Bigelow Aerospace Update Thread (2)

[Orbital Debris]

In the original CCDev, companies were allowed to submit only one proposal as the primary, and could be secondaries in as many others as they wanted. 

Bigelow submitted a proposal independently, and was a secondary on Boeing's for the CCDev1 proposal.   

This isn't new but hasn't been linked in this thread before. For historic purposes, here's what Bigelow's CCDev-2 capsule would have looked like (see at 2:50 of the video):
http://www.ulalaunch.com/site/Video/videos/NASAULA_SSA.wmv

That capsule was the Lockheed martin effort for Bigelow, Bigelow later switched to Boeing.

No Bigelow had its own capsule proposal for CCDev-1 (and I don't think LM was not involved with it). Boeing had a separate proposal. See the selection statement for CCDev-1.
http://www.hobbyspace.com/AAdmin/archive/Reference/CCDev_Source_Selection_Statement_signed-1.pdf

This is not correct with respect to the focus of Bigelow's proposal, however.  Since I worked on the proposals, I cannot go into the subject matter of the proposal. (AFAIK the rejected proposals are not in the public domain.) If you read the strengths in NASA's response that was posted by another user, it gives some hints. 

Of course, IMO  I find the NASA's weaknesses spot on, and they make me LMAO. 

[yg1968]

I made a typo. I meant that I don't think that LM was involved with Bigelow's CCDev-1 proposal. I suspect that Boeing was also involved in Bigelow's separate proposal for CCDev-1 which would make more sense. Boeing had mentionned in its September 2009 press release that it was working on 3 other proposals beside its own. 
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=849

To support the commercial space industry with space-platform and human-rated systems experience, Boeing also has joined three other teams competing for CCDev agreements. These teams are submitting their own separate proposals.

One of these teams was SNC and I suspect Bigelow was another one. 

[Danderman]

Bigelow Aerospace Sundancer Forward Propulsion System

http://www.dynetics.com/services/space/bigelow-aerospace-sundancer-forward-propulsion-system

Dynetics designed, qualified, produced, and delivered the forward propulsion system (FPS) for Sundancer, the world's first commercial space habitat. Our innovative, "green" FPS operates on hydrogen and oxygen generated from water, sweat, and wastewater from Bigelow's proprietary Environmental Control Life Support System (ECLSS). This eliminates toxic propellants such as hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide that are costly to use and harmful to the environment and creates a safer, cleaner work environment for humans on Earth and in space.

The FPS successfully completed a rigorous qualification test program, including thermal cycling, EMI, static loads, vibration and acoustic, and accelerated life testing consisting of 10,000 pulses.

The FPS can be adapted for other uses, including roll control for small launch vehicles, reaction control on larger upper stages, and attitude control on space craft.

[clongton]

Bigelow Aerospace Sundancer Forward Propulsion System

http://www.dynetics.com/services/space/bigelow-aerospace-sundancer-forward-propulsion-system

Dynetics designed, qualified, produced, and delivered the forward propulsion system (FPS) for Sundancer, the world's first commercial space habitat. Our innovative, "green" FPS operates on hydrogen and oxygen generated from water, sweat, and wastewater from Bigelow's proprietary Environmental Control Life Support System (ECLSS). This eliminates toxic propellants such as hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide that are costly to use and harmful to the environment and creates a safer, cleaner work environment for humans on Earth and in space.

The FPS successfully completed a rigorous qualification test program, including thermal cycling, EMI, static loads, vibration and acoustic, and accelerated life testing consisting of 10,000 pulses.

The FPS can be adapted for other uses, including roll control for small launch vehicles, reaction control on larger upper stages, and attitude control on space craft.

Pity there's no way to recapture the exhaust product, steam, for re-conversion back to water.

[A_M_Swallow]

Bigelow Aerospace Sundancer Forward Propulsion System

http://www.dynetics.com/services/space/bigelow-aerospace-sundancer-forward-propulsion-system

Dynetics designed, qualified, produced, and delivered the forward propulsion system (FPS) for Sundancer, the world's first commercial space habitat. Our innovative, "green" FPS operates on hydrogen and oxygen generated from water, sweat, and wastewater from Bigelow's proprietary Environmental Control Life Support System (ECLSS). This eliminates toxic propellants such as hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide that are costly to use and harmful to the environment and creates a safer, cleaner work environment for humans on Earth and in space.
{snip}

It is a shame that the 3 man Sundancer is being replaced by the 6 man BA330 spacestation.  I hope Dynetics can scale up the Forward Propulsion System, or possible fit two of them.

p.s.  Well done Dynetics.

[ChefPat]

Bigelow Aerospace Sundancer Forward Propulsion System

http://www.dynetics.com/services/space/bigelow-aerospace-sundancer-forward-propulsion-system

Dynetics designed, qualified, produced, and delivered the forward propulsion system (FPS) for Sundancer, the world's first commercial space habitat. Our innovative, "green" FPS operates on hydrogen and oxygen generated from water, sweat, and wastewater from Bigelow's proprietary Environmental Control Life Support System (ECLSS). This eliminates toxic propellants such as hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide that are costly to use and harmful to the environment and creates a safer, cleaner work environment for humans on Earth and in space.

The FPS successfully completed a rigorous qualification test program, including thermal cycling, EMI, static loads, vibration and acoustic, and accelerated life testing consisting of 10,000 pulses.

The FPS can be adapted for other uses, including roll control for small launch vehicles, reaction control on larger upper stages, and attitude control on space craft.

How recent is this news?

[tigerade]

Bigelow Aerospace Sundancer Forward Propulsion System

http://www.dynetics.com/services/space/bigelow-aerospace-sundancer-forward-propulsion-system

Dynetics designed, qualified, produced, and delivered the forward propulsion system (FPS) for Sundancer, the world's first commercial space habitat. Our innovative, "green" FPS operates on hydrogen and oxygen generated from water, sweat, and wastewater from Bigelow's proprietary Environmental Control Life Support System (ECLSS). This eliminates toxic propellants such as hydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide that are costly to use and harmful to the environment and creates a safer, cleaner work environment for humans on Earth and in space.

The FPS successfully completed a rigorous qualification test program, including thermal cycling, EMI, static loads, vibration and acoustic, and accelerated life testing consisting of 10,000 pulses.

The FPS can be adapted for other uses, including roll control for small launch vehicles, reaction control on larger upper stages, and attitude control on space craft.

How recent is this news?

Not sure how it's relevant at all.  Sundancer has been canceled for awhile now.

[Comga]

Bigelow Aerospace Sundancer Forward Propulsion System

http://www.dynetics.com/services/space/bigelow-aerospace-sundancer-forward-propulsion-system

How recent is this news?

A search did not find this at all in the Dynetics new archive, but a date in the code says that it was last year.

[RocketmanUS]

Sundancer nice size module and mass. Could have launched on F9.
Less cost to launch than the BA330 and build. I would think Sundancer would be easier to design too, plus what they had already progressed for it.

I do not see why it could not handle six crew if it had out side power attached to it.

With a node and propulsion bus added could have been a good starter station. Add the BA-330 later after Sundancer station and commercial crew flying. Could be good for a Lagrange Point station, add an airlock and manipulator arm.

Personally I think they should bring it back.

[apace]

Personally I think they should bring it back.

Why they should do that? At the time the first commercial availables crew vehicles are ready (around 2016/2017), Falcon Heavy is also ready to send BA330 into space. Why waste money for the next years on projects which are not needed. And I'm sure, he had enough talks with his customers to know, which kind of space station they like to have.

[krytek]

There was a recent interview with Bigelow about this same issue. If I'm not mistaken Bigelow said the Sundancer propulsion module can be adopted the the BA-330 and is in this way the only part of the BA-330 which has been already produced (can't review the video again right now, please verify if you bother to watch it).

http://moonandback.com/2011/11/28/moonandback-interview-with-robert-bigelow-part-1-1950s-nevada-ufos/

http://moonandback.com/2011/11/29/moonandback-interview-with-robert-bigelow-part-2-space-stations-and-transport/

http://moonandback.com/2011/11/30/moonandback-interview-with-robert-bigelow-part-3-pluses-and-minuse/

http://moonandback.com/2011/12/01/moonandback-interview-with-robert-bigelow-part-4-highlights-and-plans/

[RocketmanUS]

Personally I think they should bring it back.

Why they should do that? At the time the first commercial availables crew vehicles are ready (around 2016/2017), Falcon Heavy is also ready to send BA330 into space. Why waste money for the next years on projects which are not needed. And I'm sure, he had enough talks with his customers to know, which kind of space station they like to have.

Lower cost to make and launch. Falcon 9 most likely would be available to launch it and the node and propulsion unit on seperate launches, plus Dragon cargo. For crew Soyuz, after that Atlas with CTS-100 or Dreamchaser, then crew Dragon.
Could be delivered sooner.
Less mass to move around in space when needed to move ( altitude control ).
Good size for L 1 or 2 station ( could make a good station for what Boeing has planned for lunar with L point station ).
Prove it works with smaller investment money, can have money left over to launch a version 2 if there were problem(s) with version 1. Then add a larger module (BA300 or larger ) later depending on what launchers are available.

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

In respect to why build a Sundancer: actually Bigelow in Part 2 of the moonandback interviews, said that the Sundancer would cost nearly the same as that of a BA330 to develop build and launch as that of a BA330. So with schedules moving to the right it no longer made economic sense to pursue the Sundancer because of limited availability of time.

In Part 3 he addressed the prop systems built for the Sundancers saying that they are easily adaptable to the BA330 and that they had 2 complete sets of flight hardware.

[Nate_Trost]

In Part 3 he addressed the prop systems built for the Sundancers saying that they are easily adaptable to the BA330 and that they had 2 complete sets of flight hardware.

Of course, now that Bigelow has had to lay off people and put off plans, the veil of secrecy has been opened a bit. And it seems to reveal that Bigelow has his own version of the patented Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field.

[RocketmanUS]

ISS Exploration Platform Concept ( PDF )
http://ipv6.nasa.gov/pdf/604659main_6%20-%20Panel%203_Raftery_Final.pdf

It shows a Bigelow inflatable module on page 6.

How does this fit into Bigelows plans on having a module ready in the near future for a possible L1/2 station?

[Danderman]

And I'm sure, he had enough talks with his customers to know, which kind of space station they like to have.

You are assuming that there are customers. Given that Bigelow is laying off people, the implication is that there are no customers.

If there are customers, they are the kind of customers who can wait 10 years for the product or service.

[Comga]

ISS Exploration Platform Concept ( PDF )
http://ipv6.nasa.gov/pdf/604659main_6%20-%20Panel%203_Raftery_Final.pdf

It shows a Bigelow inflatable module on page 6.

How does this fit into Bigelows plans on having a module ready in the near future for a possible L1/2 station?

The Bigelow free flying module on page 6 is apro pos of almost nothing.

Page 7 uses the name "Transhab" for a mission module for deep space, but has the first as an MPLM derived hard shell and the second gen is possibly an inflatable.  It doesn't seem like Bigelow is part of the planning.  Maybe Dover. 

Where has Bigelow said he was planning on a system for L1/2?  If the company is in hibernation until LEO transport is available, it might as well go into cryogenic storage waiting for transportation to EML1/2.

[RocketmanUS]

ISS Exploration Platform Concept ( PDF )
http://ipv6.nasa.gov/pdf/604659main_6%20-%20Panel%203_Raftery_Final.pdf

It shows a Bigelow inflatable module on page 6.

How does this fit into Bigelows plans on having a module ready in the near future for a possible L1/2 station?

The Bigelow free flying module on page 6 is apro pos of almost nothing.

Page 7 uses the name "Transhab" for a mission module for deep space, but has the first as an MPLM derived hard shell and the second gen is possibly an inflatable.  It doesn't seem like Bigelow is part of the planning.  Maybe Dover. 

Where has Bigelow said he was planning on a system for L1/2?  If the company is in hibernation until LEO transport is available, it might as well go into cryogenic storage waiting for transportation to EML1/2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigelow_Aerospace
http://www.parabolicarc.com/2010/01/24/bigelow-inflatable-l1-lunar-bases-drawing-boards/
http://www.hobbyspace.com/nucleus/index.php?itemid=3402
For L1, good question to ask were it was stated.

I was just referring to a Bigelow module on the Boeing plan for a L1 station from their PDF.

Note
I think if Bigelow did get a module in LEO and running that it would give another good reason to get the commercial crew taxi's up and running sooner than 2017.

How long can a BA330 go without a crew after launch?
Could a robotic mission to the module work? 

[MP99]

Dynetics designed, qualified, produced, and delivered the forward propulsion system (FPS) for Sundancer, the world's first commercial space habitat. Our innovative, "green" FPS operates on hydrogen and oxygen generated from water, sweat, and wastewater from Bigelow's proprietary Environmental Control Life Support System (ECLSS).

Pity there's no way to recapture the exhaust product, steam, for re-conversion back to water.

 



cheers, Martin

[ChefPat]

Where has Bigelow said he was planning on a system for L1/2?

EML-1: the next logical destination

January 24, 2011

[snip]

Bigelow Aerospace has proposed using EML-1 as an aggregation point for modules to be emplaced on the Moon’s surface using Armadillo Aerospace rockets for the descent.

[snip]

Private Moon Bases a Hot Idea for Space Pioneer

14 April 2010

[snip]

 Bigelow and his team are sketching out architectures to also put their structures in the Lagrangian Point L1 — partway between the moon and the Earth — and also used as depots for outbound expeditions to Mars.

[snip]