European and Japanese involvement in ISS

• European and Japanese involvement in ISS by Ben E on 05 Aug, 2005 06:58
• I'm aware that whenever Atlantis lifts off on STS-121, it will carry Thomas Reiter as the first European 'expedition' crew member for the ISS. Will this be a regular thing as the launch of Columbus draws nearer: a three-person crew consisting of a Russian, an American and a European? Or will the European expeditions be more sporadic (say, one a year?), alternating with a two-Russian-one-American or one-Russian-two-American crews?
  
  I do recall reading that the reason for the current one-Russian-and-one-American system of crews is because they needed one person from the country representing each 'segment' to be aboard at all times. Hence the lack of European, Canadian or Japanese expeditions until much later in the flow. But when Columbus is attached, there WILL be a European segment, followed a year or so later by a Japanese segment. Does this mean that the ISS will HAVE to have a crew of four by this time, with a Russian, American, European and Japanese aboard at all times? If this is the case, how will the transportation be arranged: does Japan and Europe have a 'deal' with the Russians to send their astronauts up on Soyuz or with the Americans on the Shuttle? Will there, perhaps, be a third seat on each Soyuz for a Japanese OR a European: ie they alternate with, say, a European flying April-October, followed by a Japanese October-April and so on? Or is a different system planned? Where do the Canadians come in? The Brazilians? The Russians' lucrative business of sending up 'space tourists' in their Soyuz third seats?
  
  Any comments?
  
  Ben Evans
  
  
  
  

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• #1 by Avron on 05 Aug, 2005 14:29
• Good questions... are we sure that the segments will be flown before the shuttle is retired, we cound be in the World of CEV and its new cargo version.. Maybe, transportation can be obtained from China.
• #2 by Chris Bergin on 05 Aug, 2005 14:43
• We've got a story on that guy today.
• #3 by Avron on 05 Aug, 2005 17:01
• Now where would be a lot of items
  1) for sale
  2) to be launched..
  
  Since we have not had much investment thus far from the UK... how, about a few Proton launch vehicles..

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• #4 by FransonUK on 05 Aug, 2005 18:25
• How about no
• #5 by montmein69 on 16 Aug, 2005 12:21
• > I'm aware that whenever Atlantis lifts off on STS-121, it will carry Thomas Reiter
  > as the first European 'expedition' crew member for the ISS.
  
  It seems to be very hazardous to anticipate if the ISS permanent crew would be of 3.
  The decision to have only 2 was taken after the Columbia disaster and the unavailability
  of the Shuttle fleet.
  It is not an evidence to assure a safe session (oxygen, food etc..) when only
  Progress Cargo and Soyuz TM are available to do the job.
  At the moment Shuttle fleet is grounded. Hope the engineers and technicians will
  soon solve the foam problem on the ET.
  On the other hand, if the delay to a safe return to flight increase, I'm not sure, even
   it's possible, that european and russian decide to launch the european spationaut with a Soyuz if the Shuttle still get bogged down.
  
  
  At the moment the deal between USA and the ISS partners is completely out of the
  original agreement (russian had to to sharply increase  their participation for supplying
  the ISS, european and japonese modules are still grounded, no permanent spationaut in the station for Europe or Japan).
  Nonetheless some voices in america suggest to simply stop using the Shuttle.
  
  http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/14/opinion/14sun1.html
  
  I really hope, this is not the future.
• #6 by Chris Bergin on 16 Aug, 2005 16:29
• Unfortunatly the columnists are being sheep with their >"opinion"/14sun1.html< They won't have a say in what happens.
• #7 by JulesVerneATV on 03 Oct, 2005 21:59
• I posted what I know in the ATV thread
  
  http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=545&posts=11
• #8 by Avron on 04 Oct, 2005 04:59
• Quote

  FransonUK - 5/8/2005  2:25 PM
  
  How about no

  
  
  

  Quote

  FransonUK - 3/10/2005  2:11 PM
  
  I agree, but what are the alternatives?

  
  mixing a few threads... you folkes have the connections to get all the parts launched... without the STS,( as a backup)...
  US pays UK for assistance, (as they (US) need to finish the job they agreed to)... UK contracts out the work... pick a partner or two...
• #9 by JulesVerneATV on 14 Oct, 2005 14:48
• news on the atv craft
  
  Like the Russian Progress re-supply ship, the much heavier 20.7-tonne ATV can dock safely to the ISS in the unlikely event of total absence of crew on board. The ATV also has the capability to accomplish its mission alone, even in the case of a failure. The built-in ATV autonomy makes it different from the US Space Shuttle, which does not have automatic rendezvous capability.
  http://www.esa.int/esaHS/SEMSEV5Y3EE_index_0.html
  The ATV is also different from the three-person Soyuz capsule or the unmanned Progress, which relies on the manual takeover by the crew (directly for Soyuz, or remotely for Progress) to cope with malfunctions during the nominal automatic approach. In this aspect, the ATV could be almost called the Autonomous Transfer Vehicle.
  As well as this automatic autonomy, the ATV must also fulfil the ISS man-rated requirements for safety because it docks with the Station. The pressurised cargo carrier must also satisfy the safety and human factors requirements applicable to the habitable modules of the ISS.