Author Topic: Two Californian Senators Call for Competitive Heavy-Lift Propulsion Procurement  (Read 39439 times)

Offline Downix

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Re: SLS to be open for bids??
« Reply #20 on: 06/02/2011 09:03 PM »
Like I said taking on ATK head to head is not the way to do this.


The is no way for Aerojet to "do this" unless they take ATK on head to head and challenge billions of taxpayer dollars being awarded to ATK on a no bid contract.
Not just ATK, Aerojet can also take on PWR as well.  They're a very diverse company.
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Offline Prober

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Re: SLS to be open for bids??
« Reply #21 on: 06/02/2011 09:11 PM »
Very Good Idea IMO.
Bids and competition are generally good things, but at times so is evolution. 
If this is going to be the tactic taken, just cancel the whole damn thing because it no longer becomes worth it given the lack of architecuture, destination(s), time tables, mission scopes.....leadership.

How would it not be in the fiscal best interest of the American people at large for the SLS to be competitively bid? 

Moon and Mars aren't going anywhere, but the country is out of money.



Now ur getting close.....next will come "let's just kill the whole program"
 
 
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ by Thomas Alva Edison

Offline Periander

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Re: SLS to be open for bids??
« Reply #22 on: 06/02/2011 09:54 PM »

Now ur getting close.....next will come "let's just kill the whole program"
 

Pure scaremongering. Competitive bidding isn't going to kill HSF, it's going to save it. What would kill HSF is Constellation redux.

Not just ATK, Aerojet can also take on PWR as well.  They're a very diverse company.

True. The letter specifically noted "the propulsion component of the new Space Launch System (SLS)". That could be aimed at ATK, PWR or both.
« Last Edit: 06/02/2011 09:59 PM by Periander »

Offline M_Puckett

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SpaceX has a rocket factory in Cali.

Offline Prober

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Re: SLS to be open for bids??
« Reply #24 on: 06/02/2011 10:12 PM »

Now ur getting close.....next will come "let's just kill the whole program"
 

Pure scaremongering. Competitive bidding isn't going to kill HSF, it's going to save it. What would kill HSF is Constellation redux.

Not just ATK, Aerojet can also take on PWR as well.  They're a very diverse company.

True. The letter specifically noted "the propulsion component of the new Space Launch System (SLS)". That could be aimed at ATK, PWR or both.

Pure scaremongering...nope check out their voting record before you say that. 
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ by Thomas Alva Edison

Offline Chris Bergin

SpaceX has a rocket factory in Cali.

Hey, you may be on to something there ;)

Offline Downix

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SpaceX has a rocket factory in Cali.

Hey, you may be on to something there ;)
Northrop also has their rocket engine division in California as well.  Boeing space systems also operates out of California.
chuck - Toilet paper has no real value? Try living with 5 other adults for 6 months in a can with no toilet paper. Man oh man. Toilet paper would be worth it's weight in gold!

Offline DDG40

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Lockheed's Satellite business, Commercial and Military is in Cali.

Online QuantumG

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What a lovely white horse they're riding.

Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? Well... have you heard of Zeno's paradox?

Offline Chris Bergin

What a lovely white horse they're riding.


Crikey, this really is the Wild West section now :D

Offline Prober

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SpaceX has a rocket factory in Cali.

Hey, you may be on to something there ;)
Northrop also has their rocket engine division in California as well.  Boeing space systems also operates out of California.

I've seen Sen Boxer on Cspan before....just can't see her working for aerospace.  Can see her working for the Administration's calls.
 
It might look good on the face of it, just doesn't feel right.
 
2017 - Everything Old is New Again.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~ by Thomas Alva Edison

Offline Integrator

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SD is based on the premise of quick start by leveraging existing contracts.  The risk there is the contracts may be challenged by competitors shut out of the process, taking their complaints to Federal court and delaying progress for years. 

This threat has now materialized.

INTEGRATOR


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Offline Downix

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SD is based on the premise of quick start by leveraging existing contracts.  The risk there is the contracts may be challenged by competitors shut out of the process, taking their complaints to Federal court and delaying progress for years. 

This threat has now materialized.

INTEGRATOR

There are only a few ways out of this mess left for us by political meandering which will meet the requirements of the SLS law, and all of them look bad to the companies currently in the process.
chuck - Toilet paper has no real value? Try living with 5 other adults for 6 months in a can with no toilet paper. Man oh man. Toilet paper would be worth it's weight in gold!

Offline Rocket Science

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I hope this does not become another excuse to delay the report in order to consider this "new proposal"...
« Last Edit: 06/03/2011 12:47 AM by Rocket Science »
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator, Vintage auto racer

Online QuantumG

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You think there's trouble now, wait until the equivalent of the recent MPCV = Orion announcement happens for SLS.  This current action is just an attempt to head it off at the pass (yeehaw!).  Once its official that there wont be a competitive procurement we'll see if there's actually going to be a killin' (err, lawsuit).


Edit: acronyms.
« Last Edit: 06/03/2011 01:02 AM by QuantumG »
Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? Well... have you heard of Zeno's paradox?

Offline Chris Bergin

MPCV = Orion. MLPM is Multi-Purpose Logistics Carrier.

Wondering how there's going to be a lawsuit? Can Senators issue lawsuits, or will the company behind the lobbyists show their face and do so?


Offline Pheogh

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I hope this does not become another excuse to delay the report in order to consider this "new proposal"...

That is precisely the goal here. INTEGRATOR has it right, in my words though, "this is the hail mary pass of commercial proponents to up end all of the tenuous progress to date". I can't actually believe that anyone that is interested in Heavy Lift would see this as a good thing. This is the nations last chance for at least the next 2 decades to field an HLV.

The only bright side to all of this is that they clearly see a Block-0 SDLV as being a clear success. People will always let you know what they most fear.

Offline Rabidpanda

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I hope this does not become another excuse to delay the report in order to consider this "new proposal"...

two dingbats in the bush making noise is no excuse to disobey the law.

...and this is coming from the same clongton that posted this less than two weeks ago:

I really, really tire of the intense disrespect shown on so many threads towards the members of Congress in general. While certainly true that none of them are well versed in everything, what they all do well is forge consensus among members of Congress with widely differing views so that legislation can move forward. They each have staff, *highly* intelligent and knowledgeable staff, to advise them on the specifics of the matters before them. To bemoan the fact that the members of the committees that oversee NASA are not personal experts on all things NASA, as if NASA was the only thing they did, displays a profound lack of knowledge on just what the members of Congress actually do. Continuing from there to demean those same members of Congress for that lack of personal expertise only adds insult to injury and further displays an untoward immaturity unbecoming an adult.

Serving our nation and serving our human spaceflight program does not require that each member of Congress involved be an expert in the fields under consideration. It does require that they each personally acknowledge that to themselves, that their staffs are well informed and that they make efficient use of their staffs. I can tell you from personal experience that the members of Congress involved in NASA's affairs all have well informed staff and that they all make very efficient use of their staff. Having said that, it is not surprising that a member may occasionally misuse a technical term, like Senator Huchinson did, because the vast majority of them are not technical people. They are politicians, not engineers. But like good engineers, good politicians defer to those whose knowledge base exceeds their own on any given subject. That is exactly what the members of Congress who oversee NASA do.

By the way, the term "politician" is not a dirty word, as some of you seem to treat it. Political life is an honored profession, and exceedingly more difficult to navigate than most of you can even begin to imagine in your wildest dreams. I dare say that the majority of you would not survive the experience if you tried.

Now, to showing a little respect:

They are *not* "congress critters".
They are "Representative", or "Senator", or "Legislator", or "Mr.", or "Mrs." or "Miss" or "Ms".
They are *not* "congress critters".

Beginning with this post, every time I see anyone refer to a member of Congress as a "congress critter", I will push the "Report to Moderator" button and report the person for using personally insulting language on the forum.

I would say that 'dingbat' is a whole lot more disrespectful than 'congress critter'.
« Last Edit: 06/03/2011 01:05 AM by Rabidpanda »

Offline Pheogh

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I hope this does not become another excuse to delay the report in order to consider this "new proposal"...

two dingbats in the bush making noise is no excuse to disobey the law.

Their excuses to date have been pretty thin and have delayed it quite effectively. These 2 dingbats are just the messengers. There is a far larger contingent of very savy lobbyist right behind them.

Offline Jason Sole

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Then it's a disgraceful move if they are trying to delay the report again, as much as the law shouldn't allow that per reporting date.

IF they manage any impact, and I'm guessing they won't, we should start calling it the Senate Launch System, as these two Californian Senators seem to think they are engineers now.

Can't say I've seen their faces at many of the NASA hearings.

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