Bigelow Aerospace Update Thread (2)

[Jim]

Where did they say every Dragon is going to have a trunk for unpressurized cargo

Where did they say any Dragon was going to have a "service module"? Because, ya know, what they have said about service modules, and reusability, has indicated that such an evolution would come with a big slice of humble pie for them..

BEO missions are going to require more propellant than is carried in the Dragon capsule.

[Jim]

As long as the payment from tag-along satellites i

 there will be few of those aside from cubesats.  Primary mission requirements leave little margin.

[Jim]

  Going to need FH with a long, thick neck to make this worthwhile I suppose. 

Why?  There are other means

[QuantumG]

BEO missions are going to require more propellant than is carried in the Dragon capsule.

Yep, fair enough.

[Jim]

It won't be much different than now,

The future will not be limited to F9 and Dragon paradigm.   The future is not going to be like Taco Bell on "Demolition Man" and all spacecraft are going to look like Dragon.

Which one of these conflicting statements should I go with? 
As far as I know, dream chaser is the only paradigm that isn't a small capsule.   

Red Dragon is a exception and not the rule. 

[Orbital Debris]

I still don't get why Mr. Bigelow chose Las Vegas instead of near a coast or bargeable river-way for a production facility. 

He builds in Las Vegas because he already owned the land, and it was near his current world headquarters.

Sundancer and BA330 are both transferable by truck.

BA2100 of course would not be, but considering even it the most successful future scenarios it's seriously doubtable that they will ship more than 1-2 a year, and the margin on them would be huge, using a cargo helicopter to transport to the nearest port is not out of the question.

There is nothing to ship yet, so he put it right in his own backyard.  The management has difficulty with remote locations, the Houston office (which built the softgoods and inflation systems for Genesis) withered and died within 3 years.

During a tour of the Decatur Alabama Boeing plant last year, RTB hinted that he would locate some production there.  It could have been a rah-rah, I'm bringing jobs here.  But probably not.

IMO, there is no practical way of transporting BA330 via truck.  Simply the fact that it requires a 5 meter fairing, add in a transport casing  - and you have a 5.5 minimum diameter. 

[go4mars]

Red Dragon is a exception and not the rule.

Oh.  I see.  In the context of a Bigelow thread I was assuming we were talking about manned spacecraft (which will generally look like dragon for the foreseeable future except for perhaps dream chaser). 

[go4mars]

Why?  There are other means

True.  Like a dedicated launch of a Bigelow module. 

[Jim]

Red Dragon is a exception and not the rule.

Oh.  I see.  In the context of a Bigelow thread I was assuming we were talking about manned spacecraft (which will generally look like dragon for the foreseeable future except for perhaps dream chaser). 

Boeing has more interaction with Bigelow.

[go4mars]

...assuming we were talking about manned spacecraft (which will generally look like dragon for the foreseeable future except for perhaps dream chaser).

Boeing has more interaction with Bigelow.

Yes.  That appears to be the case.  I would consider CST-100 to "generally look like dragon".  Anyway, not sure what we're debating here any more.   

[manboy]

Where did they say every Dragon is going to have a trunk for unpressurized cargo

Where did they say any Dragon was going to have a "service module"? Because, ya know, what they have said about service modules, and reusability, has indicated that such an evolution would come with a big slice of humble pie for them..

BEO missions are going to require more propellant than is carried in the Dragon capsule.

I'm pretty sure everyone thought you referring to manned Dragon spacecraft being used for the ISS or a commercial space station.

Much discussion about BEAM's width. But couldn't you fold it to be thin and long? It could solve a lot of clearance issues, and having the option of making a thin and long passage for humans might be critical to develop a centrifuge in the future. It could even have an internal structure much like a catheter for an internal truss.

Do you mean like an inflatable tunnel?

[Jim]

Where did they say every Dragon is going to have a trunk for unpressurized cargo

Where did they say any Dragon was going to have a "service module"? Because, ya know, what they have said about service modules, and reusability, has indicated that such an evolution would come with a big slice of humble pie for them..

BEO missions are going to require more propellant than is carried in the Dragon capsule.

I'm pretty sure everyone thought you referring to manned Dragon spacecraft being used for the ISS or a commercial space station.

I said non ISS.

[go4mars]

I said non ISS.

I had assumed we were talking about non-ISS but still earth orbit or near earth. 

I didn't realize you thought dragon would be used for BEO.

[docmordrid]

Along the lines of commonality, could the trunk now being aluminum make it possible to use it as the basis for a full BEO service module?

[baldusi]

Much discussion about BEAM's width. But couldn't you fold it to be thin and long? It could solve a lot of clearance issues, and having the option of making a thin and long passage for humans might be critical to develop a centrifuge in the future. It could even have an internal structure much like a catheter for an internal truss.

Do you mean like an inflatable tunnel?

Could be an inflatable tunnel. Could be a support structure of a centrifuge. If it could be bent it could be a Nautilus like centrifuge. I've noted that the ISS has lots of interference and plume impigment issues. Having cheap, robust tunnels and structure could help design a new system with either the sensitive parts (like solar panels, radiators, experiments) or the VV docking/berthing mechanisms far from the core.
Also, for a really good microgravity, you want to keep everything within the longitudinal center line of gravity. I.e. along the line of the effective orbit. The farther you go and you'd have some centripetal force, or tidal force, I forgot how to call it. At the same time, if you are looking for some serious gravity gradient experiments, it could go to the nadir direction.
If you could get 2.5x your length, and using the Atlas V long 5m fairing, you could get a 30m segment plus some 4m for the service part! You could build some serious centrifuge with those modules and some tension wires!

[Robotbeat]

Where did they say every Dragon is going to have a trunk for unpressurized cargo

Where did they say any Dragon was going to have a "service module"? Because, ya know, what they have said about service modules, and reusability, has indicated that such an evolution would come with a big slice of humble pie for them..

BEO missions are going to require more propellant than is carried in the Dragon capsule.

That's an important point. NASA will eventually have a need for commercial crew beyond LEO, at which point Dragon will need significantly more propellant than can reasonably fit inside the capsule portion. It will have to grow a real service module. Same for CST-100 (which kind of already has a sort of service module, though without the solar arrays that'd be needed for such a mission).

[ChefPat]

New pix of the factory up on the Bigelow site.

[cro-magnon gramps]

New pix of the factory up on the Bigelow site.

is that new fabrication plant construction? looks impressive whatever.
  btw Thanks Pat, I was beginning to think I was on the wrong thread, with all the talk of BEO and Dragon hint hint to others 

edit: tried bumping the OT subject matter to this thread; Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 5)

[Danderman]

Speaking about getting this thread back on topic, it appears that what is driving Bigelow back into activity is the prospect of getting a contract to build BEAM, a new hardware project for ISS.

Note that I have no clue what BEAM is.

[go4mars]

Would a bigelow module seem to be a good or likely solution for the "2 guys in shirtsleeves" working on asteroidal material for the company Planetary Resources?