Bigelow Aerospace Update Thread (2)

[RocketmanUS]

Do they have inflatable material that will hold water in space that will still be drinkable?

[manboy]

Do they have inflatable material that will hold water in space that will still be drinkable?

Well ya.

[AnalogMan]

Do they have inflatable material that will hold water in space that will still be drinkable?

Such containers can be purchased from ATL (Aero Tec Laboratories):

http://www.atlinc.com/spacecraft.html

[RocketmanUS]

Do they have inflatable material that will hold water in space that will still be drinkable?

Such containers can be purchased from ATL (Aero Tec Laboratories):

http://www.atlinc.com/spacecraft.html

For outside of the spacecraft. Trans hab, with inflatable the diameter would be smaller for a fairing and on orbit would expand when filled with water. Water for crew needs and as radiation shielding. This is why I asked if they already have such a material. So the water will have to be able to remain potable for months in space in such a container.

[clongton]

Do they have inflatable material that will hold water in space that will still be drinkable?

Such containers can be purchased from ATL (Aero Tec Laboratories):

http://www.atlinc.com/spacecraft.html

For outside of the spacecraft. Trans hab, with inflatable the diameter would be smaller for a fairing and on orbit would expand when filled with water. Water for crew needs and as radiation shielding. This is why I asked if they already have such a material. So the water will have to be able to remain potable for months in space in such a container.

What would contaminate it? It would be in a sealed volume.

[RocketmanUS]

Do they have inflatable material that will hold water in space that will still be drinkable?

Such containers can be purchased from ATL (Aero Tec Laboratories):

http://www.atlinc.com/spacecraft.html

For outside of the spacecraft. Trans hab, with inflatable the diameter would be smaller for a fairing and on orbit would expand when filled with water. Water for crew needs and as radiation shielding. This is why I asked if they already have such a material. So the water will have to be able to remain potable for months in space in such a container.

What would contaminate it? It would be in a sealed volume.

The material the container is made of. It has to be made of a material that will not brake down in the space environment. When someone drinks from a can or plastic bottle does some of the material get in the drink ( water or other type of drink )?

Also will have to handle the water freezing and boiling as the water containers would be on the outside of the trans hab.

[Robotbeat]

Do they have inflatable material that will hold water in space that will still be drinkable?

Such containers can be purchased from ATL (Aero Tec Laboratories):

http://www.atlinc.com/spacecraft.html

For outside of the spacecraft. Trans hab, with inflatable the diameter would be smaller for a fairing and on orbit would expand when filled with water. Water for crew needs and as radiation shielding. This is why I asked if they already have such a material. So the water will have to be able to remain potable for months in space in such a container.

What would contaminate it? It would be in a sealed volume.

The material the container is made of. It has to be made of a material that will not brake down in the space environment. When someone drinks from a can or plastic bottle does some of the material get in the drink ( water or other type of drink )?

Also will have to handle the water freezing and boiling as the water containers would be on the outside of the trans hab.

albedo management should allow you to keep the water in a single state, like frozen.

[JohnFornaro]

Most excellent news to hear that they're hiring again.

[Orbital Debris]

Do they have inflatable material that will hold water in space that will still be drinkable?

They have done some prototypes on bags for containing water around the periphery of the interior of the spacecraft.  I don't think they settled on a satisfactory design.  It is difficult to model shielding thickness of water if you just velcro a bunch of CWC's to the interior of the hull.

As pointed out, there are quite a few existing designs, but attachment and geometry may not be suitable.  The challenge for long term storage is using a biocide to prevent microbial growth. 

Storage on the outside is not practical if you want to be able to access the water. 

[pathfinder_01]

What would contaminate it? It would be in a sealed volume.

If there was any dust, microbes or spores in that sealed volume(or in the water before hand) there is the possiblity of it being contaminated.  When bottles are filled on earth they are often filled hot or exposed to UV light or contain a biocide like chlorine or ozone to increase shelf life of the product.

In the case of the shuttle and the ISS the biocide is iodine(and a silver compound on the russian side). Water is basically the key ingredent for life, yes you do need more than water to have bacterial growth, but that growth does not need always need a large amount of nutirients to pose a hazard to health.

[Orbital Debris]

What would contaminate it? It would be in a sealed volume.

If there was any dust, microbes or spores in that sealed volume(or in the water before hand) there is the possiblity of it being contaminated.  When bottles are filled on earth they are often filled hot or exposed to UV light or contain a biocide like chlorine or ozone to increase shelf life of the product.

In the case of the shuttle and the ISS the biocide is iodine(and a silver compound on the russian side). Water is basically the key ingredent for life, yes you do need more than water to have bacterial growth, but that growth does not need always need a large amount of nutirients to pose a hazard to health.

Exactly.  No matter how clean it is or how much you filter it you will get growth after a couple of weeks. 

As an interesting side note, CWC (contingency water container) fill on the shuttle was tapped off prior to the microbial check valve in order to prevent the consequences of mixing iodized water and silver when it was passed over to ISS.  Treatment chemicals would be added afterward depending on intended water use.

Bigelow had not settled on a biocide.

As an amusing anecdote, a management type was silly enough to suggest repurposing urine for shielding with the same containers.  We used lessons learned on ISS, that sooner or later soft sided containers (let alone containers subjected to push off loads) always leaked, to diplomatically point out the flaw in that plan.

[pathfinder_01]

As an interesting side note, CWC (contingency water container) fill on the shuttle was tapped off prior to to the microbial check valve in order to prevent the consequences of mixing iodized water and silver.  Treatment chemicals would be added afterward depending on intended water use.

Bigelow had not settled on a biocide.

In the case if the ISS the water has a slight incompatiblilty cause the iodine and the silver react to produce a particulate not a health problem per see but can clog up tubes and any equipment that uses water. So they sent the water over uniodized to handle this problem it looks like.  Also the ISS has to test it's water to make sure it is safe to drink(when the US water system was installed it was contaminated on the ground...they had to come up with a proceedure to fix it).

[clongton]

As an amusing anecdote, a management type was silly enough to suggest repurposing urine for shielding with the same containers.  We used lessons learned on ISS, that sooner or later soft sided containers (let alone containers subjected to push off loads) always leaked, to diplomatically point out the flaw in that plan.

Interesting. I understand the eventual leakage of soft-sided containers, but what if the containers were plastic? They are better at radiation shielding than metal and can be sent to orbit collapsed, thus providing some of the space advantages of soft sided inflatables. Poly bottles provide the strength missing from the soft sided containers as well as being inflatable. Of course they would need to be much larger than the poly bottles we typically find on submarines in the gravity drain systems as they would become actual shielding containers, covering the entire inside diameter of the spacecraft. The inflated depth would be thin, but length and height quite large.

[ChefPat]

A recent article on Bigelow. No new info though.

Bigelow's inflatable space stations

[grr]

Do they have inflatable material that will hold water in space that will still be drinkable?

They have done some prototypes on bags for containing water around the periphery of the interior of the spacecraft.  I don't think they settled on a satisfactory design.  It is difficult to model shielding thickness of water if you just velcro a bunch of CWC's to the interior of the hull.

As pointed out, there are quite a few existing designs, but attachment and geometry may not be suitable.  The challenge for long term storage is using a biocide to prevent microbial growth. 

Storage on the outside is not practical if you want to be able to access the water. 

As for microbial growth, make use of the natural elements that you have.
1) keep it as ice (though you will need a slight amount of iodine in there since some bacteria does grow on ice).
2) even better is slowly pump water to the outer edge to take advantage of the radiation.

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

Do they have inflatable material that will hold water in space that will still be drinkable?

They have done some prototypes on bags for containing water around the periphery of the interior of the spacecraft.  I don't think they settled on a satisfactory design.  It is difficult to model shielding thickness of water if you just velcro a bunch of CWC's to the interior of the hull.

As pointed out, there are quite a few existing designs, but attachment and geometry may not be suitable.  The challenge for long term storage is using a biocide to prevent microbial growth. 

Storage on the outside is not practical if you want to be able to access the water. 

As for microbial growth, make use of the natural elements that you have.
1) keep it as ice (though you will need a slight amount of iodine in there since some bacteria does grow on ice).
2) even better is slowly pump water to the outer edge to take advantage of the radiation.

#2 has an advantage if the circulation is bag to bag. Circulating water from the sun side to the shadow side to improve thermal situation and a more even total temp for the stored water.

[thydusk666]

#2) even better is slowly pump water to the outer edge to take advantage of the radiation.


I'm very curious if this has ever been studied - how potable is the water after being exposed to high radiations?

Edit: quoting

[Robotbeat]

#2) even better is slowly pump water to the outer edge to take advantage of the radiation.


I'm very curious if this has ever been studied - how potable is the water after being exposed to high radiations?

Edit: quoting

What difference would it make? It's not heavy water and we're not talking about neutrons.

[mmeijeri]

Is background radiation going to make much of a difference? It's not all that high. While long exposure to it does increase the risk of cancer, that doesn't make it a disinfectant. UV irradiation and / or ozone should do the trick however. Doesn't sound too difficult.

[grr]

#2) even better is slowly pump water to the outer edge to take advantage of the radiation.


I'm very curious if this has ever been studied - how potable is the water after being exposed to high radiations?

Edit: quoting

It should not be any different. pure H2O should not react with anything else, save the container.
OTOH, food will have a slight taste difference depending on how much exposures.