2006 09:19 PM »
That is the risk of using converted ICBM's for space launch.  The US was burned by the Atlas E a few times and so the Atlas H was developed  for better reliability.  Smallsats have to realize that some of the lower cost LV's have higher risks.  Working that issue as we speak.  Trying to find out if there would be more XXXX spacecraft to fly if there was cheaper LV's with higher risk.

Online MKremer

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #32 on: 07/26/2006 09:24 PM »
The converted Russian ICBMs are cheaper, but you have to risk not all that much better than a 50/50 chance of mission success.
(You pays your money, you takes your chances.)

Offline Chris Bergin

RE: Dnepr launch - July 26: failure.
« Reply #33 on: 07/26/2006 09:28 PM »
http://polysat.calpoly.edu/DNEPR-BelkA.wmv - video of the launch from the CalPoly site.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #34 on: 07/26/2006 09:31 PM »
Quote
astropl - 26/7/2006  3:52 PM

On T+86 seconds occurred emergency turning off of the engines of the carrier rocket - info from http://rian.ru/technology/cosmos/20060727/51890236.html

This report,  which says that the failure occurred during the second stage burn, doesn't quite make sense.  The first stage is supposed to burn for 130 seconds, followed by a 190 second-long second stage burn.

Cal Poly also said that the first stage completed its burn, so perhaps the failure occurred 86 seconds into the second stage burn.

First R-36M2 failure since 1988.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline jacqmans

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #35 on: 07/26/2006 09:36 PM »
Quote
MKremer - 26/7/2006  11:11 PM

The converted Russian ICBMs are cheaper, but you have to risk not all that much better than a 50/50 chance of mission success.
(You pays your money, you takes your chances.)

Makes you wonder if we ever had a war in which those ICBM's were used and launched, and they failed.....


Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #36 on: 07/26/2006 09:42 PM »
Quote
MKremer - 26/7/2006  4:11 PM

The converted Russian ICBMs are cheaper, but you have to risk not all that much better than a 50/50 chance of mission success.
(You pays your money, you takes your chances.)

Not quite that bad.  This was the first Dnepr failure in seven orbital attempts.  It was the first R-36M2 failure since 1988.

Six out of seven is the same result provided to date by the U.S. Taurus launcher, which is based on the MX ICBM first stage.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline Jester

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #37 on: 07/26/2006 09:43 PM »
Quote
edkyle99 - 26/7/2006  11:18 PM

Quote
astropl - 26/7/2006  3:52 PM

On T+86 seconds occurred emergency turning off of the engines of the carrier rocket - info from http://rian.ru/technology/cosmos/20060727/51890236.html

This report,  which says that the failure occurred during the second stage burn, doesn't quite make sense.  The first stage is supposed to burn for 130 seconds, followed by a 190 second-long second stage burn.

Cal Poly also said that the first stage completed its burn, so perhaps the failure occurred 86 seconds into the second stage burn.

First R-36M2 failure since 1988.

 - Ed Kyle

According to federalspace.ru first stage sep. for dnepr is at 109 sec.
Payload fairing jettison at 276 sec.


Offline Satori

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #38 on: 07/26/2006 10:23 PM »
There is not much to see, but here it his the launch video from http://cubesat.calpoly.edu/ at http://polysat.calpoly.edu/DNEPR-BelkA.wmv and the telecom conversation at http://polysat.calpoly.edu/telecon.mp3

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #39 on: 07/26/2006 10:24 PM »
Quote
Jester - 26/7/2006  4:30 PM

Quote
edkyle99 - 26/7/2006  11:18 PM

Quote
astropl - 26/7/2006  3:52 PM

On T+86 seconds occurred emergency turning off of the engines of the carrier rocket - info from http://rian.ru/technology/cosmos/20060727/51890236.html

This report,  which says that the failure occurred during the second stage burn, doesn't quite make sense.  The first stage is supposed to burn for 130 seconds, followed by a 190 second-long second stage burn.

Cal Poly also said that the first stage completed its burn, so perhaps the failure occurred 86 seconds into the second stage burn.

First R-36M2 failure since 1988.

 - Ed Kyle

According to federalspace.ru first stage sep. for dnepr is at 109 sec.
Payload fairing jettison at 276 sec.


Hmmm.

This site:  http://www.russianspaceweb.com/dnepr.html
shows something closer to the 130 seconds.  www.astronautix.com also shows 130 seconds.  

But I do get 102 seconds when I divide vacuum thrust (461.2 tonnes) by vacuum specific impulse (318 seconds) to get 1.45 tonnes per second burn rate, and then divide 147.9 tonnes (the reported first stage propellant mass) by the burn rate.

Hmmm.

- Ed Kyle

Offline astropl

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #40 on: 07/26/2006 10:28 PM »
Quote
edkyle99 - 26/7/2006  11:18 PM

Quote
astropl - 26/7/2006  3:52 PM

On T+86 seconds occurred emergency turning off of the engines of the carrier rocket - info from http://rian.ru/technology/cosmos/20060727/51890236.html

This report,  which says that the failure occurred during the second stage burn, doesn't quite make sense.  The first stage is supposed to burn for 130 seconds, followed by a 190 second-long second stage burn.

Cal Poly also said that the first stage completed its burn, so perhaps the failure occurred 86 seconds into the second stage burn.

First R-36M2 failure since 1988.

 - Ed Kyle

http://www.gazeta.ru/lenta.shtml?505715#505715

Altavista online translation:

"Carrier rocket "Dnepr" with several satellites fell in 25 km to the south from the launch pad..."..."First stage did not go away in proper time, did not finish about ten seconds; therefore occurred the emergency switching of engine...".
Waldemar Zwierzchlejski (astropl)
http://lk.astronautilus.pl

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #41 on: 07/26/2006 10:44 PM »
Quote
edkyle99 - 26/7/2006  5:29 PM

Not quite that bad.  This was the first Dnepr failure in seven orbital attempts.  It was the first R-36M2 failure since 1988.

Six out of seven is the same result provided to date by the U.S. Taurus launcher, which is based on the MX ICBM first stage.

 - Ed Kyle

Taurus is not equivilent to the MX.  The upperstages are from the Pegasus and the later launches used a Castor 120 instead of the MX first stage.

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Offline Chris Bergin

RE: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #43 on: 07/26/2006 11:02 PM »
Now we hear it was the first stage, not the second stage that failed.

25Km downrange. 10 seconds before the end of the first stage burn.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #44 on: 07/27/2006 01:23 AM »
Quote
Jim - 26/7/2006  5:31 PM

Quote
edkyle99 - 26/7/2006  5:29 PM

Not quite that bad.  This was the first Dnepr failure in seven orbital attempts.  It was the first R-36M2 failure since 1988.

Six out of seven is the same result provided to date by the U.S. Taurus launcher, which is based on the MX ICBM first stage.

 - Ed Kyle

Taurus is not equivilent to the MX.  The upperstages are from the Pegasus and the later launches used a Castor 120 instead of the MX first stage.

Correct.  Not equivalent, but "based on" in that it uses essentially the same first stage motor as MX (Castor 120 was/is a "commercial" version of the MX first stage motor).  Athena fit into the category too, when it was still flying.  I tend to group launchers into broad categories based on their first, or core, stage.  In this case, for example, the first stage accounts for about 75% of the total Taurus liftoff weight.  

 - Ed Kyle

Offline guidanceisgo

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #45 on: 07/27/2006 04:38 AM »
Orbital's Minotaur I uses the first 2 stages of the Minuteman II.  It has a pretty good record.

Offline edkyle99

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RE: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #46 on: 07/27/2006 01:51 PM »
Quote
Chris Bergin - 26/7/2006  5:49 PM

Now we hear it was the first stage, not the second stage that failed.

25Km downrange. 10 seconds before the end of the first stage burn.

Here is a different report from GAZETA.KZ (Kazakhstan today)

http://eng.gazeta.kz/art.asp?aid=78390

It says that the rocket crashed "in the 73 second of the flight ... at a distance 189.6 km from the launching site, 6 km North-East of Tagai winter pasture".  

The distance part of this report sounds more accurate than 25 km for a high thrust/weight rocket like Dnepr that flew under power for more than a minute.  I don't know what to make of the "crashed in the 73 second of the flight" part.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline edkyle99

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RE: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #47 on: 07/27/2006 02:42 PM »
Quote
edkyle99 - 27/7/2006  8:38 AM

Quote
Chris Bergin - 26/7/2006  5:49 PM

Now we hear it was the first stage, not the second stage that failed.

25Km downrange. 10 seconds before the end of the first stage burn.

Here is a different report from GAZETA.KZ (Kazakhstan today)

http://eng.gazeta.kz/art.asp?aid=78390

It says that the rocket crashed "in the 73 second of the flight ... at a distance 189.6 km from the launching site, 6 km North-East of Tagai winter pasture".  

The distance part of this report sounds more accurate than 25 km for a high thrust/weight rocket like Dnepr that flew under power for more than a minute.  I don't know what to make of the "crashed in the 73 second of the flight" part.

 - Ed Kyle

O.K.  Here is something that makes sense.  A BBC report at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/5219468.stm
said that the failure began at 74 seconds, triggering the emergency shut down at 86 seconds.  The actual "crash", of course, wouldn't have happened until perhaps 3-4 minutes or so after liftoff.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline aero313

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #48 on: 07/27/2006 02:50 PM »
Quote
edkyle99 - 26/7/2006  5:29 PM

Not quite that bad.  This was the first Dnepr failure in seven orbital attempts.  It was the first R-36M2 failure since 1988.

Six out of seven is the same result provided to date by the U.S. Taurus launcher, which is based on the MX ICBM first stage.

 - Ed Kyle

Not entirely true.  Taurus comes in two versions, a DoD version that uses the first stage motor from the Peacekeeper and a commercial version that uses the Thiokol Castor 120.  The one mission that failed used the Castor 120, however the failure was in the TVC of the Orion 50 motor, which is completely unrelated to any ICBM-derived parts.  It's confusion like this that causes misinformation and improper conclusions.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #49 on: 07/27/2006 03:00 PM »
Quote
guidanceisgo - 26/7/2006  11:25 PM

Orbital's Minotaur I uses the first 2 stages of the Minuteman II.  It has a pretty good record.

Minotaur I has only flown five times without failure, but Minuteman 2, by some accounts, has only failed twice in 192 flights.  

The MX missile, which is also slated to be converted into a "Minotaur" launcher after retirement, has logged one failure in 51 test flights.  I should mention that none of the three Taurus/Athena failures involved the MX-derived first stage.  The single MX failure in 2001 was caused by a failure of the first stage to separate after it had completed its burn.  The second stage ignited while the first stage was still attached!

 - Ed Kyle

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #50 on: 07/27/2006 03:17 PM »
Quote
aero313 - 27/7/2006  9:37 AM

Quote
edkyle99 - 26/7/2006  5:29 PM

Not quite that bad.  This was the first Dnepr failure in seven orbital attempts.  It was the first R-36M2 failure since 1988.

Six out of seven is the same result provided to date by the U.S. Taurus launcher, which is based on the MX ICBM first stage.

 - Ed Kyle

Not entirely true.  Taurus comes in two versions, a DoD version that uses the first stage motor from the Peacekeeper and a commercial version that uses the Thiokol Castor 120.  The one mission that failed used the Castor 120, however the failure was in the TVC of the Orion 50 motor, which is completely unrelated to any ICBM-derived parts.  It's confusion like this that causes misinformation and improper conclusions.

My intent was to compare launchers of a similar class (Dnepr and Taurus) that had similar flight results (both are now 6 for 7).  Taurus is not MX, and I did not mean to imply that it was, but it is based on MX in that it uses the MX first stage or a derivative thereof.  

As for Castor-120, it is a commercial derivative of the MX/Peacekeeper first stage that also powered Lockheed Martin's Athena.  Castor-120 has a less aggressive thrust profile than MX, with less maximum thrust and a longer burn time, but it weighs the same as an MX first stage, has the same dimensions, is built by the same contractor, etc..  

MX itself has suffered one failure (a staging failure) in 51 test flights.  Russia's R36M2 has failed seven times in 42 flights if you count the Dnepr missions, but all but yesterday's failure occurred during the initial development flight effort during 1986-88.  (The Soviets still tended to wring out problems in high-rate flight testing back then).  R36M2 had performed 21 successful flights in a row prior to yesterday's failure.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline aero313

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #51 on: 07/27/2006 03:58 PM »
Quote
edkyle99 - 27/7/2006  11:04 AM

As for Castor-120, it is a commercial derivative of the MX/Peacekeeper first stage that also powered Lockheed Martin's Athena.  Castor-120 has a less aggressive thrust profile than MX, with less maximum thrust and a longer burn time, but it weighs the same as an MX first stage, has the same dimensions, is built by the same contractor, etc..  

 - Ed Kyle

I worked on the Taurus program, so I'm very familiar with both the PK first stage and the Castor 120.  Despite marketing materials that may imply otherwise, the C120 is not a "commercial PK motor".  The C120 is about a foot longer, larger in diameter by 1", and heavier by 10,000 lbs.  The C120 uses a different, lower cost propellant.  The grain casting configuration is different.  The C120 uses a graphite case built on a reusable metal mandrel; PK used a kevlar case built on a disposable plaster mandrel.  The C120 flexseal and nozzle are derived from the D5 first stage, not the PK.  The nozzle actuators are hydraulic blowdown, not the hot gas turbopump driven system used on PK.  Even the bolt patterns on the end rings are different.  However, I do think the C120 igniter is the same as PK, if I remember correctly.

Keep in mind that the C120 HAD to be different from the PK first stage to avoid START treaty restrictions.

Offline aero313

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Re: Dnepr and Taurus
« Reply #52 on: 07/27/2006 04:06 PM »
Quote
edkyle99 - 27/7/2006  11:04 AM

My intent was to compare launchers of a similar class (Dnepr and Taurus) that had similar flight results (both are now 6 for 7).

Actually Dnepr is roughly equivalent to a Titan II in size, configuration, and performance.

Quote
Taurus is not MX, and I did not mean to imply that it was, but it is based on MX in that it uses the MX first stage or a derivative thereof.  

 - Ed Kyle

That's like saying the Atlas V is based on the Zenit.  Taurus may have used the PK first stage SRM for three misions, but that's all it used.  Avionics, ordnance, GN&C were all unrelated to PK and were, in fact, derived from Pegasus (as were the upper stages).  Of course, it wasn't that simple, as the more severe launch environments required redesign and requalification of most of the Pegasus hardware.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr and Taurus
« Reply #53 on: 07/27/2006 05:47 PM »
Quote
aero313 - 27/7/2006  10:53 AM

Quote
edkyle99 - 27/7/2006  11:04 AM

My intent was to compare launchers of a similar class (Dnepr and Taurus) that had similar flight results (both are now 6 for 7).

Actually Dnepr is roughly equivalent to a Titan II in size, configuration, and performance.

Yes, but Titan II is gone.  Taurus is the nearest existing serial-stage U.S. launcher to Dnepr in the same class (less than 5 tonnes payload to LEO, say), which is one reason I picked it for comparison.  Delta 7420 is closer to Dnepr in performance than Taurus, perhaps, but it is not based on an ICBM.  

Quote
Quote
Taurus is not MX, and I did not mean to imply that it was, but it is based on MX in that it uses the MX first stage or a derivative thereof.  

 - Ed Kyle

That's like saying the Atlas V is based on the Zenit.  

I don't see it that way.  One version of Taurus actually used an MX/Peacekeeper first stage.  Another version uses a first stage derived from the MX/Peacekeeper first stage.  Atlas V uses an engine derived and heavily modified from the Zenit engine, but it doesn't use any structure, etc.    

Castor 120 is not an MX first stage, but I believe it is fair to class it as a "derivative" of the MX first stage.  There are clearly differences, but there are also similarities.  I doubt that Castor 120 would exist at all if the MX stage had not existed first.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline aero313

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Re: Dnepr and Taurus
« Reply #54 on: 07/27/2006 06:56 PM »
Quote
edkyle99 - 27/7/2006  1:34 PM

I doubt that Castor 120 would exist at all if the MX stage had not existed first.

That part is absolutely true.  Thiokol saw the handwriting on the wall with the fall of the USSR and was looking for a way to keep their employees and infrastructure in work.  It also helped that they were getting rent-free use of the Air Force plant at Promentory.

Quote

Castor 120 is not an MX first stage, but I believe it is fair to class it as a "derivative" of the MX first stage.  There are clearly differences, but there are also similarities.  

Well, to me a "derivative" is like the motors on the Pegasus XL vs. the original Pegasus.  Same basic design, same materials, same propellants, just stretched to increase total impulse.  The PK first stage and the C120 are about as similar as the Titan I and Titan II.  If you want to call that a derivative, fine, but in my experience the two different vehicles are both called "Titan" only because it helps with the range safety approval process.


Quote
Delta 7420 is closer to Dnepr in performance than Taurus, perhaps, but it is not based on an ICBM.  

Ever heard of the Thor? OK, that's an IRBM.

Quote
Quote
That's like saying the Atlas V is based on the Zenit.  

I don't see it that way.  One version of Taurus actually used an MX/Peacekeeper first stage.  Another version uses a first stage derived from the MX/Peacekeeper first stage.  Atlas V uses an engine derived and heavily modified from the Zenit engine, but it doesn't use any structure, etc.    

We're into semantics here, but I'd argue that Dnepr is a relatively unmodified ICBM with a different payload fairing.  It was launched by the same military forces using the same launch pads as the ICBM.  Taurus used one solid rocket motor from an ICBM and three commercially built rocket motors, along with new avionics, wire harness, ordnance systems, GN&C software, and payload fairing.  It is ground launched from a flat pad, not canister launched and ignited 200 ft in the air.  That latter part was why we needed to do a significant amount of work on environments predictions and requal prior to the first flight.  If anything, I'd argue that the (yet to be flown) Minotaur IV, which uses the three solid stages and subsystems from PK, is similar to Dnepr.

Offline Cretan126

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #55 on: 07/27/2006 08:48 PM »
Quote
Jim - 26/7/2006  3:06 PM

That is the risk of using converted ICBM's for space launch.  The US was burned by the Atlas E a few times and so the Atlas H was developed  for better reliability.  Smallsats have to realize that some of the lower cost LV's have higher risks.  Working that issue as we speak.  Trying to find out if there would be more XXXX spacecraft to fly if there was cheaper LV's with higher risk.

Jim,
I think your assessment of converted ICBM's as being unsuited for launch vehicles is rather hasty.  Russian versus U.S. launchers may be on issue, but other than a couple of Atlas failures in 1980-81, what is your basis for dismissing converted U.S. ICBM's?  And what actually constitues a 'converted ICBM" in your mind?  Is it the use of ICBM boosters, but with new avionics and upper stages, such as on Taurus and the Minotaur vehicles?  When I look at the statistics of launch vehicle success rates, I just don't see the great distinction in reliability between ICBM-derived and others.  

Titan II 23Gs were converted ICBMs and went 13 for 13.  One was even used to launch a NASA mission (Coriolis), as well as for NOAA payload.  The last Minuteman II failure was 40 years ago - yesterday.  So, there have been a string of 160 successful Minuteman II launches - plus five more in the Minotaur application.  Peacekeeper is 50 for 51, a 98% success rate, as well as another three successful launches on Taurus.  

In certain launch vehicle circles, there seems to be a deeply ingrained impression that using converted ICBMs is risky and problematic.   Looking at the history, I just don't understand where that comes from.  I'd apprecite any comments you may have that can shed light on this concern.

C

Offline hop

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #56 on: 07/27/2006 09:17 PM »
Tsyklon 2, which is an R-36 ICBM derivative, is statistically one of the most reliable LVs in the world with.

Offline aero313

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #57 on: 07/27/2006 10:03 PM »
Quote
Cretan126 - 27/7/2006  4:35 PM

In certain launch vehicle circles, there seems to be a deeply ingrained impression that using converted ICBMs is risky and problematic.

Yeah, in the launch circles of companies trying to sell new LVs that compete with converted strategic assets...    ;)  

Quote
Looking at the history, I just don't understand where that comes from.  I'd apprecite any comments you may have that can shed light on this concern.

C


Well, I for one agree with you completely.  The PK first stage was subjected to at least 30 static fire tests and there were soemthing like 18 full up developmental test flights before going operational.  The system is designed to launch through a nuclear first strike on the silos.  Show me any LV not designed from an ICBM (with the possible exception of the shuttle) that has been subjected to that much testing.  Keep in mind that ICBM programs are typically run in the fashion of "when you care enough to spend the very most..."

Sure there are problems.  Aging of solids is a big one.  I witnessed a very spectactular failure of a converted Minuteman I at Vandenberg (that's the one that nearly set Casmalia and the Hitching Post on fire) that was due to an aging problem.  Similarly, problems with knowledge transfer can cause problems.  At the same time, I agree that the flight record of ICBMs is much better than that of space launch vehciles.

Offline Jim

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #58 on: 07/27/2006 10:14 PM »
Quote
Cretan126 - 27/7/2006  4:35 PM

Quote
Jim - 26/7/2006  3:06 PM

That is the risk of using converted ICBM's for space launch.  The US was burned by the Atlas E a few times and so the Atlas H was developed  for better reliability.  Smallsats have to realize that some of the lower cost LV's have higher risks.  Working that issue as we speak.  Trying to find out if there would be more XXXX spacecraft to fly if there was cheaper LV's with higher risk.

Jim,
I think your assessment of converted ICBM's as being unsuited for launch vehicles is rather hasty.  Russian versus U.S. launchers may be on issue, but other than a couple of Atlas failures in 1980-81, what is your basis for dismissing converted U.S. ICBM's?  And what actually constitues a 'converted ICBM" in your mind?  Is it the use of ICBM boosters, but with new avionics and upper stages, such as on Taurus and the Minotaur vehicles?  When I look at the statistics of launch vehicle success rates, I just don't see the great distinction in reliability between ICBM-derived and others.  

Titan II 23Gs were converted ICBMs and went 13 for 13.  One was even used to launch a NASA mission (Coriolis), as well as for NOAA payload.  The last Minuteman II failure was 40 years ago - yesterday.  So, there have been a string of 160 successful Minuteman II launches - plus five more in the Minotaur application.  Peacekeeper is 50 for 51, a 98% success rate, as well as another three successful launches on Taurus.  

In certain launch vehicle circles, there seems to be a deeply ingrained impression that using converted ICBMs is risky and problematic.   Looking at the history, I just don't understand where that comes from.  I'd apprecite any comments you may have that can shed light on this concern.


I am talking spacelaunches, so not MM or PK and not derived.  Converted ICBM is one pulled from the hole.  Atlas E&F were the only ones that fit this.  The Titan 23G had T-II tanks taken apart, refurbed, swapped and reassembled.  So potentially, a T-23G could have tanks from 4 different vehicles.  That's why they cost so much.  Lessons learned from the Altas E&F.

BTW Coriolis was USAF, Quikscat was NASA and so was NOAA.

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #59 on: 07/27/2006 10:28 PM »
Rumour from Novosti kosmonavtiki forum... The current most probable reason of yesterday's failure of Dnepr rocket is abnormal work of one of four 15L423 hydrodrives of propulsion system of first stage... The complex of command devices has given out the command for switching off the propulsion system of first stage on 73.89 seconds after liftoff after Dnepr rocket has exceeded a maximum yaw deviation...

Online MKremer

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #60 on: 07/27/2006 10:36 PM »
So, if that was the case, they'll need to discover whether it was a software error, or hardware failure?

Offline Cretan126

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #61 on: 07/28/2006 04:11 PM »
Quote
Jim - 27/7/2006  4:01 PM
I am talking spacelaunches, so not MM or PK and not derived.  Converted ICBM is one pulled from the hole.  Atlas E&F were the only ones that fit this.  The Titan 23G had T-II tanks taken apart, refurbed, swapped and reassembled.  So potentially, a T-23G could have tanks from 4 different vehicles.  That's why they cost so much.  Lessons learned from the Altas E&F.

BTW Coriolis was USAF, Quikscat was NASA and so was NOAA.

Jim,

Given your response, I think we agree.  Adapting all of the guidance, software, payload interfaces, etc. that was specifically designed for the ICBM application to make it a space launch vehicle is not an easy thing.  My interpretation was more aligned with Aero's response and was focused on the solid rocket motors.  They have been proven reliable over many launches and have already been paid for by the U.S. taxpayers, so we might as well use them for providing lower cost launches.

C

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #62 on: 07/28/2006 06:35 PM »
Extraction from the press-release of RSC Energiya - http://www.energia.ru/english/energia/news/news-2006/press_release-07-27.html

"BelKA spacecraft had been insured. The Belorussian side expressed a wish to order again the identical satellite at RSC Energia. There is a possibility of its repeated launch within next 1.5 years."

Offline Jim

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26
« Reply #63 on: 07/28/2006 07:09 PM »
Quote
Cretan126 - 28/7/2006  11:58 AM
Jim,

Given your response, I think we agree.  Adapting all of the guidance, software, payload interfaces, etc. that was specifically designed for the ICBM application to make it a space launch vehicle is not an easy thing.  My interpretation was more aligned with Aero's response and was focused on the solid rocket motors.  They have been proven reliable over many launches and have already been paid for by the U.S. taxpayers, so we might as well use them for providing lower cost launches.
C


I guess I should have caveated my statement by saying liquid ICBM's.   I agree with the solids.  You can mix, match and trade with your friends to get a vehicle that meets your requirements.


Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #64 on: 07/30/2006 05:36 PM »
Quote
anik - 27/7/2006  5:15 PM

Rumour from Novosti kosmonavtiki forum... The current most probable reason of yesterday's failure of Dnepr rocket is abnormal work of one of four 15L423 hydrodrives of propulsion system of first stage... The complex of command devices has given out the command for switching off the propulsion system of first stage on 73.89 seconds after liftoff after Dnepr rocket has exceeded a maximum yaw deviation...

Here's a report laying the blame on Ukraine even before the investigation has begun!

From http://en.rian.ru/russia/20060730/52028942.html

"Now a commission led by academician Nikolai Anfimov from the Russian Academy of Sciences is studying together with Ukrainian and Belarusian colleagues several versions of the crash," Igor Panarin said. "All of the versions are linked, this way or another, with the work of the rocket's equipment produced at Ukrainian enterprises."

Weren't the engines made in Russia?

 - Ed Kyle

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #65 on: 07/30/2006 06:43 PM »
Quote
edkyle99 - 30/7/2006  9:23 PM

Weren't the engines made in Russia?

Yes, engines for Dnepr rocket were made in Russia in 1980th years... RD-264 (see the image below from Novosti kosmonavtiki website) on the first stage was produced at Glushko NPO Energomash (Khimki, near Moscow), RD-0229 and RD-0230 on the second stage - at KBKhA (Voronezh)...

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #66 on: 07/31/2006 03:46 PM »
I've run into some conflicting information about whether Dnepr uses R-36M2 (newest type) or R-36MU series (slightly older type) missiles.  Are there any solid sources of info about this?

 - Ed Kyle

Offline Jester

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #67 on: 08/01/2006 02:17 PM »
Quote
edkyle99 - 31/7/2006  5:33 PM

I've run into some conflicting information about whether Dnepr uses R-36M2 (newest type) or R-36MU series (slightly older type) missiles.  Are there any solid sources of info about this?

 - Ed Kyle

As far as i'm aware its the R-36MU (aka R-36M UTTKh Improved Tactical and Technical Characteristics)

Industrial Code: 15A18

Offline Jester

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #68 on: 08/01/2006 03:03 PM »
Edit: sorry that statement above is WRONG ! I didn't post the complete story, hit submit too soon, here it is:


The R-36MU = R-36MUTTKh with Improved Tactical and Technical Characteristics was replaced by the R-36M2

A tactical-technical specification was issued on July 1979 for a fourth generation heavy ICBM to replace the R-36MUTTKh
The draft project was completed in June 1982 and featured uprated engines better resistant to nearby nuclear blasts
A formal decree authorising development of the entire missile was issued on 9 August 1983

Dnepr uses the approximately 150 R-36M2 ICBM's which were to be destroyed by 2007 under the START-2 treaty (Code: 15A18M2)


Offline jacqmans

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RE: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #69 on: 08/01/2006 04:25 PM »
http://www.roscosmos.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=1690

(translation below)

01-08-2006

On the elimination of the consequences of the emergency of rocket RS -20

The fall of rocket RS -20 occurred approximately in 150 kilometers south west of spaceport Baikonur in the desert locality. The nearest populated area - the settlement Of zhanakala is located in 35 kilometers to the northeast of the point of the fall of rocket. The funnel of rounded form was formed on the spot of the fall of rocket. On the edges of funnel as a result of the ejection of soil was formed the parapet by height to one-and-a-half it was meter. The fragments of rocket in the form of fragments by sizes, in essence, to 50 centimeters, were scattered at a distance to 150 it was meter from the place of the fall of rocket. The dimensions of funnel testify about the large explosive force of the samovosplamenivshikhsya components, which led to the combustion of the larger part of the propellant components.

The place of the fall of rocket was discovered by the morning on 28 July. Immediately after the detection of the place for emergency, the region of emergency was surrounded, and field laboratory with the specialists, who conducted the measurements of the concentration of harmful substances, was there delivered. The results of rapid analysis showed that the summit level of pollution by heptyl is in the center of funnel and composes 228 maximum permissible levels (PDU); with removal from the point of impact pollution level is reduced to 0,1 PDU at a distance of 50-150 it is meter. Carry ouied on 29 July in the stationary conditions sample test showed the presence of the pollution of tests from 228 to 0,1 PDU. On 29 July, together with the Kazakhstan side is carry ouied the sampling of soil in the impact area, and are also carry ouied the tests of soil and water in Zhanakala settlement. In the tests, undertaken in Zhanakala settlement, the propellant components are not discovered.

The analyses, executed by 29 and on 30 July, testify about a rapid decrease in pollution level, what occurs under the action of natural factors - as a result of the instability of heptyl to the solar radiation its decomposition during the evaporation occurs. Russian and Kazakhstan specialists develop measures for the selection of the optimum measures of the detoxication of soil. Unfortunately, in view of complexity and uniqueness of rocket-space technology, in all participating countries of mastery of outer space periodically occur the emergencies of carrier rockets. By roskosmosom and by subordinate enterprises in the field in the long period is carried out work on the modernization of the park of carrier rockets for the purpose of an increase in their reliability, minimization of damage to ecology with the emergency outcome. This work will be continued, also, subsequently. Roskosmos expressed its regret and brought apologies to Kazakhstan side and customers of launching in connection with the emergency of carrier rocket RS -20. Roskosmos will compulsorily pay off allowance for damage, substituted to the earth and the steppe vegetation of republic Kazakhstan from the emergency of rocket RS -20 as this provided by international standards and bilateral agreements.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #70 on: 08/01/2006 06:38 PM »
Quote
Jester - 1/8/2006  9:50 AM

Edit: sorry that statement above is WRONG ! I didn't post the complete story, hit submit too soon, here it is:


The R-36MU = R-36MUTTKh with Improved Tactical and Technical Characteristics was replaced by the R-36M2

A tactical-technical specification was issued on July 1979 for a fourth generation heavy ICBM to replace the R-36MUTTKh
The draft project was completed in June 1982 and featured uprated engines better resistant to nearby nuclear blasts
A formal decree authorising development of the entire missile was issued on 9 August 1983

Dnepr uses the approximately 150 R-36M2 ICBM's which were to be destroyed by 2007 under the START-2 treaty (Code: 15A18M2)


www.astronautix.com says that Dnepr uses the R-36M2, but

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/r36muttkh.html

says:
"In 2005, Nikolay Solovtsov, the commander of the Strategic Rocket Forces, said that R-36 MUTTKh, would remain in service until 2007-2009. In the meantime, some of R-36M UTTKh rockets would be converted in space vehicles within the Dnepr program."

The following site also says that Dnepr uses R-36MU series missiles.
http://russianforces.org/blog/2006/07/everything_has_limits.shtml

My understanding is that the R-36MU missiles are being phased out by 2009, but that the R-36M2 missiles are expected to remain active until 2016-2020.  As a result, it would make sense to me that R-36MU missiles are being flown as Dneprs, allowing Russia to preserve the R-36M2 missiles for active duty.

But I'm not sure.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline jacqmans

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RE: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #71 on: 08/02/2006 01:27 PM »
http://www.roscosmos.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=1692

(Translation below)

02.08.2006

about the session of interdepartmental commission for the development of the reasons for the emergency starting of rocket RS -20 for determining the specific reason for the refusal of rocket By roskosmosom, the Defense Ministry of Russia formed "interdepartmental commission for the development of the reasons for the emergency starting of rocket RS -20 with the group KA, 26 July 2006" under the management of the Director-General OF FGUP "TSNII - CENTRAL SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH INSTITUTE of machine building" the academician OF RAN [RUSSIAN ACADEMY OF SCIENCE] of Nikolai apollonovich's Anfimova. Into the composition of commission enter representatives Of roskosmosa, space troops, RVSN, GKB "southern", INTERNATIONAL WHALING COMMISSION Of "kosmotras" and a number of other interested structures. On 4 August takes place session of the commission in On 4 August takes place session of the commission This commission must present its conclusion until 28 August, 2006.

Offline sammie

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #72 on: 08/04/2006 10:27 AM »
http://www.inform.kz/showarticle.php?lang=eng&id=143749

MOSCOW. August 4, 2006. KAZINFORM - Russia will pay compensation to Kazakhstan for damage caused by the crash of the space rocket Dnepr after a size of it is assessed, the deputy chief of the Federal Space Agency (Roskosmos), Viktor Ramishevsky, said."We shall pay compensation for damage to ecology from the crash of the carrier rocket Dnepr by all means, as is stipulated by international norms and bilateral accords," he said.

Ramishevsky called "gag and an attempt to bring irritation into the relations with Kazakhstan" the reports by some of Russian mass media alleging that Russia would not pay for damage to soil and steppe vegetation caused by the fall of the Dnepr rocket.

There is no environmental disaster in the area of the fall, Ramishevsky said.

He said that "fuel components have not been found in water samples in the residential area Zhanakala, 35 kilometres south of which the carrier rocket fell".

"In the area of the explosion of the rocket and of dispersion of itsfragments, ground contamination above a maximum permissible level (MPL) has been revealed at a distance not more than 150 meters from the centre of a crater that formed as a result of the fall and explosion of the rocket. The concentration of rocket fuel in ground samples obtained from
the crater is not above 228 MPL," Roskosmos said in an official release, KAZINFORM cites Itar-Tass.

Experts noted a "tendency of fuel concentration reduction in the crater, which is explained by good evaporability of heptil in a hot weather and its low resistance to solar radiation".

An air temperature in the Zhanala area is 35 decrees centigrade tehse days.

The 15 meter deep crater 50 meters in diameter indicates a great force of the explosion of fuel components, Roskosmos said.

It said that work would be continued in the coming days to fence contour off the crater, with the monitoring of soil contamination two meters beneath the deepest part of the crater.

Russian and Kazakh specialists are considering a technique of cleaning the heptil-contaminated soil using kerosene burnout or detoxification with special agents, Ramishevsky said.

The Dnepr rocket carrying 18 satellites crashed shortly after the launch from the Baikonur cosmodrome last Thursday.

According to Roskosmos, it had 86,430 kilogrammes of fuel, including 23,990 kilogrammes of toxic heptil and 62, 438 kilogrammes of an oxidiser, nitrogen tetroxide.

The rocket's fragments were found 35 kilometres from Zhanakaly in an area located 150 kilometres from Baikonur.
"The dreams ain't broken downhere, they're just walking with a limp"

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure Cause
« Reply #73 on: 08/12/2006 07:21 PM »
"Overheated combustion chamber caused Dnepr crash

11.08.2006, 15.15

ASTANA, August 11 (Itar-Tass) - An overheated combustion chamber caused emergency shutdown of a Dnepr engine and the subsequent crash of the booster rocket, according to a preliminary version of the accident, Director of Russia's Roskosmos Federal Space Agency Anatoly Perminov said here on Friday.

It is this malfunction that might have caused the failure of the engine of the nozzle rotator mechanism. However, "there can be numerous reasons," Perminov added."


http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=10699502&PageNum=0

 - Ed Kyle

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure Cause
« Reply #74 on: 08/17/2006 01:40 PM »
Quote
edkyle99 - 12/8/2006  2:08 PM

"Overheated combustion chamber caused Dnepr crash

11.08.2006, 15.15

ASTANA, August 11 (Itar-Tass) - An overheated combustion chamber caused emergency shutdown of a Dnepr engine and the subsequent crash of the booster rocket, according to a preliminary version of the accident, Director of Russia's Roskosmos Federal Space Agency Anatoly Perminov said here on Friday.

It is this malfunction that might have caused the failure of the engine of the nozzle rotator mechanism. However, "there can be numerous reasons," Perminov added."


http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=10699502&PageNum=0

 - Ed Kyle

Now, less than two weeks later, Itar Tass provides a different explanation!

http://www.tass.ru/eng/level2.html?NewsID=10711864&PageNum=0

"MOSCOW, August 16 (Itar-Tass) - The crash of the Dnepr booster rocket that blasted off from the Baikonur
cosmodrome on July 26, occurred because of "brief operation failure of a hydraulic pumping drive on one
of the combustion chambers of the first stage engine"...

 - Ed Kyle

Offline JoLTiy

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RE: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #75 on: 08/17/2006 01:50 PM »
On 11 August are of this year found five points of impact in the fragments of rocket “Dnepr”. In these places are undertaken the tests of soil, which are transmitted for the study by Kazakhstan and Russian scientist. To see fresh photos is possible http://kosmodrombaikonur.ru/index.php/news/full_news/poiskovie_raboti_na_meste_padeniya_raketi_nositelya_dnepr_idut_k_zaversheni/

Offline Chris Bergin

RE: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #76 on: 08/17/2006 03:54 PM »
Thanks and welcome to the site :)

Offline anik

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #77 on: 08/18/2006 03:23 AM »
Quote
anik - 28/7/2006  10:22 PM

Extraction from the press-release of RSC Energiya - http://www.energia.ru/english/energia/news/news-2006/press_release-07-27.html

"BelKA spacecraft had been insured. The Belorussian side expressed a wish to order again the identical satellite at RSC Energia. There is a possibility of its repeated launch within next 1.5 years."

Belarus To Announce Tender For New National Satellite
http://www.spacemart.com/reports/Belarus_To_Announce_Tender_For_New_National_Satellite_999.html

Offline publiusr

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #78 on: 08/18/2006 10:09 PM »
Nice links.

Offline SpacemanSpiff

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #79 on: 09/27/2006 06:23 PM »
Failure Investigation Report has been issued:

http://www.kosmotras.ru/

See the 'News' section.

Looks like Dnepr launches are on hold while they check for the problem they cite in the article. Does anyone know what they are talking about? Sounds like either a wiring problem (short circuit) or an avionics control problem...

Cheers,
SS

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Dnepr launch - July 26: Failure
« Reply #80 on: 09/27/2006 08:11 PM »
Quote
SpacemanSpiff - 27/9/2006  1:06 PM

Failure Investigation Report has been issued:

http://www.kosmotras.ru/

See the 'News' section.

Looks like Dnepr launches are on hold while they check for the problem they cite in the article. Does anyone know what they are talking about? Sounds like either a wiring problem (short circuit) or an avionics control problem...

Cheers,
SS

It sounds to me like a mechanical, not an electrical, problem.  The hydraulic drive used to control the position of combustion chamber #4 (of four) malfunctioned due to overheated heptil fuel being fed into the hydraulic drive.  (The heptil fuel may have been the hydraulic "working medium", but I'm not sure about that.)  The heptil fuel overheated due to the failure of insulation on the fuel line leading to the pump.  Why did the insulation fail?  "non-compliance with the design and manufacturing documentation" - a manufacturing defect!  

This was an older missile, so it seems likely that the insulation either degraded due to age or had suffered damage during the transport/handling process.  But that's just a guess.

 - Ed Kyle

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