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STS-135 Aerial Photos of Landing?
by
Riley1066
on 01 Jun, 2011 05:43
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Wouldn't it be an appropriate thing to have NASA do some aerial photography of Atlantis as it lands to end its mission? I'm sure NASA could set up the flight paths of the chase planes so that they got very stunning views but kept the flight path safe for the vehicle.
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#1
by
Jim
on 01 Jun, 2011 09:51
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Wouldn't it be an appropriate thing to have NASA do some aerial photography of Atlantis as it lands to end its mission? I'm sure NASA could set up the flight paths of the chase planes so that they got very stunning views but kept the flight path safe for the vehicle.
No, because there is no way for the chase planes to practice such maneuvers. The SR-71 was used in the past. There hasn't been chase planes for maybe 100 missions.
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#2
by
psloss
on 01 Jun, 2011 12:32
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Another issue is that there's no guarantee that the approach would be lighted. A daylight landing was one of the criteria for the very early flights.
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#3
by
Riley1066
on 01 Jun, 2011 13:04
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Yes but this is the last mission ever ... I'm sure they could incorporate chase planes into the last mission as a sort of color guard (with photographic duties) into the flight ...
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#4
by
Riley1066
on 01 Jun, 2011 13:04
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Another issue is that there's no guarantee that the approach would be lighted. A daylight landing was one of the criteria for the very early flights.
Of course that's a given that it would have to be in a daylight landing.
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#5
by
Jim
on 01 Jun, 2011 13:12
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Yes but this is the last mission ever ... I'm sure they could incorporate chase planes into the last mission as a sort of color guard (with photographic duties) into the flight ...
So what if it is the last mission, there is no way to train for it. The risk isn't worth it.
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#6
by
psloss
on 01 Jun, 2011 13:14
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Yes but this is the last mission ever ... I'm sure they could incorporate chase planes into the last mission as a sort of color guard (with photographic duties) into the flight ...
It's not really a question of feasibility.
It's like other suggestions for imagery, like lining up the orbiters together before they go out to their respective museums -- there are much more limited resources today and tomorrow. They won't be able to run with all the ideas like this.
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#7
by
shuttlefanatic
on 02 Jun, 2011 03:03
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As psloss suggests, I don't think training is really the concern. The pilots they have are pros, and with the training they already have, should be able to fly a few hundred or a thousand feet abeam a shuttle on approach with no danger to either craft.
They did photo-chase for the SCA as recently as STS-125 (
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=17221.msg414674#msg414674) using a T-38, which I believe were also the jets chasing the shuttle in the early days of the program.
FWIW, among the various final flight suggestions I've heard (i.e. land at EDW and do a retirement SCA tour back to KSC), photo-chase for a shuttle landing would be one of the cheapest to pull off in terms of manpower and cost.
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#8
by
Jorge
on 02 Jun, 2011 03:31
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Wouldn't it be an appropriate thing to have NASA do some aerial photography of Atlantis as it lands to end its mission? I'm sure NASA could set up the flight paths of the chase planes so that they got very stunning views but kept the flight path safe for the vehicle.
No, because there is no way for the chase planes to practice such maneuvers.
Practice during STA runs?
The SR-71 was used in the past.
And T-38s. And I'm sure the T-38 chase planes used the STA as a training target.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:STS-3_landing.jpg
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#9
by
lcs
on 02 Jun, 2011 03:32
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If you have any doubts about how spectacular and appropriate it would be to do it, here are the chase plane views of Columbia from 30 years ago:
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#10
by
shuttlefanatic
on 02 Jun, 2011 03:41
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Oh man, does that bring back memories from my childhood years....
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#11
by
chksix
on 02 Jun, 2011 10:26
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Amazingly soft landing by Young!
I saw it live (on tv) when it happened.
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#12
by
Jim
on 02 Jun, 2011 11:31
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Wouldn't it be an appropriate thing to have NASA do some aerial photography of Atlantis as it lands to end its mission? I'm sure NASA could set up the flight paths of the chase planes so that they got very stunning views but kept the flight path safe for the vehicle.
No, because there is no way for the chase planes to practice such maneuvers.
Practice during STA runs?
The SR-71 was used in the past.
And T-38s. And I'm sure the T-38 chase planes used the STA as a training target.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:STS-3_landing.jpg
The SR-71 was used as a training target for the T-38's.
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#13
by
Jim
on 02 Jun, 2011 11:51
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As psloss suggests, I don't think training is really the concern. The pilots they have are pros, and with the training they already have, should be able to fly a few hundred or a thousand feet abeam a shuttle on approach with no danger to either craft.
They did photo-chase for the SCA as recently as STS-125 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=17221.msg414674#msg414674) using a T-38, which I believe were also the jets chasing the shuttle in the early days of the program.
Phil didn't suggest anything wrt training
It doesn't matter if the pilots are pros, it is not a task that is similar to anything they have done.
Photo chase for an SCA is nothing, it is a low, slow and non maneuvering target. Anyone can fly chase for it.
To train the T-38 chase pilots, an SR-71 was used to simulate the high speed, high descent rate approach of the orbiter. It is not the normal flight regime of a T-38. Because of the nature of the shuttle descent, chase pilots would overshoot or undershoot and never meet up with the orbiter. It took a few flights to get the technique down. Current NASA pilots don't have this luxury.
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#14
by
lcs
on 02 Jun, 2011 14:50
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Amazingly soft landing by Young!
I saw it live (on tv) when it happened.
So did I, but I never realized how tricky it was for the T-38s to keep up, while broadcasting a live TV picture of the descent. The one shot where the shuttle is falling like a brick before flaring sums up the challenge.
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#15
by
mrhuggy
on 02 Jun, 2011 19:48
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It would be nice to have, including landing at Edwards and have a tour back.
I wonder how long a F-15 diving high and fast could keep up with the shuttle while the shuttle is at mach 2?
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#16
by
kartmarc
on 02 Jun, 2011 19:58
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Wouldn't it be an appropriate thing to have NASA do some aerial photography of Atlantis as it lands to end its mission? I'm sure NASA could set up the flight paths of the chase planes so that they got very stunning views but kept the flight path safe for the vehicle.
Great to see that I'm not the only one who wants to get unique images for the last mission, as I proposed the same in an other thread (NASA HD TV)
Hello everybody,
As it seems that several of you are close to NASA people (or at least closer than I am !) so I guess it is worth to say it... can anyone suggest the following to someone from NASA medias ?
As the last shuttle mission approaches, it would be great to get new and unusual videos from NASA, like for example :
- instead of static camera, to follow the launch preparations from a cameraman who would go with the astronauts from the elevator to the astrovan, inside it, and up to the whit room, with ambient sound ! previously recorded videos instead of live videos would also be great.
- HD launch video from inside the cockpit, with ambient sound and astronauts live comms
- shuttle landing in formation with 2 or 3 T-38 airplanes... could you imagine such an incredible scene as Atlantis touches down ?
- videos from a T-38, as it was for STS-1... but in HD ! I wasn't born in 1981, I couldn't live this event live on TV, it would be an amazing shot for the final mission.
I know these ideas are probably not feasible... but I would have been angry at myself not having tried !
Regards,
kartmarc
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#17
by
Pheogh
on 02 Jun, 2011 20:15
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So I guess it's out of the question that they re-enter over the US on a descending node as well then so at least the taxpayers that have supported this program for so long could get one last look at her?
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#18
by
psloss
on 02 Jun, 2011 20:30
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So I guess it's out of the question that they re-enter over the US on a descending node as well then so at least the taxpayers that have supported this program for so long could get one last look at her?
Not sure if it's out of the question, but it's not the plan.
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#19
by
shuttlefanatic
on 02 Jun, 2011 21:12
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I wonder how long a F-15 diving high and fast could keep up with the shuttle while the shuttle is at mach 2?
The shuttle is subsonic by the time it intercepts the HAC at about Mach 0.8 and 40kft. I wouldn't think an intercept any earlier than that would be prudent.
From a textbook perspective, the HAC would seem to set up a favorable geometry for chase intercept. However, I'll defer to Jim's statement above on the difficulties of where this fits into a T-38 (or F-15) flight envelope.