Heirs to the Shuttle

[marsavian]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14089297

All compared graphically dimension wise with each other and the Shuttle. Dragon/Blue Origin vehicle are bigger than I imagined and Dreamchaser looks like a just born baby Shuttle . Linked tabs have more info/pics.

[alexterrell]

There's a good concise comparison here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14089297

Two points to note:

1. The shuttle is BIG. I saw the full size mock up in Belgium and only then do you realise how big it is. In the image the successors just seem really small.

2. MPCV is expensive. Funding so far: $5 billion, compared to $100 million or so for the others. And yet is MPCV nearer flight than Dragon? I know MPCV is more capable than Dragon but even so, that's a lot of money.

[Jason1701]

MPCV slide is funny.

Unknown launch date
Unknown launch vehicle
4 total crew capacity
$5bn Nasa funding so far

And even NASA doesn't know how many more billions it will take to fly crew.

[Namechange User]

And even NASA doesn't know how many more billions it will take to fly crew.

Then be fair to why that is.  It is known to be basic project management, that in order to deliver a product, one must know three basic things:  Technical requirements, a schedule and a budget. 

Disrupt any one of those things and the others suffer. 

[AlexP]

The wireframe model on the Dream Chaser page is actually the HL-10, right?

Nice to see the BBC running it though, it'll get a lot of readers (and hopefully spark some interest over here).

People may be slightly confused at the cost and capability comparisons of CST-100 and MPCV, however 

[simonbp]

The wireframe model on the Dream Chaser page is actually the HL-10, right?

Sorta; it's got a pointier nose than HL-10, but lacks the cockpit windows of HL-20. It could be a proposed aerodynamic test vehicle.

Then be fair to why that is.  It is known to be basic project management, that in order to deliver a product, one must know three basic things:  Technical requirements, a schedule and a budget. 

Disrupt any one of those things and the others suffer. 

But not by factor of 50.

Back when CxP spent most of that money the technical requirements, schedule, and budget were as constant as they are for any other major engineering project. Dragon started at roughly the same time as when LM got the Orion contract. Dragon has actually flown a full orbital mission, while Orion has a structural test article (i.e. as far as CST-100, which only really started last year).

Even considering the different requirements, LM and JSC have been far from cost-effective in the execution of Orion/MPCV. I know LM could have worked faster/cheaper if they had full control over the design. But when you've got a NASA center that thinks it know design something (JSC in this case), the costs go out of control...

[vt_hokie]

All pretty sad looking next to the shuttle, with the possible exception of DreamChaser...

[SpacexULA]

All pretty sad looking next to the shuttle, with the possible exception of DreamChaser...

Personal preference, I always thought the Shuttle looked sad compared to Apollo.  One being a true interplanetary spaceship, the other being a LEO only craft.

Wings on a spacecraft are like wheels on a boat.
 

[go4mars]

And even NASA doesn't know how many more billions it will take to fly crew.

Then be fair to why that is.  It is known to be basic project management, that in order to deliver a product, one must know three basic things:  Technical requirements, a schedule and a budget. 

Disrupt any one of those things and the others suffer. 

There's something to glean from your observation for sure. 

I suspect that the project managers at each of those commercial companies are also aware of that axiom. 

Though I've heard it like this: "Quality, schedule, and budget; Choose 2." 

[go4mars]

Wings on a spacecraft are like wheels on a boat.

I like that. 

[SpacexULA]

Wings on a spacecraft are like wheels on a boat.

I like that. 

Before the Shuttle fans pounce let me explain that one

I don't mean it as a way to attack the shuttle, I saw one of these in real life one time,


Some times you need a boat with wheels, and if you don't have it your up the river without a paddle.

I just can't help but think of the 132 missions of Shuttle, if it had been configured as as a J-130 with a Apollo capsule on top that would have been 6,600 MT worth science in orbit, and 132 capsules to put in every museum in the country.

Of course there is nothing as beautiful/ graceful as watching a Shuttle launch and land.

[Zed_Noir]

Of course there is nothing as beautiful/ graceful as watching a Shuttle launch and land.

Maybe A Falcon Heavy nighttime launch from Vandenberg with a White Dragon follow by powered landing in California by said White Dragon someday in the future.


P.S. White Dragon is my nomenclature for a Dragon doing polar orbits. Instead of the obvious Polar Dragon or Ice Dragon name tag.

[Lampyridae]

All pretty sad looking next to the shuttle, with the possible exception of DreamChaser...

I don't. We've got ourselves a Farscape module!!! Heck, with a few mods it can actually do a lifting body return from lunar orbit. Not that it will ever happen.

[Lampyridae]

All pretty sad looking next to the shuttle, with the possible exception of DreamChaser...

Personal preference, I always thought the Shuttle looked sad compared to Apollo.  One being a true interplanetary spaceship, the other being a LEO only craft.

Wings on a spacecraft are like wheels on a boat.
 

Of COURSE you need wings. They're essential space bling. Joe Six Pack doesn't know what an escape tower on top of a rocket means. Actually, it's even harder to tell now with pusher escape rockets...

[renclod]

Any manned shuttle to LEO (i.e. doing routine launch-loiter-entry missions) should be a spaceplane . With wings, tail rudder, flaps, etc. With landing gear wheels on a strip.
IMO.

[kch]

Wings on a spacecraft are like wheels on a boat.

I like that. 

Before the Shuttle fans pounce let me explain that one

I don't mean it as a way to attack the shuttle, I saw one of these in real life one time,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BARC-LARC-XV-2.jpeg

Some times you need a boat with wheels, and if you don't have it your up the river without a paddle.

Exactly -- "life's a beach, and then you fly ..."