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Pre-ESAS Lockheed CEV on Display! by simonbp on 24 May, 2006 04:00
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I was just in Huntsville for the day and when I swung around the US Space and Rocket Center, I noticed a construction crane. Checking it out, I saw (in between the Atlas D and the tail of the Saturn V, where the NERVA engine used to be) what appeared to be a ~4 metre diameter capsule with a LES on top and "Lockheed Martin" on the side! Asking one of the other onlookers, I found out that is was in fact a Pre-ESAS mock-up of a Lockheed CEV and has been sitting in a warehouse for about a year and a half.
I unfortunately didn't have a camera with me, but the capsule was about 4 m across, 6 m high with a rounded nose and an Apollo-style LES/tower (which was quite obviously a mock-up, as when I got there, one of the workers was banging on it with a hammer to get it onto the tower). There was also an alternative nose cone next to it with no tower, but two large metal mounts that looked about the size and shape of Shuttle SRB separation motors...
Does anyone know more about this design?
Simon
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#1 by gladiator1332 on 24 May, 2006 18:09
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There were two Pre-ESAS designs put out by Lockheed. I think they even go back to the days of the OSP.
This was one:
http://www.skyrocket.de/space/img_sat/cev_lm_1.jpg
http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/nk/2004/3/04.jpg
And here is a more rounded design (along with their biconic design):
http://www.planete-mars.com/dossiers/lune/images/0422zubrin_b.jpg
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#2 by simonbp on 24 May, 2006 18:20
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It was closest to the one in the foreground of the second group but without the full SM...
Also, it was mostly white with black roll bars...
Simon
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#3 by eeergo on 24 May, 2006 19:27
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#4 by gladiator1332 on 25 May, 2006 00:57
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However, he said it was more rounded. The mockup NASA is building is the ESAS Apollo derived design. What he is describing is something more like the rounded design in the second picture. Something a little more like Soyuz.
Damn I was hoping there was a shot in hell for the Lockheed concept in the first picture. That was my favorite during the OSP designs. Kinda like Apollo, just not as conical. However, I believe ESAS was looking into something like this at first, but instead went with something more like Apollo. -
#5 by jjnodice on 25 May, 2006 12:19
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Actually, that "warehouse" has been an outside storage area at the Lockheed Martin Space Systems Co. facility at the corner of Bradford and Sparkman. It's been there at least a year. Sure enough, it's not there anymore!
Nice to see it got to a more appropriate resting place.
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#6 by vt_hokie on 31 May, 2006 03:52
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Eh, I thought it might be the good one. Oh well...
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#7 by simonbp on 05 Jun, 2006 03:22
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Ah ha, an excuse to go and try out my new digital camera!
As you can see from the plaque, it was a drop-test mock-up. I'm still rather iffy as to what the secondry nose cone sitting next to it is for...
Simon
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#8 by nacnud on 05 Jun, 2006 11:01
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The secondary nose looks like an alternative method of launch escape system with the motors mounted on the side of the vehicle as in the early LM OSP designs. I'm not sure about the reasoning behind this, reduced rocketcexaust on the vehicle maybe?
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#9 by collectSPACE on 05 Jun, 2006 20:37
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I've posted a few photos from today's ribbon cutting ceremony on collectSPACE.
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#10 by gladiator1332 on 05 Jun, 2006 22:01
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When you look at Astronautix's list of CEV concepts you see that at one point this is exactly what Lockheed was considering:
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/cevkheed.htm -
#11 by gladiator1332 on 05 Jun, 2006 22:32
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I hope someday we get some clear picture of what was going on behind the scenes during the time shortly before and during ESAS. I assume Lockheed was being informed of the direction that the ESAS was going in. I wonder when Lockheed made the change from this rounded design to the Apollo style capsule that has been seen in a few images.
For them to build a drop test model ofr this design then it seems that they were rather serious about it. I like this design and it does not seem like a bad choice, neither does their current Apollo derived design.
What advantages would this rounded design have over the more conical Apollo derived capsule? -
#12 by Jim on 05 Jun, 2006 22:56
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Quote
gladiator1332 - 5/6/2006 6:19 PM
I hope someday we get some clear picture of what was going on behind the scenes during the time shortly before and during ESAS. I assume Lockheed was being informed of the direction that the ESAS was going in. I wonder when Lockheed made the change from this rounded design to the Apollo style capsule that has been seen in a few images.
For them to build a drop test model ofr this design then it seems that they were rather serious about it. I like this design and it does not seem like a bad choice, neither does their current Apollo derived design.
What advantages would this rounded design have over the more conical Apollo derived capsule?
Remember, this was an OSP design, that's what the drop testing was for.
More room in rounded design. monostablility. -
#13 by gladiator1332 on 05 Jun, 2006 23:00
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And I'm sure they learned some things with those tests that could help them with the CEV, maybe in terms of the LES placement.
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#14 by Jim on 05 Jun, 2006 23:07
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gladiator1332 - 5/6/2006 6:47 PM
And I'm sure they learned some things with those tests that could help them with the CEV, maybe in terms of the LES placement.
Not really. That mockup was bascially for touchy feely for the customer. The drop test for bouyancy of the that specific design. LES placement is design specific also.
Boeing has a similar mockup for OSP in HSV. -
#15 by simonbp on 05 Jun, 2006 23:13
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Jim - 5/6/2006 5:54 PM
...
Boeing has a similar mockup for OSP in HSV.
Now wouldn't be a coup for the Museum to be able to display the two of them next to each other (hopefully someone @ Boeing Huntsville is listening)...
Simon
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#16 by PurduesUSAFguy on 01 Jul, 2006 04:41
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I just wonder what happened to the NERVA mock up that used to be sitting there. In the long run NERVA might end up being more important historically then the LockMart OSP entrant.
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#17 by simonbp on 01 Jul, 2006 14:59
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It "dissapered" last summer; to the best of my knowledge MSFC wanted to look at its J-2-derived powerhead, but I don't know any specifics or where it is now...
Simon
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#18 by danielc56 on 06 Nov, 2006 22:43
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Hi all,
The capsule looks similar to one of Lockheed Martin's Orbital Space Plane (OSP) designs:
Maybe the mock-up was created during the pre-CEV time period?
I also discovered a mockup of the lifting body design. Found the image on the Processfab.com website:
The actual page I got this pic from was http://www.processfab.com/galleryCat.asp?categoryID=7. It shows the two escape rockets attached.
First post! Woohoo!
danielc56
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#19 by Chris Bergin on 06 Nov, 2006 22:51
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Well done on finding a large image of the LM fun and games!
Welcome to the site
