Bigelow Aerospace Update Thread (2)

[Orbital Debris]

ISS inflatable module is still under consideration. Bigelow is in discussions to develop requirements and integration tasks.

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

An ISS module would have a more moderate set of requirments for power, thermal and life support than a stand alone Sundancer. It should be easy to meet the requirements starting with Sundancer development even as little as it has ironed out in design.

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

I believe NASA would first launch the spare Unity module probably on a Atlas V 521 then the Sundancer like module on a Atlas V 511. This would give aditional capability for birthing to ISS with the possibility of creating additional NDS docking ports as well by adding the NDS adaptors to the ACBM ports on the Unity module. Total Launch costs for such a program of ~$250M plus Unity checkout and processing of about $100M and then the purchase of the Sundancer like module of $150-250M. Total project costs of $500M to $600M spread across 3-5 years. The ISS budget could possibly support this spending of $50-200M a year. The largest costs would be in the out years when the modules are launched starting 2-3 years from now. Purchase of LV's at 18 months prior of ~50% of all launch costs. Currently the project looks very attractive to ISS management.

[Danderman]

Notional solar arrays and radiators, due to the fact mgmt could not get a handle on power or thermal budgets.

Without customer input, it would be difficult to estimate thermal and power requirements. Those foreign MOUs were not too useful in this regard.

[HIP2BSQRE]

I believe NASA would first launch the spare Unity module probably on a Atlas V 521 then the Sundancer like module on a Atlas V 511. This would give aditional capability for birthing to ISS with the possibility of creating additional NDS docking ports as well by adding the NDS adaptors to the ACBM ports on the Unity module. Total Launch costs for such a program of ~$250M plus Unity checkout and processing of about $100M and then the purchase of the Sundancer like module of $150-250M. Total project costs of $500M to $600M spread across 3-5 years. The ISS budget could possibly support this spending of $50-200M a year. The largest costs would be in the out years when the modules are launched starting 2-3 years from now. Purchase of LV's at 18 months prior of ~50% of all launch costs. Currently the project looks very attractive to ISS management.

Are you saying this is moving forward???

[Danderman]

I believe NASA would first launch the spare Unity module probably on a Atlas V 521 then the Sundancer like module on a Atlas V 511. This would give aditional capability for birthing to ISS with the possibility of creating additional NDS docking ports as well by adding the NDS adaptors to the ACBM ports on the Unity module. Total Launch costs for such a program of ~$250M plus Unity checkout and processing of about $100M and then the purchase of the Sundancer like module of $150-250M. Total project costs of $500M to $600M spread across 3-5 years. The ISS budget could possibly support this spending of $50-200M a year. The largest costs would be in the out years when the modules are launched starting 2-3 years from now. Purchase of LV's at 18 months prior of ~50% of all launch costs. Currently the project looks very attractive to ISS management.

Are you saying this is moving forward???

Let me play Jim for a moment:

"No".

Let me play Jim in a generous mood for a moment:

"No, there is no budget for this at NASA".

[A_M_Swallow]

ISS inflatable module is still under consideration. Bigelow is in discussions to develop requirements and integration tasks.

Bigelow Aerospace does not have infinite money so assume that the hotel modules will have the same ECLSS, galley and toilets as the ISS module.  The ISS module will probably be used as a flying test bed to debug these machines; so there may be tiny differences.

The writers of the MOUs can be officially asked to estimate the power requirements of any machines they hope to take to their leased Bigelow module.  The answers can feed into both the power and cooling budgets.

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

I believe NASA would first launch the spare Unity module probably on a Atlas V 521 then the Sundancer like module on a Atlas V 511. This would give aditional capability for birthing to ISS with the possibility of creating additional NDS docking ports as well by adding the NDS adaptors to the ACBM ports on the Unity module. Total Launch costs for such a program of ~$250M plus Unity checkout and processing of about $100M and then the purchase of the Sundancer like module of $150-250M. Total project costs of $500M to $600M spread across 3-5 years. The ISS budget could possibly support this spending of $50-200M a year. The largest costs would be in the out years when the modules are launched starting 2-3 years from now. Purchase of LV's at 18 months prior of ~50% of all launch costs. Currently the project looks very attractive to ISS management.

Are you saying this is moving forward???

Let me play Jim for a moment:

"No".

Let me play Jim in a generous mood for a moment:

"No, there is no budget for this at NASA".

You are correct, even if a project is attractive to management they still have to get funding.

[Danderman]

ISS inflatable module is still under consideration. Bigelow is in discussions to develop requirements and integration tasks.

Bigelow Aerospace does not have infinite money so assume that the hotel modules will have the same ECLSS, galley and toilets as the ISS module.  The ISS module will probably be used as a flying test bed to debug these machines; so there may be tiny differences.

The writers of the MOUs can be officially asked to estimate the power requirements of any machines they hope to take to their leased Bigelow module.  The answers can feed into both the power and cooling budgets.

First off, Bigelow is not necessarily in the hotel business, he was looking at industrial customers, who may have power and thermal requirements in excess of what tourists would require. The problem is that he didn't get MOUs with anyone who could give him a realistic estimate of actual industrial system requirements. The "writers of the MOUs" could not give him actual requirements.

[A_M_Swallow]

Until Bigelow comes up with a short description of what he is doing he is stuck with space hotel.  Although since there is no maid to clean the place, chef, waitress or concierge then youth hostel may be a better name.

[Orbital Debris]

Current ISS module (BEAM) is nothing like sundancer.  It is only slightly larger than Genesis. No truss, no eclss, no power, just a shell.
 

[Ronsmytheiii]

Current ISS module (BEAM) is nothing like sundancer.  It is only slightly larger than Genesis. No truss, no eclss, no power, just a shell.
 

Under the flagship demonstration schedule there was a mention of adding advanced ECLSS to an inflatable at a later time, would beam support it or would a new module be required?

Edit: pg 12 and 13: http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/457439main_EEWS_FlagshipTechnologyDemonstrations.pdf

[RocketmanUS]

Re: Sundancer - without arguing semantics, it is shelved, no one is working on it. I would estimate it was 30% coomplete.  One propulsion system (H2/O2, RCS really) was purchased and plumbed for the structure. Restraint layer and structure was designed (and redesigned a couple of times) but never had a modal analysis done. Final MMOD config was under eval. ECLSS never got beyond proof of concept  stage. Notional solar arrays and radiators, due to the fact mgmt could not get a handle on power or thermal budgets.

ECLSS stand for?
Can the Sundancer module receive power from ouside it's self?
Bigelow budget- does he have the money ( liquide ) or was the investment of up to $500M based on future income?

[Comga]

ECLSS stand for?

Environmental Control and Life Support System (I believe...)

[Comga]

Re: Sundancer - without arguing semantics, it is shelved, no one is working on it. I would estimate it was 30% complete.  (snip)

Can the Sundancer module receive power from outside itself?

What part of "shelved" and "30% complete" was unclear?   
Potential capabilities of platforms no longer being developed are indeterminate.

[Patchouli]

Current ISS module (BEAM) is nothing like sundancer.  It is only slightly larger than Genesis. No truss, no eclss, no power, just a shell.
 

Under the flagship demonstration schedule there was a mention of adding advanced ECLSS to an inflatable at a later time, would beam support it or would a new module be required?

Edit: pg 12 and 13: http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/457439main_EEWS_FlagshipTechnologyDemonstrations.pdf

OT but the SEP stage demonstrator seems like something that should be funded as it would be more important to future exploration then even SLS.

[RocketmanUS]

Re: Sundancer - without arguing semantics, it is shelved, no one is working on it. I would estimate it was 30% complete.  (snip)

Can the Sundancer module receive power from outside itself?

What part of "shelved" and "30% complete" was unclear?   
Potential capabilities of platforms no longer being developed are indeterminate.

Either Sundancer or BA-330
Can either module receive power from outside itself? Such as like ISS modules get power from their solar array? ( was it planned on in the design )

[jedsmd]

Jay Ingham (BA VP) overviews BA 330 progress to date:

Expandable Pressure Vessel
ECLSS
Avionics


http://forum.bigelowaerospace.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12

[ChefPat]

Jay Ingham (BA VP) overviews BA 330 progress to date:

Expandable Pressure Vessel
ECLSS
Avionics


http://forum.bigelowaerospace.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12

When did Bigelow establish a Discussion Board?

[8900]

Jay Ingham (BA VP) overviews BA 330 progress to date:

Expandable Pressure Vessel
ECLSS
Avionics


http://forum.bigelowaerospace.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12

When did Bigelow establish a Discussion Board?

There are only a few threads on that discussion board, my guess is the board has appeared for less than a month