Author Topic: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX  (Read 21310 times)

Offline go4mars

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #20 on: 07/11/2011 11:26 pm »
You probably could make an electric plane that has performance comparable to WWII era prop fighter with existing technology but the range would not be very good.
It would run out of charge in just minutes.

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Offline go4mars

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #21 on: 07/11/2011 11:31 pm »
2.  a new $30,000 Tesla-designed vehicle, and the more affordable jointly designed “third-generation” vehicle;

The operative word is AND.  Looks like Bluestar will be all-Tesla, AND there will be a cheaper JV car as well. 

I assume:
1st Gen = Roadster
2nd Gen = model S, model X
3rd Gen = Bluestar and a cheaper yet JV car.   

Conjecture and assumptions. 

The article states:

"At top production levels, the plant could build upwards of half a million vehicles every year. Only a small percentage of these will be Model S units. The as-yet-nameless third-generation vehicle, a high-volume car, would make up the bulk of the inventory, along with the joint Toyota-Tesla design." 

Seems pretty in-line with what Elon has been talking about for a while and with the article.  Those assumptions are fairly well-grounded imo. 
« Last Edit: 07/11/2011 11:33 pm by go4mars »
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Offline Dave G

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #22 on: 07/11/2011 11:58 pm »
Seems pretty in-line with what Elon has been talking about for a while and with the article.  Those assumptions are fairly well-grounded imo. 

Yes.

As far back as I can remember, Tesla always planned the following roll-out:
Phase 1 - Codename Redstar - $100,000 sports car
Phase 2 - Codename Whitestar - $50,000 luxury sedan
Phase 3 - Codename Bluestar - $30,000 family sedan

Project Redstar became the Roadster.  Project Whitestar became the Model S. 

Project Bluestar was originally supposed to be range extended, like the Chevy Volt, but for some reason Elon did a 180 on that, and now Bluestar is supposed to be pure electric.


Offline tigerade

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #23 on: 07/12/2011 06:43 am »
I'm glad we finally have a Tesla thread.

Is it still looking like the Model S will be released in 2012?  Any idea of the number of cars?

Online docmordrid

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #24 on: 07/12/2011 09:18 am »
Auto industry press says 5,000 units in 2012, ramping up to 20,000 in 2013. Battery packs with 160, 230 and 300 mile ranges. The first 1,000 cars will get the 300 mile pack and special badging.
« Last Edit: 07/12/2011 09:25 am by docmordrid »
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Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #25 on: 07/12/2011 01:21 pm »

You probably could make an electric plane that has performance comparable to WWII era prop fighter with existing technology but the range would not be very good.
It would run out of charge in just minutes.

A bit old, but: http://techcrunch.com/2009/05/05/tesla-founder-elon-musk-dreams-of-electric-airplanes/

Think of it this way, you can design ducted fans that can push you well past the sound barrier... The trick is to slow the incoming air down to subsonic speeds before it encounters the fans, and use the fans to compress it to well above supersonic speeds on the way out. There is nothing special about it, that was one of the tricks employed in the J-58 used in the 60's era SR-71.

The real trick is the energy storage and being able to make an electric motor efficient enough (both in power and weight) to pull this off. That is the blue sky part of what Mr. Musk wants to do. It comes down to super batteries (or super capacitors), super motors, and super conductors.
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Offline Blackjax

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #26 on: 07/12/2011 04:21 pm »
FYI there is actually a lot of work being done on electric aircraft.  A lot of it can be found through links here.

http://cafefoundation.org/v2/main_home.php

Offline Lurker Steve

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #27 on: 07/12/2011 05:35 pm »
Auto industry press says 5,000 units in 2012, ramping up to 20,000 in 2013. Battery packs with 160, 230 and 300 mile ranges. The first 1,000 cars will get the 300 mile pack and special badging.

From their website, it doesn't appear an overnight charge using a standard 110V or 220V will fully charge the battery. They aren't ready for the daily commute yet.

You need to find a special quick-charging station to get the 45-minute "fill-up".

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #28 on: 07/12/2011 06:57 pm »
Who do you suppose has a 300-mile commute?

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #29 on: 07/12/2011 07:10 pm »
Well mine is 45 miles (72 km) each way, add in running the air conditioning, having to run errands, grab lunch, go to client sites, and you can easily sap that battery fast.

Besides, what about people who run delivery services, taxi's, maintenance services, the pool boy, ect. For them time is money and having to sit and wait for a charge is not economical. 300 mile range should hopefully get those users through an average day.

btw. I just passed 190,000 miles on my '05, meaning I spend more time in the car, than on NSF ;)
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Offline majormajor42

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #30 on: 07/12/2011 07:16 pm »
Don't forget his Solar City investment which may pay off big time as well

I posted this a few weeks ago:
Elon is having a good week. Besides this SpaceX news, another facet of his personal business portfolio trifecta, Solar City, just got a $280 million investment from Google.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2011/06/google-invests-280-million-residential-solar-power-fund.php?campaign=top_news
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Offline iamlucky13

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #31 on: 07/12/2011 10:54 pm »
Who do you suppose has a 300-mile commute?

It doesn't matter. It's the negative perception of a limitation you didn't have before. Some people will pay extra for the 300 mile pack on the assumption they need it, even though it's more than they need for daily use, but not actually enough (because of recharge times and limited charging options while away from home) for all trips.

Offline R.Simko

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #32 on: 10/05/2011 01:36 am »
I wasn't sure about where to put this article about an incredably fuel efficient electric plane, but thought many would find it interesting.  If anyone knows a better thread to put it under, please do.

The company that made this plane was awarded a 1.35 million prize award from NASA.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/electric-airplane-wins-big-money-224503447.html

Edit: Added word electric.
« Last Edit: 10/05/2011 02:11 am by R.Simko »

Offline AlexCam

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #33 on: 10/06/2011 05:51 pm »
It is very hard to say.

There are countless examples of space companies that just went bust pretty quickly.

But there are also technology companies that were supposed to be the next hype (e.g. Solyndra) which went bankrupt pretty quickly as well.

Tesla is a high risk company, SpaceX is a very high risk company. They could be worth tens of billions of dollars or nothing. Time will tell.

Offline mr. mark

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #34 on: 10/06/2011 06:05 pm »
"Tesla says it now has 6,000 customers who have reserved its 2012 Model S with deposits of $5,000 or more. If it sells each of the cars it has taken deposits on, that means Tesla will have sold out of the first year’s allocation of Model S sedans a whole nine months before the first one reaches a customer".

http://venturebeat.com/2011/10/02/tesla-faster-2012-model-s/

Next year looks good for Tesla Motors.

Offline iamlucky13

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #35 on: 10/07/2011 12:12 am »
"Tesla says it now has 6,000 customers who have reserved its 2012 Model S with deposits of $5,000 or more. If it sells each of the cars it has taken deposits on, that means Tesla will have sold out of the first year’s allocation of Model S sedans a whole nine months before the first one reaches a customer".

http://venturebeat.com/2011/10/02/tesla-faster-2012-model-s/

Next year looks good for Tesla Motors.

Indeed. Let's hope they can deliver on-time, on-spec, and at their production cost targets.

Offline go4mars

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #36 on: 10/07/2011 02:51 am »
"Tesla says it now has 6,000 customers who have reserved its 2012 Model S with deposits of $5,000 or more. If it sells each of the cars it has taken deposits on, that means Tesla will have sold out of the first year’s allocation of Model S sedans a whole nine months before the first one reaches a customer".

http://venturebeat.com/2011/10/02/tesla-faster-2012-model-s/

Next year looks good for Tesla Motors.

Indeed. Let's hope they can deliver on-time, on-spec, and at their production cost targets.

A clever marketing ploy: use a "red dragon" mission to deliver a modified Tesla car for driving on Mars.  Would need to have an explosive seam in the dragon pressure-hull or something to get it out.  Could either have it single use stunt with a short life, or attach big solar panels and scientific instruments on the front bumper?  Might be a job for the model X (for clearance).  Would need a big boom-camera for the "crane shot".  8)
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Offline krytek

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #37 on: 10/07/2011 09:35 pm »
Put a few Super Dracos where the wheels should be and land it UFO/alien invasion style on GM's rooftop in Detroit.


On a more serious note, check out the Tesla website for the beta models. They aren't final yet, they still need finalize the interior etc and move a few components to in-house manufacturing. But overall it looks great.

Also some say the Model X (crossover built on model s platform) will being unveiling this year even. That's gotta be awesome.

Elon just loves to push it.

Offline Prober

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #38 on: 10/21/2011 10:38 pm »
"Tesla says it now has 6,000 customers who have reserved its 2012 Model S with deposits of $5,000 or more. If it sells each of the cars it has taken deposits on, that means Tesla will have sold out of the first year’s allocation of Model S sedans a whole nine months before the first one reaches a customer".

http://venturebeat.com/2011/10/02/tesla-faster-2012-model-s/

Next year looks good for Tesla Motors.

ABC and other news media are looking at Electric car deals now.  It doesn't look so good.

http://news.yahoo.com/car-company-gets-u-loan-builds-cars-finland-172441546.html
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Offline peter-b

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #39 on: 10/21/2011 11:02 pm »
ABC and other news media are looking at Electric car deals now.  It doesn't look so good.

http://news.yahoo.com/car-company-gets-u-loan-builds-cars-finland-172441546.html

I read that article, and came a way with the strong feeling that it's a hatchet job...  :-\

In particular,  Tesla had little to do with the headline, yet about half the article is devoted to attacking Tesla on what appear to be fairly specious grounds.
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