Blue Origin technical discussion

[Danderman]

How about a separate thread for Blue Origin on technical issues, and leave this one for updates?

I like that idea. However, given how Blue Origin has chosen to play their cards close to their chest, I doubt if the technical thread will see much traffic.

Aside from "biconic capsule launched on Atlas V, and later on a reusable two-stage hydrolox booster", is there anything we actually now about Blue Origin's tech?

This thread is for discussion of the technologies used by Blue Origin, and related issues, such as Blue Origin launchers, landing strategies, etc.

[NotGncDude]

Somebody pointed out the possible influence of DC-X on Blue Origin's and that remind ed me of a couple of things. Blue Origin got started with a mix of former DC-X, Kistler and Beal Aerospace engineers and managers, so you can see their influence in their current design (whatever is publicly known, that is).

DC-X demonstrated the feasibility of vertical powered landing vs parachutes (which was Kistler's approach), and that's reportedly their approach at least for their suborbital vehicle. At the same time if you look at what's known of this vehicle, it comes bottom first like Kistler's first stage, which gets around one of the tricky bits of DC-X, the "death swoop" maneuver.

However, the K1 had all sorts of control authority problems (headaches would be a nice way to put it) during the atmospheric phase simply because they were trying to fly a rocket backwards at Mach 3 (the first stage, the 2nd stage was coming from orbit!1!!) without aero control surfaces, not even for trim, having only a few puny RCS jets which were powerless to offset even the tiniest aero torques. Again, looking at the patents and pics of their vehicle you can see that the suborbital rocket is sort of like the K1 first stage but it has aero surfaces to control, even guide, the bottom first entry. Not too different from Masten's longtime approach, so we'll see if Bezos tries to enforce their patents.

Beal Aerospace was all about H2O2 propulsion, and that's what Blue Origin started with, so you can see their influence there. They have talked publicly of moving to hydrogen so they may be phasing out the peroxide.

In general I'd say they are building up on top of the K1 and the DC-X trying to correct for the first generation mistakes, so I think they're in solid terrain. I just wish it didn't take them forever! For a 150-250 people outfit they sure take their time.

[mmeijeri]

Beal Aerospace was all about H2O2 propulsion, and that's what Blue Origin started with, so you can see their influence there. They have talked publicly of moving to hydrogen so they may be phasing out the peroxide.

Just for the second stage you think, or for the first stage as well?

[NotGncDude]

I don't know. Judging from the chart (man, I hate this Kremlinology) they have 3 "stages" now though: one suborbital and the two stages for the orbital. I guess 4, counting the CCDev manned capsule lifting body. The suborbital is likely the H2O2 one, given it's a revision on Goddard. It's hard to guess about the orbital stuff but maybe that's where the LH2 comes in? Maybe for the upper stage?

[mmeijeri]

LH2 and H2O2 aren't even mutually exclusive on a single stage, since one is an oxidiser and the other a fuel. The combination would have reasonable density and Isp. Not that I have any reason for believing they have any interest in this combination, just pointing out how little we know about what they are planning to do.

[NotGncDude]

I think once you've opened the cryogen can of worms you may as well go straight to LOX. But you're right, they're not necessarily exclusive.