### Author Topic: Spacex and the Moon?  (Read 35126 times)

#### ugordan

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #20 on: 07/31/2011 02:40 PM »
The mass that the falcon heavy can send to TLI is ~16t.

That number sounds too optimistic to me.

#### 2552

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #21 on: 07/31/2011 02:47 PM »

#### Jim

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #22 on: 07/31/2011 02:48 PM »
So was Falcon (9) Heavy this time last year

The heavy was always part of the F9 plan and is needed to complete with other vehicles performance wise

#### rklaehn

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #23 on: 07/31/2011 03:36 PM »
The mass that the falcon heavy can send to TLI is ~16t.

That number sounds too optimistic to me.

You start off with 53000kg in LEO. Assuming a semi-major axis for the TLI orbit of 200000km (about half the lunar SMA), and starting with a 200km LEO staging orbit, we get 3133 m/s of delta-V for the TLI.

Assuming an Isp of 338s or 3315.78m/s, we get a mass ratio of 2.5725. Now, how much payload you get depends on the dry weight of the third stage. Assuming 5000kg dry weight and 2000kg residuals, we get a mass to TLI of

(53000kg+7000kg)*1/2.57-7000kg=16324.33kg

I think these are pretty conservative numbers for dry weight and residuals. Now, the big question is if they can really make 53t to LEO, but on that we just have to take their word.
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#### corneliussulla

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #24 on: 07/31/2011 04:16 PM »
Well hopefully soon he will put forward his ideas. I think if he does announce a return to the moon even if only to lunar orbit or free return people will start to wonder how Nasa spends so much more and never gets anywhere. I think with New US Budget restrictions and Musk putting people in Lunar Orbit. Congreess will need to look again at SLS. Falcon XX will start to look like a no brainer Still there is plenty of No brainers in the house ...just look at the last week

#### MikeAtkinson

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #25 on: 07/31/2011 04:23 PM »
Everyone has assumed a manned spaceflight, I think it much more likely that he means an unmanned landing of one of the Google Moon prize entrants.

#### ChefPat

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #26 on: 07/31/2011 04:25 PM »
While it would be nice to do a Lunar Free Return Mission, wouldn't be more likely that a GLXP contestant is ready to make a try?
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#### douglas100

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #27 on: 07/31/2011 04:33 PM »
While it would be nice to do a Lunar Free Return Mission, wouldn't be more likely that a GLXP contestant is ready to make a try?

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#### Zed_Noir

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #28 on: 07/31/2011 04:51 PM »
Think SpaceX might firm up the launch of the Astroboticstech/Carnegie Mellon  mission as part of the Google Lunar X-Prize race with maybe other contestants.

It's just a basic Falcon 9 rocket to be launched around the end 2013 to landed a small rover on the moon from a lander. The mass for the lander with the rover is about 2.5 mT with propellants. and 0.8 mT without. The rover will have HD video in 3D.

All Google Lunar X-prize contestants get a discount from SpaceX for launch services the last time I read up on this topic.

edited with revised mass numbers
« Last Edit: 08/01/2011 01:25 PM by Zed_Noir »

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #29 on: 07/31/2011 05:05 PM »
Instead of landing the whole dragon on the moon you could have astronauts just be in space suits on a landing / accent platform.

#### oiorionsbelt

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #30 on: 07/31/2011 06:09 PM »
Elon mentions a lunar flyby with FH and Dragon as being "kinda cool" in the Falcon Heavy press conference.

Remarks start at 31.50
« Last Edit: 07/31/2011 06:12 PM by oiorionsbelt »

#### douglas100

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #31 on: 07/31/2011 06:22 PM »
Elon mentions a lunar flyby with FH and Dragon as being "kinda cool" in the Falcon Heavy press conference.

It might indeed be cool, but the reality is that SpaceX needs to be focused on ensuring that F9 flies regularly and reliably and that Dragon works as advertised. People should stop taking Musk's off the cuff remarks at face value.
Douglas Clark

#### krytek

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #32 on: 07/31/2011 06:58 PM »
Well Elon always says the public relates to firsts and superlatives, so not entirely out of the question. But it's still hard to imagine him launching something like that without a customer, otherwise it's gonna be a really expensive publicity stunt.

A little farther than apollo, isn't it the farthest any human being traveled away from Earth?

#### baldusi

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #33 on: 07/31/2011 07:59 PM »
The Astrobotics lander is completely built and was sent out for testing, so I don't think it's too far fetched to think that they are going to put a press release and putting a more "firm" launch date in the manifest. The Payload's Planner Guide, also talks about a second and third flights (2013/14/15). So may be they found a sponsor for a second flight.

#### ugordan

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #34 on: 07/31/2011 08:21 PM »
The Astrobotics lander is completely built and was sent out for testing

Completely built? They only built the lander structure AFAIK.

#### baldusi

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #35 on: 07/31/2011 08:30 PM »
The Astrobotics lander is completely built and was sent out for testing

Completely built? They only built the lander structure AFAIK.

You are right, it "flight-ready structure". Whatever that means

#### Ben the Space Brit

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #36 on: 07/31/2011 08:55 PM »
A BEO-rated version of the Crewed Dragon capsule with extra LSS consumables in the trunk + the existing Falcon Heavy would allow a free-return Lunar fly-by for, say, two passengers and a pilot.  That doesn't offer much in the way of science but it might be salable as a space tourist product.
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#### Seer

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #37 on: 07/31/2011 09:12 PM »
Doesn't falcon heavy have enough payload capacity for a Dragon lunar orbit mission? Dragon only needs to be 8 tonnes with 2.5 tonnes fuel to get back to earth from lunar orbit. The FH upper stage is say, 5 tonnes, so 13 tonnes altogether to be entered into llo.

#### corneliussulla

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #38 on: 07/31/2011 09:23 PM »
For those who are conjecturing that Elon maybe looking at a unmanned xprize type flight. It is not the way the article reads. They are discussing the dragons capability to land on other planets. They then ask him what is his first destination. Elon says he wont reveal his first destination but then says he may soon have an announcement to make concerning moon flights. Flights not flight.

I think we are looking at Lunar tourism. I see that james cameroon (avatar director) has already said he would like to take a trip to moon and is willing to pay. I am, sure there are other wealthy people who would take the trip. If you have two tourists on each flight at 100 mill a pop. There could be enough people interested for say 6-12 trips a year for many years

#### ChefPat

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##### Re: Spacex and the Moon?
« Reply #39 on: 07/31/2011 09:27 PM »
I think we are looking at Lunar tourism. I see that james cameroon (avatar director) has already said he would like to take a trip to moon and is willing to pay. I am, sure there are other wealthy people who would take the trip. If you have two tourists on each flight at 100 mill a pop. There could be enough people interested for say 6-12 trips a year for many years
And I thought I was a wild eyed optimist.
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