Bigelow Aerospace Update Thread (2)

[grr]

....
For the node is it possible to have an American docking port on one side and a Russian docking port on the other? That would seem to me that it would be an added benefit.

Do iLIDS on both ends so you can berth these together, or dock with any of the American commercial vehicles. 
And then add an adapter for Russian system.

[krytek]

Mr. Big said he is willing to spend up to $320 million more (of his own money). 

Looks like he'll either need money from a partner, or he'll have to wait for cheaper launch costs to get his Big stuff up there.

$320 million isn't enough with today's launch costs to get it up there and do it right imo.  But $80M for a launch might entice him.  But then the market is limited to people who can pay $20 million or so to get there and back. 

But if things get reusable, he might have a bunch of sudden competition...

Anyone think he is waiting on FH success?  Or is he waiting for reusability?

Sundancer should be able to launch on F9 or Atlas V within that budget.

IIRC they canceled  the Sundancer.
FWIW I think there is a chance FH could launch 2 BA330 at the same time.

[Aeroman]

Mr. Big said he is willing to spend up to $320 million more (of his own money). 

Looks like he'll either need money from a partner, or he'll have to wait for cheaper launch costs to get his Big stuff up there.

$320 million isn't enough with today's launch costs to get it up there and do it right imo.  But $80M for a launch might entice him.  But then the market is limited to people who can pay $20 million or so to get there and back. 

But if things get reusable, he might have a bunch of sudden competition...

Anyone think he is waiting on FH success?  Or is he waiting for reusability?

Sundancer should be able to launch on F9 or Atlas V within that budget.

IIRC they canceled  the Sundancer.
FWIW I think there is a chance FH could launch 2 BA330 at the same time.

Could the FH launch a BA330 and the node?

Aeroman

[ChefPat]

FWIW I think there is a chance FH could launch 2 BA330 at the same time.

The Faring would have to be in the neighborhood of 100 feet long. I have my doubt's that would be feasible.
Launching a BA-330 with a substantial fraction of the water necessary for the interior water blanket/radiation shield would be a better bet.

[ChefPat]

Could the FH launch a BA330 and the node?
Aeroman

Weight wise the numbers are there, but again it would take a really funky Faring.

[docmordrid]

Anyone think he is waiting on FH success?  Or is he waiting for reusability?

Sundancer could easily go up on a Falcon 9 if the published 8.6 tonne mass is close, but AFAIK that doesn't include the prop bus/node. It would either have to go on another flight or (is this even possible?) a shortened bus/node created to fit in FH's fairing already attached to Sundancer.

[krytek]

FWIW I think there is a chance FH could launch 2 BA330 at the same time.

The Faring would have to be in the neighborhood of 100 feet long. I have my doubt's that would be feasible.
Launching a BA-330 with a substantial fraction of the water necessary for the interior water blanket/radiation shield would be a better bet.

You're proposing putting 2 on top of each other.
How wide is the BA330 when not inflated?

[Comga]

Could the FH launch a BA330 and the node?
Aeroman

Weight wise the numbers are there, but again it would take a really funky Faring.

Or design the "node" (or "nodes") to fit in the space between the BA330 and the dynamic envelope of the Fairing.

It has never made sense to me to make the BA330 sufficiently independent to operate without the node and support docking to it.  It seems so much simpler, from so many angles, to launch the BA330 as an integrated, self-sufficient spacecraft.  Bring up more capability later, like extra solar panels, but don't build a rendezvous and docking system and ACS that gets used only once.

[baldusi]

You're proposing putting 2 on top of each other.
How wide is the BA330 when not inflated?

Can't be sure. But 4.6m is the maximum of the Atlas 5/Delta IV/Falcon 9/Ariane 5/H-IIA/B 5m fairings. If you go to a 3.7m OD, then you can use 4m fairing. That would add the Proton, Zenit-2, Soyuz-2 and LM-2/3 to the mix.
I would guess that he expected to use the 4.6 faring, since the comparison to the 4.2m ISS modules leave very little space around the 3.3m or so core. Let's remember that the wall was supposedly 0.3m thick, and you had to fold it.

[ChefPat]

FWIW I think there is a chance FH could launch 2 BA330 at the same time.

The Faring would have to be in the neighborhood of 100 feet long. I have my doubt's that would be feasible.
Launching a BA-330 with a substantial fraction of the water necessary for the interior water blanket/radiation shield would be a better bet.

You're proposing putting 2 on top of each other.
How wide is the BA330 when not inflated?

I can't find it right now, but a BA-330 will fit into a lengthened 5.2 meter SpaceX payload faring. It would need to be lengthened due to the taper at the top & possibly because it'll need a payload adaptor. So in stowed configuration it's less than 4.6 meters diameter.

[manboy]

....
For the node is it possible to have an American docking port on one side and a Russian docking port on the other? That would seem to me that it would be an added benefit.

Do iLIDS on both ends so you can berth these together, or dock with any of the American commercial vehicles. 
And then add an adapter for Russian system.

Or better yet, equip the Soyuz with an IDSS compatible docking mechanism, it does use the same collar as APAS.

[RocketmanUS]

....
For the node is it possible to have an American docking port on one side and a Russian docking port on the other? That would seem to me that it would be an added benefit.

Do iLIDS on both ends so you can berth these together, or dock with any of the American commercial vehicles. 
And then add an adapter for Russian system.

Or better yet, equip the Soyuz with an IDSS compatible docking mechanism, it does use the same collar as APAS.

I'm referring to the nodes not the modules. It looks like the nodes have 5 docking ports and on the sixth side is for the propulsion bus. So just use one port ( two if customer wanted 2 ) on the node for Russian space craft ( not on all nodes ).

[Ronsmytheiii]

IIRC they canceled  the Sundancer. 

Sundancer is back in play

Updates:
Bigelow is currently providing information to NASA on what it would take to push a Sundancer out to EML2.  This is something being studied as "long term strategic vision" proposals for exploration systems.

[tigerade]

IIRC they canceled  the Sundancer. 

Sundancer is back in play

Updates:
Bigelow is currently providing information to NASA on what it would take to push a Sundancer out to EML2.  This is something being studied as "long term strategic vision" proposals for exploration systems.

*sigh* B.A. is incredibly confusing and contradictory is right now.  Even with a former employee posting here giving us insight, it's impossible to figure out what's really going on over there.

[Robotbeat]

IIRC they canceled  the Sundancer. 

Sundancer is back in play

Updates:
Bigelow is currently providing information to NASA on what it would take to push a Sundancer out to EML2.  This is something being studied as "long term strategic vision" proposals for exploration systems.

*sigh* B.A. is incredibly confusing and contradictory is right now.  Even with a former employee posting here giving us insight, it's impossible to figure out what's really going on over there.

They're kind of in stasis, not doing much of anything. They can't move forward with their own station until commercial crew is a lot further along (and Congress, of course, isn't helping the situation, even though the status quo hurts ISS in the long run and exports our capital overseas), and they can't build any extra modules for ISS until such a project is approved by NASA (nothing guarantees it ever will, either). All they're really doing right now is some paper studies and helping out with CST-100. And maybe a little work on their buildings, etc, but that is a capital outflow, not work they're getting paid for. That doesn't seem confusing to me.

The commercial market (i.e. Bigelow space station, etc) is being held back because of lack of a mature commercial crew solution, Congress is withholding funds from commercial crew because of lack of market (even though the real purpose of commercial crew, robust/redundant domestic ISS support at a competitive price, is just as important as it ever was, perhaps even more so now with Russia's problems).

[RocketmanUS]

IIRC they canceled  the Sundancer. 

Sundancer is back in play

Updates:
Bigelow is currently providing information to NASA on what it would take to push a Sundancer out to EML2.  This is something being studied as "long term strategic vision" proposals for exploration systems.

*sigh* B.A. is incredibly confusing and contradictory is right now.  Even with a former employee posting here giving us insight, it's impossible to figure out what's really going on over there.

They're kind of in stasis, not doing much of anything. They can't move forward with their own station until commercial crew is a lot further along (and Congress, of course, isn't helping the situation, even though the status quo hurts ISS in the long run and exports our capital overseas), and they can't build any extra modules for ISS until such a project is approved by NASA (nothing guarantees it ever will, either). All they're really doing right now is some paper studies and helping out with CST-100. And maybe a little work on their buildings, etc, but that is a capital outflow, not work they're getting paid for. That doesn't seem confusing to me.

The commercial market (i.e. Bigelow space station, etc) is being held back because of lack of a mature commercial crew solution, Congress is withholding funds from commercial crew because of lack of market (even though the real purpose of commercial crew, robust/redundant domestic ISS support at a competitive price, is just as important as it ever was, perhaps even more so now with Russia's problems).

If they made a Sundancer and tested it out on Earth before a launch would that not help sell the idea to Congress to pay for the launch to possible attach it to the ISS ( or as a free floater till checked out in orbit ). If and when it work would that not help move the market in the positive cash flow?

[Robotbeat]

That's pretty darned expensive and a strong capital outflow. They've already spent a lot. They already launched two subscale spacecraft into orbit. Their next launch probably needs to be something that can be used and make some money for the company, which means they need a crewed spacecraft to visit it. If that doesn't materialize, their business plan evaporates. Their only chance is to either wait until commercial crew is actually funded so that it can actually be operational in the near-term or to wait (probably a lot longer) until a crewed orbital spacecraft is developed independently. Thus, they go into hibernation as they are right now.

[A_M_Swallow]

If they are in hibernation then it may be worthwhile checking to see if they can use the same subsystems in both BEAM and Sundancer.

Also have a costed proposal for BEAM ready just in case the President decides he wants a jobs program in Nevada in the run up to the election.

[ChefPat]

This article has a little more detail into Orbital Debris update from last week & has a little more info too.

[yg1968]

Yes and they also interviewed a formal Bigelow employee. I wonder if that isn't Orbital Debris.