Author Topic: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX  (Read 21312 times)

Offline Riley1066

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Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« on: 07/10/2011 04:02 am »
Just had a thought/question come to my mind ... assuming that both companies continue to operate as planned, which company will earn Elon Musk more money, Tesla Motors or SpaceX?
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Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #1 on: 07/11/2011 01:02 am »
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Offline Jason1701

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #2 on: 07/11/2011 01:52 am »
What are you talking about, Kevin? Musk's shares of Paypal were bought by eBay in October 2002.

My guess would be Tesla.

Offline SpacexULA

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #3 on: 07/11/2011 02:00 am »
I think it would be two hard to say, depends on what SpaceX turns into.

Telsa is already becoming a OEM manufacturer/Vehicle Manufacturer.  It would not surprise me if Telsa made as much off their sells of technology to Toyota/Daimler as they do off selling Roadsters.

If SpaceX continues to just sell rockets and rides on the Dragon I think that Tesla will be his larger personal check.  But if SpaceX starts offering to sell engines, avionics, tanks, etc I think SpaceX could become a baby Boeing over the next decade.

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Offline go4mars

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #4 on: 07/11/2011 02:51 am »
My prediction:  5 years from now, Elon's share of Tesla profits will be helping to finance SpaceX.  SpaceX income will be reinvested into technologies and capabilities that work toward the goal of making life multiplanetary (still largely even after IPO).   

Tesla Model S already has roughly 7000 deposits.  Model S cars should be coming off the line for sale next summer.  Then the model X by about 2014.  These will all sell well.  I suspect that their competition MAY beat them to the Bluestar (about 2016), but model S and model X sales should keep a lot of cash flowing into Elon's pockets via Tesla dividends. 

Maybe I'm wrong and he'll instead invest it into all-electric supersonic jet manufacturing, or pre-fab modular highway overpass-building, or fusion research.  But I suspect SpaceX will stay well-heeled on the back of a lucrative Tesla no matter what the launch market is doing, and no matter what obstacles/setbacks SpaceX runs into.     
« Last Edit: 07/11/2011 03:01 am by go4mars »
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Offline neilh

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #5 on: 07/11/2011 07:34 am »
Maybe I'm wrong and he'll instead invest it into all-electric supersonic jet manufacturing...

Heh, isn't that what Musk said to Tony Stark in Iron Man 2?
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Offline Dave G

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #6 on: 07/11/2011 11:42 am »
I don't think Tesla will ever make money.  They will continue to lead the charge for automobile electrification over the next few years, but in the end, people will still want cars that can use gasoline as a backup.  Musk has said he won't build a range extended car like the Chevy Volt.  That will be Tesla's downfall.  In the end, Toyota will buy Tesla and use their technology to make a range extended electric car.

I think SpaceX will continue to be profitable.  I believe there's plenty of pent up demand for low cost launchers.  And from a production point of view, the economics of building rockets is easier than cars.

Online hyper_snyper

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #7 on: 07/11/2011 11:45 am »
...
Maybe I'm wrong and he'll instead invest it into all-electric supersonic jet manufacturing
...

This if off topic but I've heard this before and I don't understand what the hell an electric jet is.  How the hell to you get jet propulsion using only electricity?

Offline Dave G

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #8 on: 07/11/2011 01:47 pm »
This if off topic but I've heard this before and I don't understand what the hell an electric jet is.  How the hell to you get jet propulsion using only electricity?

This whole thread is off topic, but what the hell.

To be clear, Musk never said anything about an electric jet engine. 

He has talked about a supersonic electric plane, but he's always clear that this isn't something he's actively pursuing.  He says the electric engine technology is already here, but it may be quite a while before batteries can store enough energy give an electric plane any reasonable range.

He's also mentioned that he's interested in controlled fusion, but again, these are just things that interest him, not things he works on.
« Last Edit: 07/11/2011 01:56 pm by Dave G »

Offline Lurker Steve

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #9 on: 07/11/2011 02:25 pm »
What are you talking about, Kevin? Musk's shares of Paypal were bought by eBay in October 2002.

My guess would be Tesla.

Elon Musk will make his Billions off Tesla the same way he made his fortune off PayPal, by selling the company to another manufacturer.

Didn't Tesla recently announce that they are cancelling production of the only model that's actually in production so they could focus on the next model ? Do they need the resources of a larger corporation ?

Since the next model is being built in a jointly operated Toyota factory anyway, I assume he's just waiting for the right offer.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #10 on: 07/11/2011 02:47 pm »
Rather, Tesla owns the factory and manufacturing tools.  This is not a Tesla/Toyota JV.  On the other hand, Tesla has expressed some interest in manufacturing Toyota's electric RAV4 at the Tesla plant.

Offline Dave G

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #11 on: 07/11/2011 03:07 pm »
Didn't Tesla recently announce that they are cancelling production of the only model that's actually in production so they could focus on the next model ?
No. Tesla said they will stop taking orders for Roadster toward the end of August, and then continue to build the Roadster until those orders are all filled.

Do they need the resources of a larger corporation ?
Yes.  They do have investments from Daimler and Toyota, and both companies are customers for Tesla technology, but I'm doubtful this will be enough over the long term.

Offline go4mars

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #12 on: 07/11/2011 03:31 pm »
Elon Musk will make his Billions off Tesla the same way he made his fortune off PayPal, by selling the company to another manufacturer.

Perhaps, but not until after Bluestar is into production (my guess).

Didn't Tesla recently announce that they are cancelling production of the only model that's actually in production so they could focus on the next model ?

Roadster 2 has been announced.

Do they need the resources of a larger corporation ?
No.  They do have some minor shareholders like Panasonic and Toyota, but that's not exactly a lot in the grand scheme of Tesla's market cap and financials.

Since the next model is being built in a jointly operated Toyota factory anyway
  Incorrect.  They BOUGHT most of the NUMMI facility in Freemont for $42 million.  It is the Tesla factory.  And I believe I read that the Tesla-powered Toyota vehicles are not made there.  Only the powertrains, which are then sold to Toyota. 
« Last Edit: 07/11/2011 04:23 pm by go4mars »
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Offline Eric Hedman

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #13 on: 07/11/2011 03:46 pm »
Since the next model is being built in a jointly operated Toyota factory anyway
  Incorrect.  They BOUGHT most of the NUMMI facility in Freemont for $42 billion.  It is the Tesla factory.  And I believe I read that the Tesla-powered Toyota vehicles are not made there.  Only the powertrains, which are then sold to Toyota. 
$42 billion?  really?  That must be one hell of a facility.
« Last Edit: 07/11/2011 03:47 pm by Eric Hedman »

Offline go4mars

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #14 on: 07/11/2011 04:23 pm »
Since the next model is being built in a jointly operated Toyota factory anyway
  Incorrect.  They BOUGHT most of the NUMMI facility in Freemont for $42 billion.  It is the Tesla factory.  And I believe I read that the Tesla-powered Toyota vehicles are not made there.  Only the powertrains, which are then sold to Toyota. 
$42 billion?  really?  That must be one hell of a facility.

Sorry, I meant million.  Fast typing or something I guess.  I've fixed the original now.

But it is worth noting that it was a $3.5 billion dollar plant that they got on the cheap during the height of the economic crisis (part 1) for only $42 M.  Buying Gigabucks with Megabucks.

  http://www.edab.org/business_resources_incentives/pdf/NUMMI%20Plant%20Closure%20Impact%20and%20Res.pdf

« Last Edit: 07/11/2011 04:54 pm by go4mars »
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Offline Lurker Steve

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #15 on: 07/11/2011 04:49 pm »
From this article :
http://venturebeat.com/2010/05/20/tesla-and-toyota-teaming-up-to-build-electric-cars-schwarzenegger-lets-slip/

The company’s deal with Toyota has three facets:

1. The joint development  of a brand new,sub- $30,000 electric car, that will contain Tesla’s unique powertrain design, with everything else built by Toyota;
2. The purchase of the NUMMI plant, where Tesla plans to manufacture both its Model S sedan due out in 2012, a new $30,000 Tesla-designed vehicle, and the more affordable jointly designed “third-generation” vehicle;
3. A $50 million investment from Toyota into Tesla when the company goes public, probably later this year.

There’s several pieces of huge news here. Let’s dissect each one of these points:

1. The new car: Tesla clearly realized that the Roadster and Model S weren’t going to cut it — not in a market where the Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf are going to dominate at a lower price. Tesla would need its own sub-$30,000 car (which would sell for considerably less after likely rebates), in order to survive. But it couldn’t get its costs down on its own, so partnering with a major automaker seemed to be the best course of action. Toyota, which has had a decade’s headstart as the green car leader since the release of its hybrid Prius, was probably also shopping around for a bold, new play in the space to retain its throne.

The design of the car, which probably won’t be released today, will draw largely from an existing Toyota design, Musk says.

Also, it appears I just found a tax-credit that both Republicans and Democrats should be willing to eliminate, in the interest of deficit reduction. Why do people buying $50K - 100K cars need a $7500 tax credit ? Hey democrats, no more tax breaks for the rich. Hey republicans, those lefty green-wackos are busting the budget again.



Offline go4mars

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #16 on: 07/11/2011 04:53 pm »
2.  a new $30,000 Tesla-designed vehicle, and the more affordable jointly designed “third-generation” vehicle;

The operative word is AND.  Looks like Bluestar will be all-Tesla, AND there will be a cheaper JV car as well. 

I assume:
1st Gen = Roadster
2nd Gen = model S, model X
3rd Gen = Bluestar and a cheaper yet JV car.   
« Last Edit: 07/11/2011 04:57 pm by go4mars »
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Offline Jim

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #17 on: 07/11/2011 06:25 pm »
2.  a new $30,000 Tesla-designed vehicle, and the more affordable jointly designed “third-generation” vehicle;

The operative word is AND.  Looks like Bluestar will be all-Tesla, AND there will be a cheaper JV car as well. 

I assume:
1st Gen = Roadster
2nd Gen = model S, model X
3rd Gen = Bluestar and a cheaper yet JV car.   

Conjecture and assumptions. 

Offline Jim

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #18 on: 07/11/2011 06:37 pm »
Conjecture and assumptions. 

Mainly yes.  Which is why I labelled it as such. 

and so overtly optimistic that they are not valid

Offline Patchouli

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #19 on: 07/11/2011 11:06 pm »
This if off topic but I've heard this before and I don't understand what the hell an electric jet is.  How the hell to you get jet propulsion using only electricity?

This whole thread is off topic, but what the hell.

To be clear, Musk never said anything about an electric jet engine. 

He has talked about a supersonic electric plane, but he's always clear that this isn't something he's actively pursuing.  He says the electric engine technology is already here, but it may be quite a while before batteries can store enough energy give an electric plane any reasonable range.

He's also mentioned that he's interested in controlled fusion, but again, these are just things that interest him, not things he works on.

You probably could make an electric plane that has performance comparable to WWII era prop fighter with existing technology but the range would not be very good.
It would run out of charge in just minutes.
« Last Edit: 07/11/2011 11:08 pm by Patchouli »

Offline go4mars

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #20 on: 07/11/2011 11:26 pm »
You probably could make an electric plane that has performance comparable to WWII era prop fighter with existing technology but the range would not be very good.
It would run out of charge in just minutes.

Broadcast Power? 
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Offline go4mars

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #21 on: 07/11/2011 11:31 pm »
2.  a new $30,000 Tesla-designed vehicle, and the more affordable jointly designed “third-generation” vehicle;

The operative word is AND.  Looks like Bluestar will be all-Tesla, AND there will be a cheaper JV car as well. 

I assume:
1st Gen = Roadster
2nd Gen = model S, model X
3rd Gen = Bluestar and a cheaper yet JV car.   

Conjecture and assumptions. 

The article states:

"At top production levels, the plant could build upwards of half a million vehicles every year. Only a small percentage of these will be Model S units. The as-yet-nameless third-generation vehicle, a high-volume car, would make up the bulk of the inventory, along with the joint Toyota-Tesla design." 

Seems pretty in-line with what Elon has been talking about for a while and with the article.  Those assumptions are fairly well-grounded imo. 
« Last Edit: 07/11/2011 11:33 pm by go4mars »
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Offline Dave G

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #22 on: 07/11/2011 11:58 pm »
Seems pretty in-line with what Elon has been talking about for a while and with the article.  Those assumptions are fairly well-grounded imo. 

Yes.

As far back as I can remember, Tesla always planned the following roll-out:
Phase 1 - Codename Redstar - $100,000 sports car
Phase 2 - Codename Whitestar - $50,000 luxury sedan
Phase 3 - Codename Bluestar - $30,000 family sedan

Project Redstar became the Roadster.  Project Whitestar became the Model S. 

Project Bluestar was originally supposed to be range extended, like the Chevy Volt, but for some reason Elon did a 180 on that, and now Bluestar is supposed to be pure electric.


Offline tigerade

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #23 on: 07/12/2011 06:43 am »
I'm glad we finally have a Tesla thread.

Is it still looking like the Model S will be released in 2012?  Any idea of the number of cars?

Offline docmordrid

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #24 on: 07/12/2011 09:18 am »
Auto industry press says 5,000 units in 2012, ramping up to 20,000 in 2013. Battery packs with 160, 230 and 300 mile ranges. The first 1,000 cars will get the 300 mile pack and special badging.
« Last Edit: 07/12/2011 09:25 am by docmordrid »
DM

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #25 on: 07/12/2011 01:21 pm »

You probably could make an electric plane that has performance comparable to WWII era prop fighter with existing technology but the range would not be very good.
It would run out of charge in just minutes.

A bit old, but: http://techcrunch.com/2009/05/05/tesla-founder-elon-musk-dreams-of-electric-airplanes/

Think of it this way, you can design ducted fans that can push you well past the sound barrier... The trick is to slow the incoming air down to subsonic speeds before it encounters the fans, and use the fans to compress it to well above supersonic speeds on the way out. There is nothing special about it, that was one of the tricks employed in the J-58 used in the 60's era SR-71.

The real trick is the energy storage and being able to make an electric motor efficient enough (both in power and weight) to pull this off. That is the blue sky part of what Mr. Musk wants to do. It comes down to super batteries (or super capacitors), super motors, and super conductors.
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Offline Blackjax

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #26 on: 07/12/2011 04:21 pm »
FYI there is actually a lot of work being done on electric aircraft.  A lot of it can be found through links here.

http://cafefoundation.org/v2/main_home.php

Offline Lurker Steve

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #27 on: 07/12/2011 05:35 pm »
Auto industry press says 5,000 units in 2012, ramping up to 20,000 in 2013. Battery packs with 160, 230 and 300 mile ranges. The first 1,000 cars will get the 300 mile pack and special badging.

From their website, it doesn't appear an overnight charge using a standard 110V or 220V will fully charge the battery. They aren't ready for the daily commute yet.

You need to find a special quick-charging station to get the 45-minute "fill-up".

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #28 on: 07/12/2011 06:57 pm »
Who do you suppose has a 300-mile commute?

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #29 on: 07/12/2011 07:10 pm »
Well mine is 45 miles (72 km) each way, add in running the air conditioning, having to run errands, grab lunch, go to client sites, and you can easily sap that battery fast.

Besides, what about people who run delivery services, taxi's, maintenance services, the pool boy, ect. For them time is money and having to sit and wait for a charge is not economical. 300 mile range should hopefully get those users through an average day.

btw. I just passed 190,000 miles on my '05, meaning I spend more time in the car, than on NSF ;)
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Offline majormajor42

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #30 on: 07/12/2011 07:16 pm »
Don't forget his Solar City investment which may pay off big time as well

I posted this a few weeks ago:
Elon is having a good week. Besides this SpaceX news, another facet of his personal business portfolio trifecta, Solar City, just got a $280 million investment from Google.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2011/06/google-invests-280-million-residential-solar-power-fund.php?campaign=top_news
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Offline iamlucky13

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #31 on: 07/12/2011 10:54 pm »
Who do you suppose has a 300-mile commute?

It doesn't matter. It's the negative perception of a limitation you didn't have before. Some people will pay extra for the 300 mile pack on the assumption they need it, even though it's more than they need for daily use, but not actually enough (because of recharge times and limited charging options while away from home) for all trips.

Offline R.Simko

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #32 on: 10/05/2011 01:36 am »
I wasn't sure about where to put this article about an incredably fuel efficient electric plane, but thought many would find it interesting.  If anyone knows a better thread to put it under, please do.

The company that made this plane was awarded a 1.35 million prize award from NASA.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/electric-airplane-wins-big-money-224503447.html

Edit: Added word electric.
« Last Edit: 10/05/2011 02:11 am by R.Simko »

Offline AlexCam

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #33 on: 10/06/2011 05:51 pm »
It is very hard to say.

There are countless examples of space companies that just went bust pretty quickly.

But there are also technology companies that were supposed to be the next hype (e.g. Solyndra) which went bankrupt pretty quickly as well.

Tesla is a high risk company, SpaceX is a very high risk company. They could be worth tens of billions of dollars or nothing. Time will tell.

Offline mr. mark

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #34 on: 10/06/2011 06:05 pm »
"Tesla says it now has 6,000 customers who have reserved its 2012 Model S with deposits of $5,000 or more. If it sells each of the cars it has taken deposits on, that means Tesla will have sold out of the first year’s allocation of Model S sedans a whole nine months before the first one reaches a customer".

http://venturebeat.com/2011/10/02/tesla-faster-2012-model-s/

Next year looks good for Tesla Motors.

Offline iamlucky13

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #35 on: 10/07/2011 12:12 am »
"Tesla says it now has 6,000 customers who have reserved its 2012 Model S with deposits of $5,000 or more. If it sells each of the cars it has taken deposits on, that means Tesla will have sold out of the first year’s allocation of Model S sedans a whole nine months before the first one reaches a customer".

http://venturebeat.com/2011/10/02/tesla-faster-2012-model-s/

Next year looks good for Tesla Motors.

Indeed. Let's hope they can deliver on-time, on-spec, and at their production cost targets.

Offline go4mars

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #36 on: 10/07/2011 02:51 am »
"Tesla says it now has 6,000 customers who have reserved its 2012 Model S with deposits of $5,000 or more. If it sells each of the cars it has taken deposits on, that means Tesla will have sold out of the first year’s allocation of Model S sedans a whole nine months before the first one reaches a customer".

http://venturebeat.com/2011/10/02/tesla-faster-2012-model-s/

Next year looks good for Tesla Motors.

Indeed. Let's hope they can deliver on-time, on-spec, and at their production cost targets.

A clever marketing ploy: use a "red dragon" mission to deliver a modified Tesla car for driving on Mars.  Would need to have an explosive seam in the dragon pressure-hull or something to get it out.  Could either have it single use stunt with a short life, or attach big solar panels and scientific instruments on the front bumper?  Might be a job for the model X (for clearance).  Would need a big boom-camera for the "crane shot".  8)
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Offline krytek

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #37 on: 10/07/2011 09:35 pm »
Put a few Super Dracos where the wheels should be and land it UFO/alien invasion style on GM's rooftop in Detroit.


On a more serious note, check out the Tesla website for the beta models. They aren't final yet, they still need finalize the interior etc and move a few components to in-house manufacturing. But overall it looks great.

Also some say the Model X (crossover built on model s platform) will being unveiling this year even. That's gotta be awesome.

Elon just loves to push it.

Offline Prober

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #38 on: 10/21/2011 10:38 pm »
"Tesla says it now has 6,000 customers who have reserved its 2012 Model S with deposits of $5,000 or more. If it sells each of the cars it has taken deposits on, that means Tesla will have sold out of the first year’s allocation of Model S sedans a whole nine months before the first one reaches a customer".

http://venturebeat.com/2011/10/02/tesla-faster-2012-model-s/

Next year looks good for Tesla Motors.

ABC and other news media are looking at Electric car deals now.  It doesn't look so good.

http://news.yahoo.com/car-company-gets-u-loan-builds-cars-finland-172441546.html
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Offline peter-b

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #39 on: 10/21/2011 11:02 pm »
ABC and other news media are looking at Electric car deals now.  It doesn't look so good.

http://news.yahoo.com/car-company-gets-u-loan-builds-cars-finland-172441546.html

I read that article, and came a way with the strong feeling that it's a hatchet job...  :-\

In particular,  Tesla had little to do with the headline, yet about half the article is devoted to attacking Tesla on what appear to be fairly specious grounds.
Research Scientist (Sensors), Sharp Laboratories of Europe, UK

Offline Prober

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #40 on: 10/21/2011 11:11 pm »
ABC and other news media are looking at Electric car deals now.  It doesn't look so good.

http://news.yahoo.com/car-company-gets-u-loan-builds-cars-finland-172441546.html

I read that article, and came a way with the strong feeling that it's a hatchet job...  :-\

In particular,  Tesla had little to do with the headline, yet about half the article is devoted to attacking Tesla on what appear to be fairly specious grounds.

"Yet an audit this year by the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress, criticized the Energy Department for not keeping close enough tabs on its fleet of auto loans -- including those to Fisker and Tesla -- to ensure they meet benchmarks."

this is not good...
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ by Thomas Alva Edison

Offline go4mars

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #41 on: 10/22/2011 01:55 am »
It's incorrect with alterior motives.  Imo.  Bank analyst ratings are very bullish on Tesla.
« Last Edit: 10/22/2011 01:56 am by go4mars »
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Offline Lurker Steve

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #42 on: 10/22/2011 02:07 am »
ABC and other news media are looking at Electric car deals now.  It doesn't look so good.

http://news.yahoo.com/car-company-gets-u-loan-builds-cars-finland-172441546.html

I read that article, and came a way with the strong feeling that it's a hatchet job...  :-\

In particular,  Tesla had little to do with the headline, yet about half the article is devoted to attacking Tesla on what appear to be fairly specious grounds.

"Yet an audit this year by the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress, criticized the Energy Department for not keeping close enough tabs on its fleet of auto loans -- including those to Fisker and Tesla -- to ensure they meet benchmarks."

this is not good...

This is part of the crony capitalism coming from the Obama/Biden administration that mismanaged the stimulus funding, and gave rise to the Tea Party and now the various Occupy groups.

They loaned and gave grants for billions of dollars to companies that didn't  generate those promised "green" jobs. Tesla wasn't the bad guy, but they haven't made money yet either. Add them on top of Fisker, Solyndra, and another failed company that made batteries, and this is yet another reason why the Obama administration should be blocked from any more attempts at "stimulus" spending.  Chicago politicans never change .

Offline krytek

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #43 on: 10/22/2011 03:36 am »
On top of that your president spent 2 trillion dollars of your money in bailouts and your still in a depression. And he keeps finding new ways to throw trillions of your money out the window to this day.
Really I wouldn't care, but you gonna ruin things globally.

Anyway FWIW, Tesla got a loan from a Bush era program. Elon was asked about this during an interview some time ago, he said he almost regretted taking it.

Quote
Yet an audit this year by the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress, criticized the Energy Department for not keeping close enough tabs on its fleet of auto loans -- including those to Fisker and Tesla -- to ensure they meet benchmarks

Why don't they audit your federal reserve, instead of going for the small money.

Offline Lurker Steve

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #44 on: 10/22/2011 04:22 am »
On top of that your president spent 2 trillion dollars of your money in bailouts and your still in a depression. And he keeps finding new ways to throw trillions of your money out the window to this day.
Really I wouldn't care, but you gonna ruin things globally.

Anyway FWIW, Tesla got a loan from a Bush era program. Elon was asked about this during an interview some time ago, he said he almost regretted taking it.

Quote
Yet an audit this year by the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress, criticized the Energy Department for not keeping close enough tabs on its fleet of auto loans -- including those to Fisker and Tesla -- to ensure they meet benchmarks

Why don't they audit your federal reserve, instead of going for the small money.

That's Ron Paul's idea, but he doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected. Meanwhile, start preparing for QE3, and more de-valued dollars on the market.

Online Robotbeat

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #45 on: 10/22/2011 04:34 am »
ABC and other news media are looking at Electric car deals now.  It doesn't look so good.

http://news.yahoo.com/car-company-gets-u-loan-builds-cars-finland-172441546.html

I read that article, and came a way with the strong feeling that it's a hatchet job...  :-\

In particular,  Tesla had little to do with the headline, yet about half the article is devoted to attacking Tesla on what appear to be fairly specious grounds.

"Yet an audit this year by the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress, criticized the Energy Department for not keeping close enough tabs on its fleet of auto loans -- including those to Fisker and Tesla -- to ensure they meet benchmarks."

this is not good...

This is part of the crony capitalism coming from the Obama/Biden administration that mismanaged the stimulus funding, and gave rise to the Tea Party and now the various Occupy groups.

They loaned and gave grants for billions of dollars to companies that didn't  generate those promised "green" jobs. Tesla wasn't the bad guy, but they haven't made money yet either. Add them on top of Fisker, Solyndra, and another failed company that made batteries, and this is yet another reason why the Obama administration should be blocked from any more attempts at "stimulus" spending.  Chicago politicans never change .
The stimulus was never even close to big enough, not even close. If America's leaders are blocked from both stimulus spending AND any monetary policy, forget about getting out of the recession anytime soon. Austerity isn't going to help the economy, and it certainly won't help NASA's chances at getting the funding needed for an exploration program using SLS, etc.

What got us out of the Great Depression? Massive government stimulus (i.e. WWII).
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline docmordrid

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #46 on: 10/22/2011 05:16 am »
A 2004 study argued that the Great Depression would have ended in 1936 had the market been left to correct itself, but because of New Deal policies diverting resources that otherwise would have been available for expansion the Great Depression lasted until 1943.
DM

Offline PhillyJimi

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Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #47 on: 10/22/2011 05:42 am »
Tesla - It's success depends on the price of oil over the next 5 years.  If gas prices stay somewhat low then market demand will remain low, I think they are going to eventually be purchased by someone like Toyota.  If gas prices spike, Tesla has an opportunity to become a giant company and to gain a very large market share.  The other car companies aren't going to be nimble enough to react.  I think a fun soccer mom style SUV should be on the table for Tesla. 

SpaceX - It would appear that Elon has put his Wharton business degree to good use.  He doesn't seem to let his ego control his wallet.  For the next few years, the main risk is a launch failure or two will be enough to sink him. 

I think for the next 10 years SpaceX is positioned to be very successful.  With the last launch they cleared major hurdles.  If Dragon failed or if they didn't have the COTS contract they would be in big trouble.

SpaceX Long term beyond 2025?  Who knows if Mars is just a crazy dream or not?  I hope it isn't.

Offline Chris Bergin

Re: Tesla Motors vs SpaceX
« Reply #48 on: 10/22/2011 07:28 am »
PhillyJimi ended this thread nicely with a post that had some relevance. Most of the others didn't.

I might as well start allowing threads about how you should all call soccer "Football" at this rate ;D

Locking due to it mainly being about non-spacey stuff.

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