Bigelow Aerospace Update Thread (2)

[baldusi]

Much discussion about BEAM's width. But couldn't you fold it to be thin and long? It could solve a lot of clearance issues, and having the option of making a thin and long passage for humans might be critical to develop a centrifuge in the future. It could even have an internal structure much like a catheter for an internal truss.

[go4mars]

Why?  Trunk is only applicable to cargo Dragon.  A non ISS crew Dragon is not going to have a trunk.  It will have a service module equivalent.

Why is a trunk only possible with cargo dragon or ISS crew flights?  A service module could take the form of a bigelow module in the trunk.  Then you still have the solar panels, radiators, etc.  Or is that too inefficient?  Do you envision essentially a trunk that is itself a service module that can swing around to the dragon's nose once in orbit, a build-up of which could make a long "snake" station or "ring" station? 

Also, no Dragon in a fairing.

I'm not suggesting that dragon would be in a fairing.  Just a bigelow module stowed in its trunk. 

There will be more pieces than just Dragon and its trunk.

Like a bigelow service module or hab module in the trunk?  What do you mean here?

The future will not be limited to F9 and Dragon paradigm.   The future is not going to be like Taco Bell on "Demolition Man" and all spacecraft are going to look like Dragon.

Excellent.  I should hope not!  But in the next 5-10 years, I can't count on warp drive either.  As far as I am aware, none of the other proposed crew alternatives have a large enough unpressurized storage area. 

[go4mars]

For what passengers?  the current dragon isn't going to be utilized enough beyond NASA.

Could be.  But I was musing that these would be passengers who would want to go to the module that they have stowed in the trunk (for the first ride).  For the next dragon-full of passengers, they would have 2 modules to go into.  3 modules for the next group, etc., as small modules slowly grow a station.  Every 4th flight or so might be extra supplies in the trunk instead of another module. 

[go4mars]

He builds in Las Vegas because he already owned the land, and it was near his current world headquarters.

Sundancer and BA330 are both transferable by truck.

BA2100 of course would not be, but considering even it the most successful future scenarios it's seriously doubtable that they will ship more than 1-2 a year, and the margin on them would be huge, using a cargo helicopter to transport to the nearest port is not out of the question.

Makes sense.  Thanks.  I didn't realize the 330 could be trucked.  That implies that it could fit into a dragon "trunk" diameter. 

[SpacexULA]

Does really make me wonder what the total cubic meters of a Cygnus/Trunk Bigelow/Dragon capsule would be.

Put toilet/consumables in Cygnus, living area in Mini Bigelow, and extra storage in Dragon till departure. 

~$200 Million manned Dragon
~$150 Million Logistics Cygnus
~$100 Million Mini Bigelow

~$400-$600 Million or 6 passengers (4 awake at any given time) in a spacecraft somewhere between the cubic meters of Soyut and Skylab? 

I know, not going to happen, but still fun to think about.

[go4mars]

Does really make me wonder what the total cubic meters of a Cygnus/Trunk Bigelow/Dragon capsule would be.

Put toilet/consumables in Cygnus, living area in Mini Bigelow, and extra storage in Dragon till departure. 

~$200 Million manned Dragon
~$150 Million Logistics Cygnus
~$100 Million Mini Bigelow

~$400-$600 Million or 6 passengers (4 awake at any given time) in a spacecraft somewhere between the cubic meters of Soyut and Skylab? 

I know, not going to happen, but still fun to think about.

The subsequent flights are even more fun to think about: 
Flight 2:  Leave the mini-bigelow in orbit from flight one, have the second mini-bigelow include the toilet.  $40 million per person?
Gets even more interesting from there...

[QuantumG]

Why?  Trunk is only applicable to cargo Dragon.  A non ISS crew Dragon is not going to have a trunk.  It will have a service module equivalent.

No.

[Jim]

Why?  Trunk is only applicable to cargo Dragon.  A non ISS crew Dragon is not going to have a trunk.  It will have a service module equivalent.

No.

They reply doesn't work for you.  You have nothing to back up your answer.

[SpacexULA]

They reply doesn't work for you.  You have nothing to back up your answer.

Why would they necessarily have to have a service section instead of a trunk?  Is there no way to fit enough life support in a dragon capsule to support them for the 3-4 day trip to the ISS + margin?

[Jim]

Excellent.  I should hope not!  But in the next 5-10 years,

It won't be much different than now, will be waiting for the 3rd flight of the FH.

[QuantumG]

They reply doesn't work for you.  You have nothing to back up your answer.

No. SpaceX have already spoken about this.. I figured you'd already know what they said.

[Jim]

He builds in Las Vegas because he already owned the land, and it was near his current world headquarters.

Sundancer and BA330 are both transferable by truck.

BA2100 of course would not be, but considering even it the most successful future scenarios it's seriously doubtable that they will ship more than 1-2 a year, and the margin on them would be huge, using a cargo helicopter to transport to the nearest port is not out of the question.

Makes sense.  Thanks.  I didn't realize the 330 could be trucked.  That implies that it could fit into a dragon "trunk" diameter. 

No,  the trunk is short and only 3M dia.  Also, the BA 330 is 45KLB's

[Jim]

They reply doesn't work for you.  You have nothing to back up your answer.

No. SpaceX have already spoken about this.. I figured you'd already know what they said.

Where did they say every Dragon is going to have a trunk for unpressurized cargo

[go4mars]

It won't be much different than now,

The future will not be limited to F9 and Dragon paradigm.   The future is not going to be like Taco Bell on "Demolition Man" and all spacecraft are going to look like Dragon.

Which one of these conflicting statements should I go with? 
As far as I know, dream chaser is the only paradigm that isn't a small capsule.   

[go4mars]

No,  the trunk is short and only 3M dia.  Also, the BA 330 is 45KLB's

14 feet long.  I didn't realize it was that short.  Yep.  Going to need FH with a long, thick neck to make this worthwhile I suppose. 

[QuantumG]

Where did they say every Dragon is going to have a trunk for unpressurized cargo

Where did they say any Dragon was going to have a "service module"? Because, ya know, what they have said about service modules, and reusability, has indicated that such an evolution would come with a big slice of humble pie for them..

[clongton]

I still don't get why Mr. Bigelow chose Las Vegas instead of near a coast or bargeable river-way for a production facility. 

Taxes

[SpacexULA]

He builds in Las Vegas because he already owned the land, and it was near his current world headquarters.

Sundancer and BA330 are both transferable by truck.

BA2100 of course would not be, but considering even it the most successful future scenarios it's seriously doubtable that they will ship more than 1-2 a year, and the margin on them would be huge, using a cargo helicopter to transport to the nearest port is not out of the question.

Makes sense.  Thanks.  I didn't realize the 330 could be trucked.  That implies that it could fit into a dragon "trunk" diameter. 

You can legally carry something up to 3 meters across and 16 Meters long  down a US highway with no special precautions, 3.5 and 20+ meters long with precautions and following certain routes. 

Just because it can go down the road does not mean it can fit in the Dragon's Trunk.

[mmeijeri]

As far as I know, dream chaser is the only paradigm that isn't a small capsule.   

Well, a full Bigelow module would also be a spacecraft, and it looks nothing like a capsule. It would have its own propulsion and could be launched on an EELV.

[go4mars]

Where did they say every Dragon is going to have a trunk for unpressurized cargo

Where did they say none of them will?  As long as the payment from tag-along satellites is more than the incremental cost of a trunk, it seems they all should.