Bigelow Aerospace Update Thread (2)

[QuantumG]

What Bigelow does is build buildings, build full scale mockups and fly subscale models. 

They don't build full scale mockups.. their full scale stations are flight articles. They have flown two subscale flight articles. They also build subscale models, which they take to conferences and you can stand around and look at:

[go4mars]

They don't build full scale mockups.. their full scale stations are flight articles. They have flown two subscale flight articles. They also build subscale models, which they take to conferences and you can stand around and look at:

Great quote form that video:  "It's like a workshop for space age elves."  Got a chuckle from me anyways. 

[Robotbeat]

Updates:

The remaining workers are returning to full time. Previously they had gone to 1 unpaid furlough per pay period. (~10% pay cut)

"Recommenced hiring" - although I wouldn't expect a lot soon.  Probably backfilling those that have left since the September layoff. 

I knew they were doing bad but I didn't know they were doing that bad.

Perhaps this isn't clear here due to all the posts from those expecting ponies from Bigelow Real Soon Now...

Are any of those people still left, at least here on NSF?

[ChefPat]

Perhaps this isn't clear here due to all the posts from those expecting ponies from Bigelow

I thought you'd given up on the Playground insults. I guess not.

[QuantumG]

Are any of those people still left, at least here on NSF?

I still live in eternal hope that big money will show up that wants to remain independent from government funding, yeah. I love ponies.

[Dappa]

They don't build full scale mockups.. their full scale stations are flight articles.

Are you telling us that these are flight articles? Their so called 'flight articles' seem to have rather large holes in them, which would be kind of impractical in space.

Bigelow has built full scale mockups.

[Robert Thompson]

If he is doing so at a loss, he is providing a philanthropy in the form of a tangible, palpable microcosm that leverages spatial kinesthetics. If it had to be, I'd have Bigelow go flat broke, never building a fieldable article, all the while churning out quality miniature provocations and indictments. That causes awareness and erodes the present chilliness towards the risk necessary to do something that icky Newt licked. So do no more than build miniatures, Bigelow, but please send some to K12 school lobbies, science outreach centers, airports, malls? in a few key cities, and you will have done well. Someone will get the ponies. Not today.

[QuantumG]

Are you telling us that these are flight articles?

Yes.

Their so called 'flight articles' seem to have rather large holes in them, which would be kind of impractical in space.

It's called a missing panel.

Bigelow has built full scale mockups.

No.

[Jim]

Are you telling us that these are flight articles?

Yes.

Their so called 'flight articles' seem to have rather large holes in them, which would be kind of impractical in space.

It's called a missing panel.

Bigelow has built full scale mockups.

No.

The real answers are the opposite.
No, those are not flight articles
There are no such things as a "missing panel' on an inflatable module.  Those are holes cut into the module and the module has be modified to retain its rigidity, in a way not feasible in a flight version.
Those shown are full scale mockups.  They don't have flight systems installed and have special floors installed

[manboy]

Are you telling us that these are flight articles?

Yes.

"NASA Deputy Administrator Lori Garver views the inside of a full scale mockup of Bigelow Aerospace's Space Station Alpha during a tour of the Bigelow Aerospace facilities by the company's President Robert Bigelow on Friday, Feb. 4, 2011, in Las Vegas."

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nasahqphoto/5417051168/

[JohnFornaro]

No, those are not flight articles

Beat me to the punch.  Even I can tell, just from the pix, that they are not flight articles.  The 'floors' are a giveaway, for one thing, not to mention the 'holes', which are not access hatches. For another thing, were they indeed flight articles, it is likely at this point, that they would be orbiting, and ready for habitation, and Bigelow wouldn't be in this downsizing mode.

I do like ponies.  But I hope that they can find some paying customers to give them a pony or two.

[Danderman]

Perhaps this isn't clear here due to all the posts from those expecting ponies from Bigelow

I thought you'd given up on the Playground insults. I guess not.

The reason for my reminding people here that Bigelow isn't likely to do much without a big NASA contract is that this thread is polluted with posts about Bigelow sending large modules to EML-1 or some such other destination Real Soon Now.

This thread should be about Updates about what Bigelow is doing, not what people are dreaming about.  There is a whole Advanced Concepts section for  Bigelow Aerospace modules going to Mars.

[ChefPat]

Perhaps this isn't clear here due to all the posts from those expecting ponies from Bigelow

I thought you'd given up on the Playground insults. I guess not.

The reason for my reminding people here that Bigelow isn't likely to do much without a big NASA contract is that this thread is polluted with posts about Bigelow sending large modules to EML-1 or some such other destination Real Soon Now.

This thread should be about Updates about what Bigelow is doing, not what people are dreaming about.  There is a whole Advanced Concepts section for  Bigelow Aerospace modules going to Mars.

Please feel free to post a link then. If you wish to be taken seriously then drop the Playground language.

[Danderman]

Bigelow is currently providing information to NASA on what it would take to push a Sundancer out to EML2.  This is something being studied as "long term strategic vision" proposals for exploration systems.

I'd sure like to know what the rationale for this is.

My uninformed guess is that they are some what down the road on manufacuring a flight fidelity Sundancer.

-NASA gets a beyond LEO mission with "man rated" hardware.
-NASA gets flight data for a possible BEO tool
-Bigelow gets funds it desperately needs for hardware already somewhat completed
-Bigelow gets gravitas of a NASA mission
-Bigelow gets to prove out changes in design since the near decade at the time of this launch since Genesis II.

Seems like a win all the way around

I wouldn't argue with a single point you've made, my concern is the choice of EML-2 over EML-1.

I would suggest that the chief concern be that Bigelow doesn't have any customers, and NASA does not seem to be in a great hurry to become a customer.

[manboy]

I would suggest that the chief concern be that Bigelow doesn't have any customers, and NASA does not seem to be in a great hurry to become a customer.

I agree with this sentiment. Although I'm hoping once CCP comes online this may be different.

[Orbital Debris]

Gentlemen (or women), please.   

What kicked this off was my attempt at updates, so allow me to address a few things.
I think some of this is semantics, so I will define those in my terms:
Fullscale mockups (as shown in the pictures posted by Dappa) are a structures approximating the outer mold line and but not necessarily from the proper materials.  These are used for testing, fit checks and most importantly at Bigelow, visualization of the potential volume.  The picture posted shows a full size Sundancer on the left, and a BA300 on the right.  They are are actually fiberglass shells, piping is PVC painted silver, and other than the lighting, nothing is the same as flight quality. Those are full scale mockups.

Models (such as those shown at 2:17 in the video)are smaller scale representations shown for visualization and comparison of relative sizes, if given at the same scale.  In the video, there is a representation of the ISS Destiny module, Sundancer, BA330, and a 2100 concept shown at 1/30th scale.  The model makers at Bigelow were top notch as you can see on the video, an those models represent thousands of dollars of work in themselves.  Bigelow sent out dozens to potential customers.  Several scales of models were built (at 3:07 in the video you can see RTB showing Lori Garver a cutaway 1/3 scale BA330, and a 1/3 scale was sent to the Huntsville museum)  As fantastic as these models are, if you observe them at outings, please don't get hung up on details.  They are like the concept cars at an auto show and are not actual designs. 

On a sobering note, every model maker in that video was laid off last September, and Mr. Buckley is the only one still employed there.  There won't be any more of those models, they threw the mold in the trash.  Don't ask me why, I don't know.

With respect to flight articles.  Flight articles are fully functional items built to the design with the proper materials, and tested.  If it gets launched into space it is pretty much a flight article by definition.  Bigelow has not built flight articles in over 5 years. 

Please do not refer to Genesis 1 and 2 as models, subscale or otherwise.  My girls (and I spent enough time with them to call them mine) are full scale satellites in their own right, as much as Sputnik and other satellites.  By dint of effort by Bigelow controllers, they accumulated years of on-orbit data demonstrating the durability of the inflated softgoods.  US Space Command tracks them by ID's 31789 and 29252.  They are still in orbit, and will be for at least another 5 years. 

The post that revived this thread was about EML1/2 because that is a potential use that NASA is discussing, and the company is providing information for that. 

One of the reasons I post here is to temper what seems to be naive enthusiasm.  Bigelow's concept is great, but the execution is poor.  If people are to pin their hopes of Bigelow, they should not be duped. They do have a 300,000 square feet of building full of mockups and no flight productions.  If they are not careful there will be tumbleweeds blowing through.

My skepticism aside, I think providing NASA products will be beneficial for Bigelow.  It will prompt a level of rigor that will be necessary to prove due diligence to later customers if they ever make it that far.  Bigelow needs a little less monster garage and a little more NASA.

On the update side, I don't think I mentioned earlier that they are working towards pressure testing a BA330 full size restraint layer.

Sorry for the long winded post, carry on

[QuantumG]

The picture posted shows a full size Sundancer on the left, and a BA300 on the right.  They are are actually fiberglass shells, piping is PVC painted silver, and other than the lighting, nothing is the same as flight quality. Those are full scale mockups.

Sorry, I was misremembering a Bigelow comment about the ECLSS experiments.

[JohnFornaro]

My girls ... are full scale satellites in their own right, as much as Sputnik and other satellites.

I don't know a lot about the aerospace industry, but...  How do you tell they're girls and not boys?

Whoops.  Gotta go...

[robertross]

On a sobering note, every model maker in that video was laid off last September, and Mr. Buckley is the only one still employed there.  There won't be any more of those models, they threw the mold in the trash.  Don't ask me why, I don't know.

...
The post that revived this thread was about EML1/2 because that is a potential use that NASA is discussing, and the company is providing information for that. 

One of the reasons I post here is to temper what seems to be naive enthusiasm.  Bigelow's concept is great, but the execution is poor.  If people are to pin their hopes of Bigelow, they should not be duped. They do have a 300,000 square feet of building full of mockups and no flight productions.  If they are not careful there will be tumbleweeds blowing through.

...

On the update side, I don't think I mentioned earlier that they are working towards pressure testing a BA330 full size restraint layer.

Testing is good, and in this case good to see something positive happening.

That is sad to hear of the mold's destruction. Oh well, no sense crying now. But all the people laid off. Obviously it needs money to keep people, so not surprising, but unfortunate.

The building size note is worrisome. Without orders, that would need to be scaled back in short order (imo).

Sorry for the long winded post, carry on

No, thank you for setting the record straight for so many.

The concept has potential. Perhaps it just came a bit too early for the political & financial mess (realities) of today.

[Nate_Trost]

Considering the timing of the construction of the factory expansion, I kind of wonder if it in part happened because Bigelow was able to get a really good deal due to the construction sector getting hammered in the downturn.