Expanding Commercial Spaceflight Operations

[mr. mark]

KSC,NASA partnering with SNC, Spacex also taking over Delta 2 facility.

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2011/jul/HQ_11-221_Sierra_Space_Act.html

(Source: SPACErePORT)

Last month, Space Florida's board of directors approved several infrastructure investments at the Cape Canaveral Spaceport. One of those investments was apparently intended to meet SpaceX's need for expansion at the spaceport. With limited room at a Launch Complex 40 building for horizontal processing of Falcon-9 rockets, and scant extra room in the same facility for work on Dragon capsules, SpaceX was looking at excess facilities within the CCAFS Industrial Area nearby. With support from Space Florida and the Air Force 45th Space Wing, SpaceX is now modifying the Delta Mission Checkout (DMCO) facility--which formerly supported Delta-2 rocket processing--for Falcon-9 operations. (7/1)

[Jim]

You are mixing two separate items.  Delta Mission Checkout (DMCO) facility is not  on KSC nor is KSC involved.

I suggest a title change is in order.

[majormajor42]

So what will become available on the KSC side that may be useful to the CCDev companies as the STS comes to an end? SLS we anticipate, will still need many of these KSC buildings, such as VAB. I wonder what will happen to the OPF? I assume SSPF will remain a NASA facility for processing their payloads that might fly on commercial craft or SLS.

Two questions that may be part of the discussion:
Will NASA/CCDev require SpaceX to launch manned flights out of KSC, the 39 pads, only and therefor SpaceX will need facilities at KSC?

How are the books balanced when it comes to this stuff? For example, is SpaceX taking over all costs associated with DMCO? If not, then how do we determine how much it really costs to launch a Falcon if the USAF (?) is paying for this building? Is this an important part of the equation or not? I think it is great that SpaceX got that big fuel tank for a $1 over scrap. That's good recycling and good business as far as I am concerned but NASA giving away lots of real estate seems to be another matter IMHO.

[Jim]

For example, is SpaceX taking over all costs associated with DMCO?

yes, that is why ULA gave it up.

Any company will have to pay for use of govt facilities.

[Jim]

Will NASA/CCDev require SpaceX to launch manned flights out of KSC

No

[majormajor42]

Thanks Jim for those answers.

So NASA might pay a commercial operator as part of CCDev or COTS/CRS and then the commercial company might pay some of that back to NASA/USAF in order to use those gov't facilities. And that goes for everything, from buildings, to special support vehicles, to launchpads?

Jim, do you feel that the taxpayer is getting a decent deal? Is the policy consistent for ULV and these newer companies or do you see some favoritism going on (as far as this spaceport infrastructure topic is concerned)?

[kraisee]

For example, is SpaceX taking over all costs associated with DMCO?

yes, that is why ULA gave it up.

Any company will have to pay for use of govt facilities.

Actually Jim, that's not quite the whole story.

Part of the 21st Century KSC plan has been to allow the government subsidization of many facilities at KSC so that any commercial company to come in and utilize them without having to take on all those overheads themselves.

So far, nobody has actually bitten this bait, which is why we aren't hearing much about it.   But there has been some talk of Falcon Heavy being operated out of LC-39, and if it happened NASA/KSC currently intend to continue to own the facility, and maintain it as part of the KSC budget, with the commercial customer providing only the specific hardware they need for their particular system.


Now, I won't argue that the total cost for the whole system would still be high, but the portion that the commercial operator has to be concerned with would only be a portion of that and would remain under their control.


The main reason preventing ULA and Space-X from doing this, is the administrative/bureaucratic overheads involved in working so closely with NASA.   I haven't seen any attempt yet, on the part of KSC, to consider reducing their requirements in this regard though.   And I personally think that it will never happen unless they choose to make this a truly streamlined process.

Ross.

[oldAtlas_Eguy]

Actually SpaceX has rented twice a NASA's SRB recovery tug for each of the F9 flights. The question becomes will SpaceX keep doing this and also will the tugs still be available after STS-135?

[Jim]

Actually Jim, that's not quite the whole story.

Part of the 21st Century KSC plan has been to allow the government subsidization of many facilities at KSC so that any commercial company to come in and utilize them without having to take on all those overheads themselves.

So far, nobody has actually bitten this bait, which is why we aren't hearing much about it.   But there has been some talk of Falcon Heavy being operated out of LC-39, and if it happened NASA/KSC currently intend to continue to own the facility, and maintain it as part of the KSC budget, with the commercial customer providing only the specific hardware they need for their particular system.

The companies are not going to get a free ride, there will be some reimbursement to the govt, even for the 21st Century KSC plan

[majormajor42]

Any speculation on what KSC structures will be used by companies after STS?

I'll take a (novice) guess that one of the OPFs will be useful for Sierra Nevada considering that they might roll in off the runway like a small shuttle. Perhaps NASA already has something planned for the OPF? Something related to SLS?

[erioladastra]

Any speculation on what KSC structures will be used by companies after STS?

I'll take a (novice) guess that one of the OPFs will be useful for Sierra Nevada considering that they might roll in off the runway like a small shuttle. Perhaps NASA already has something planned for the OPF? Something related to SLS?

One of the OPFs have already been flagged.  Announcement was to be this week but then delayed due to the shuttle launch.

[Prober]

Actually SpaceX has rented twice a NASA's SRB recovery tug for each of the F9 flights. The question becomes will SpaceX keep doing this and also will the tugs still be available after STS-135?

With all the games being played......would not be surprised that the tugs and alot of HW from the Space Shuttle program goes up for sale.

I saw Hubble parts months ago, so nothing surprises me.

[kraisee]

Actually SpaceX has rented twice a NASA's SRB recovery tug for each of the F9 flights. The question becomes will SpaceX keep doing this and also will the tugs still be available after STS-135?

The last I heard (about 6 months ago) was that Freedom Star, Liberty Star and the Pegasus barge would all continue to be fully maintained by NASA for the foreseeable future.

The expectation being that within a finite number of years, NASA or one of the commercial companies will need hardware transported by sea and/or launch vehicle hardware will need to be recovered from the ocean.

Ross.

[baldusi]

Actually SpaceX has rented twice a NASA's SRB recovery tug for each of the F9 flights. The question becomes will SpaceX keep doing this and also will the tugs still be available after STS-135?

The last I heard (about 6 months ago) was that Freedom Star, Liberty Star and the Pegasus barge would all continue to be fully maintained by NASA for the foreseeable future.

The expectation being that within a finite number of years, NASA or one of the commercial companies will need hardware transported by sea and/or launch vehicle hardware will need to be recovered from the ocean.

Ross.

Didn't SpaceX use them for their Falcon 9's first stage (even though they havent been able to retrieve one, yet)?

[Jason1701]

Yes, one SRB ship for each launch. They'll probably continue doing so.