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#60
by
renclod
on 04 Aug, 2011 17:23
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...launching a full-up orbital Atlas with the intent to have range-safety blow it up mid-flight. That's ballsy.
A full live Centaur would not be required there.
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#61
by
Jim
on 04 Aug, 2011 17:26
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...launching a full-up orbital Atlas with the intent to have range-safety blow it up mid-flight. That's ballsy.
A full live Centaur would not be required there.
But it will be since:
a. TLYF
b. It can't be flown empty
c. it can't be flown with different fluid
d. too much engineering to do the above
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#62
by
ugordan
on 04 Aug, 2011 17:29
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Does it need a real RL-10 though, or would some mockup/mass simulator suffice?
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#63
by
Ronsmytheiii
on 04 Aug, 2011 17:37
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Does it need a real RL-10 though, or would some mockup/mass simulator suffice?
Would probably depend on where they do the abort, however would like to know whether or not the range would still need to activate the destruct device, and whether or not a centaur could continue to orbit after the simulated abort (ride for CRYOTE?)
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#64
by
Chris Bergin
on 04 Aug, 2011 17:44
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Has anyone seen any decent hi res images of Atlas with CST-100?
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#65
by
JosephB
on 04 Aug, 2011 17:50
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Has anyone seen any decent hi res images of Atlas with CST-100?
with the single solid?
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#66
by
renclod
on 04 Aug, 2011 17:51
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Would probably depend on where they do the abort,
At max drag , probably, close to Mach 1 (like they say in the presser, transonic).
however would like to know whether or not the range would still need to activate the destruct device,
TLYF ? they probably will.
and whether or not a centaur could continue to orbit after the simulated abort (ride for CRYOTE?)
No way. IMO.
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#67
by
ugordan
on 04 Aug, 2011 17:52
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Would probably depend on where they do the abort
I would think they'd want do the abort test at max-Q which is well within 1st stage burn. Centaur's primary purpose would then be to provide guidance to the vehicle and provide a large s#!tload of explosive stuff.
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#68
by
erioladastra
on 04 Aug, 2011 17:59
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Apparently, two lucky Boeing test pilots will get to fly the CST-100 to the ISS on its first crewed flight!
I'm sure there will be room for a third tag-along ISS fan who could blog the whole thing for NSF - no fee required, I'll sign any waiver you want! 
I think you misheard or misread something. The first manned flight isn't planned to dock to ISS.
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#69
by
Space Pete
on 04 Aug, 2011 18:02
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I think you misheard or misread something. The first manned flight isn't planned to dock to ISS.
Ah, I see - so just a rendezvous, and no docking?
I'd still take that.
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#70
by
Chris Bergin
on 04 Aug, 2011 18:04
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Has anyone seen any decent hi res images of Atlas with CST-100?
with the single solid?
Doesn't have to be, just need something for the lead image.
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#71
by
edkyle99
on 04 Aug, 2011 18:14
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The strap-on solid bothers me for crewed flight.
But Liberty's solid first stage doesn't?
A strap-on booster adds failure modes compared to a straight two-stage launch vehicle. Liberty would be a two stage rocket with one motor and one liquid engine. Atlas 421 will be a 2.5 stage rocket with one solid strap-on motor and three liquid engines using four thrust chambers/nozzles. More components and separation events equals more failure modes.
From ESAS:
"Augmentation of the medium-lift class systems with solid strap-on boosters ... poses an issue for crew safety regarding small strap-on Solid Rocket Motor (SRM) reliability, as determined by the Orbital Space Plane-ELV (OSP–ELV) Flight Safety Certification Study report, dated March 2004"
- Ed Kyle
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#72
by
Ben the Space Brit
on 04 Aug, 2011 18:28
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Frankly, Ed, I would be more willing to trust my safety to the Aerojet SRB (or even the ATK GEMs) with dozens of missions between them, than the RSRM-V-inline which has none and has serious flight dynamic issues that may make an abort during burn impossible.
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#73
by
marsavian
on 04 Aug, 2011 18:34
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So what does the future hold for the Delta IV? Looks like it's the loser in all the CCDEV choices. Is there enough other business for it to remain viable?
That's a question that we've been discussion on various EELV-oriented threads. Purely FWIW, I suspect that being 'All-American' (i.e. no pesky Energomash or NK Engines core engines), Delta-IV will still get some DoD business to secure its future for the short-term (until ~2020). Indeed, the selection of Atlas-V-412 by Boeing actually improves Delta-IV's prospects as fewer Atlas-V launch slots will be available for DoD and other USG cargo payloads. Long term, DoD is looking to develop such goodies as fly-back boosters and such things, so the EELVs will likely be replaced by the 2030s.
There's a long term elephant in the room when it comes to Atlas V and that is the long term supply of cheap RD-180s. 101 were ordered and 50 have been delivered so far at a unit cost of around $10m each. The Russians have recently complained they are being sold at half production cost so expect any new ones after the batch of 101 to start at $30+m. This will change the future cost equation against Delta IV especially the RS-68A ones and steps are also being taken to make their manufacturing cheaper too as part of the ULA arrangement.
http://www.aeroworld.net/5th06177.htmhttp://www.npoenergomash.ru/eng/engines/rd180/http://www.spacenews.com/commentaries/110512-fromwires-engine-maker-half-cost-sales.html
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#74
by
Chris Bergin
on 04 Aug, 2011 18:35
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#75
by
Lee Jay
on 04 Aug, 2011 18:41
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#76
by
Jim
on 04 Aug, 2011 18:44
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This will change the future cost equation against Delta IV especially the RS-68A ones and steps are also being taken to make their manufacturing cheaper too as part of the ULA arrangement.
still not enough to make Delta IV competitive.
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#77
by
Ben the Space Brit
on 04 Aug, 2011 18:46
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@ marsavian,
Agreed that the RD-180 supply would dry up a lot quicker. That is obviouisly something that would have to be remedied as a matter of priority.
That said, there is some talk about ultimately replacing the 'stock' -180, either with US-built RD-180s or some other US-built engine. 2 x AJ-26-500 has been mentioned but I don't know with how much authority.
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#78
by
KEdward5
on 04 Aug, 2011 18:47
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#79
by
Chris Bergin
on 04 Aug, 2011 18:52
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Heh, thanks. Atlas V is doing an impression of Charlie Sheen, lately.
Dream Chaser, Blue Origin, CST-100.....Winning!
