Russia to Develop Rocket for New-Generation Manned Spacecraft

[Downix]

Well, sticking to the subject of new-generation spacecraft, I noticed that the stretched Blok-D and the hydrogen derived Blok-D are just the right size to fit on top of Rus-M.  I suspect that both will be an option once it is ready.

[Moe Grills]

All 'someone' needs is to pay 150 billion dollars for the privilege of buying a seat on such a modestly upgraded Soyuz. (apparently an anonymous billionaire has).

that should be 150 million dollars, If I remember correctly.
Perhaps it could make for some nice "Earth Rising" photographs. I hope someone pays for it.

Yes. Me bad. It is 150 million. the the 150 billion was a typo.

[fregate]

Well, sticking to the subject of new-generation spacecraft, I noticed that the stretched Blok-D and the hydrogen derived Blok-D are just the right size to fit on top of Rus-M.  I suspect that both will be an option once it is ready.

IMHO Cryogenic tug "Yastreb" (Hawk) is not derived from Block-D (propulsion system based on RD-0126 engine). 
KeroLOX tug "Impulse" is a deep modernization of Block-DM (propulsion system based on RD-58 derived engine with smaller trust and higher specific impulse).
Both tugs will be used for unmanned missions to GTO/GEO orbits. 

[Downix]

Well, sticking to the subject of new-generation spacecraft, I noticed that the stretched Blok-D and the hydrogen derived Blok-D are just the right size to fit on top of Rus-M.  I suspect that both will be an option once it is ready.

IMHO Cryogenic tug "Yastreb" (Hawk) is not derived from Block-D (propulsion system based on RD-0126 engine). 
KeroLOX tug "Impulse" is a deep modernization of Block-DM (propulsion system based on RD-58 derived engine with smaller trust and higher specific impulse).
Both tugs will be used for unmanned missions to GTO/GEO orbits. 

I was speaking of the 11S861, which uses a stretched Blok-D LOX tank, new LH2 tank and RD-0126 engine.

[fregate]

Well, sticking to the subject of new-generation spacecraft, I noticed that the stretched Blok-D and the hydrogen derived Blok-D are just the right size to fit on top of Rus-M.  I suspect that both will be an option once it is ready.

IMHO Cryogenic tug "Yastreb" (Hawk) is not derived from Block-D (propulsion system based on RD-0126 engine). 
KeroLOX tug "Impulse" is a deep modernization of Block-DM (propulsion system based on RD-58 derived engine with smaller trust and higher specific impulse).
Both tugs will be used for unmanned missions to GTO/GEO orbits. 

I was speaking of the 11S861, which uses a stretched Blok-D LOX tank, new LH2 tank and RD-0126 engine.

I disagree on last statement - 11С861 was a KeroLOX Block DM-2 and has nothing to do with hydrogen cryogenic tug. 

[Downix]

Well, sticking to the subject of new-generation spacecraft, I noticed that the stretched Blok-D and the hydrogen derived Blok-D are just the right size to fit on top of Rus-M.  I suspect that both will be an option once it is ready.

IMHO Cryogenic tug "Yastreb" (Hawk) is not derived from Block-D (propulsion system based on RD-0126 engine). 
KeroLOX tug "Impulse" is a deep modernization of Block-DM (propulsion system based on RD-58 derived engine with smaller trust and higher specific impulse).
Both tugs will be used for unmanned missions to GTO/GEO orbits. 

I was speaking of the 11S861, which uses a stretched Blok-D LOX tank, new LH2 tank and RD-0126 engine.

I disagree on last statement - 11С861 was a KeroLOX Block DM-2 and has nothing to do with hydrogen cryogenic tug. 

Editing this to be less snarky.  The last time I checked, Roscosmos have a hydrolox based 11C861 listed as the upper stage of the Rus-M.

[fregate]

Ok, we are definitely had been LOST in 3 trees:
This is ORIGINAL cryogenic Upper Stage YASTREB ("Ястреб") designed for LV Onega

Image shows a 3rd stage of launch vehicle and cryogenic upper stage Yastreb. 

[fregate]

Jan 2010 TsSKB Progress presentation

As you could see Rus M LV could use either Block DM (KeroLOX) or Yastreb (Cryogenic) upper stage.
Hint: КВРБ translates from Russian as Oxygen/Hydrogen Upper Stage 

[fregate]

I suspect that reason for confusion might be a fact that Russian Space Agency had a common R&D program DVINA that incorporated multiple type of upper stages.

[Downix]

I suspect that reason for confusion might be a fact that Russian Space Agency had a common R&D program DVINA that incorporated multiple type of upper stages.

That would indeed explain a lot of the confusion.

I suspect that Russia is being very cautious, having two options.  A new hydrolox and one utilizing the existing Blok-D.  So if something happens, they're not dependent on a new stage to get initial capability.  This makes a lot of sense.

[baldusi]

I suspect that Russia is being very cautious, having two options.  A new hydrolox and one utilizing the existing Blok-D.  So if something happens, they're not dependent on a new stage to get initial capability.  This makes a lot of sense.

I guess that's the secret of their success. The modularize everything in such a way that you can separate everything in small projects. And for each piece they make dual developments. One is adapting an older (proven) design, the other is more radical.

[Downix]

I suspect that Russia is being very cautious, having two options.  A new hydrolox and one utilizing the existing Blok-D.  So if something happens, they're not dependent on a new stage to get initial capability.  This makes a lot of sense.

I guess that's the secret of their success. The modularize everything in such a way that you can separate everything in small projects. And for each piece they make dual developments. One is adapting an older (proven) design, the other is more radical.

Probably why Angara and Rus-M as well. Either of these upper stages will work on them, and even on the existing Proton and Zenit as well. There is no long pole here, at no point a gap. They have hedged their bets well.

[Danderman]

I suspect that reason for confusion might be a fact that Russian Space Agency had a common R&D program DVINA that incorporated multiple type of upper stages.

That would indeed explain a lot of the confusion.

I suspect that Russia is being very cautious, having two options.  A new hydrolox and one utilizing the existing Blok-D.  So if something happens, they're not dependent on a new stage to get initial capability.  This makes a lot of sense.

Not really.

The baseline upper stage for Rus-M is the RD-0146 based stage, there is no backup or alternate.  Its as real as Rus-M.

Dvina, AFAIK is a paper proposal that competes with nothing.

Roskosmos has demonstrated that it rarely has funding for one option, let alone two.

[fregate]

I suspect that reason for confusion might be a fact that Russian Space Agency had a common R&D program DVINA that incorporated multiple type of upper stages.

That would indeed explain a lot of the confusion.

I suspect that Russia is being very cautious, having two options.  A new hydrolox and one utilizing the existing Blok-D.  So if something happens, they're not dependent on a new stage to get initial capability.  This makes a lot of sense.

Not really.

The baseline upper stage for Rus-M is the RD-0146 based stage, there is no backup or alternate.  Its as real as Rus-M.

Dvina, AFAIK is a paper proposal that competes with nothing.

Roskosmos has demonstrated that it rarely has funding for one option, let alone two.

With all due respect - you are mixing 4xRD-0146 propelled cryogenic 2nd stage of RUS M LV with
1xRD-0126 propelled cryogenic space tug YASTREB (integrated with payload and placed under PLF of LV). 

Dvina R&D contract had been funded - the latest Block DM-03 space tug failure during Proton-M launch in Dec 2010
had been caused by new modification of space tug developed and implemented under Dvina project.

Would you like me to show you Dvina project budget allocation? 

[fregate]

Russian Federal Space Program Audit Report by Treasury, 2010   (In Russian)
Table below shows ACTUAL spending during 2006-2008 and BUDGET for 2006-2015 managed by Russian Space Agency:
within DVINA R&D project (million of Rubles):

Who is who in a project:
"Dvina - KVTK" - Cryogenic Oxygen/Hydrogen space tug implementation, awarded to GKNPTs Khrunichev (Moscow), completion 2015
"Dvina - TM"  -  Electrically powered space tug implementation awarded to NPO Lavochkina (Khimki), completion 2015
"Dvina - DM" - Block DM modernization awarded to RSC Energia (Korolev), completion 2015
"Dvina - F"  -  Fregat-SB modernization awarded to NPO Lavochkina (Khimki), completion 2010

Note: for June 2010 exchange rate was 31.0741336177 Rubles per US $1. For example for 3 years RCS Energia spent less than US $5.4 million for Block DM modernization (even less because FX rate effective for Jun 2010). 

Regards from Jerry Maguire (the movie)

[blasphemer]

Why the need for a separate manned and unmanned launcher (Soyuz / Proton, Rus-M / Angara)? It does not seem to be a very cost-effective solution. 

[fregate]

Why the need for a separate manned and unmanned launcher (Soyuz / Proton, Rus-M / Angara)? It does not seem to be a very cost-effective solution. 

I conquer:
- In theory Angara would replace Proton as soon as A-5 would pass test flights (we are not there yet, and more important Angara did not fly yet).
- Even in theory RUS M and A-3 would not replace Soyuz LV, Soyuz quite nicely fits as a medium class launcher, this fact had been recognized by ESA.   

Reasons are mostly (geo)political:
- The most modern Soviet LV belong to Ukraine (Zenit);
- The main Russian spaceport belong to Kazakhstan; 
- Russia is looking for INDEPENDENT access to space since 1991;
- Plesetsk is a military spaceport (at least it was) and not suitable for manned and most of commercial launches.

All of above are actually driving forces to establish a new base of operations in Amur region.   

[Danderman]

I suspect that reason for confusion might be a fact that Russian Space Agency had a common R&D program DVINA that incorporated multiple type of upper stages.

That would indeed explain a lot of the confusion.

I suspect that Russia is being very cautious, having two options.  A new hydrolox and one utilizing the existing Blok-D.  So if something happens, they're not dependent on a new stage to get initial capability.  This makes a lot of sense.

Not really.

The baseline upper stage for Rus-M is the RD-0146 based stage, there is no backup or alternate.  Its as real as Rus-M.

Dvina, AFAIK is a paper proposal that competes with nothing.

Roskosmos has demonstrated that it rarely has funding for one option, let alone two.

With all due respect - you are mixing 4xRD-0146 propelled cryogenic 2nd stage of RUS M LV with
1xRD-0126 propelled cryogenic space tug YASTREB (integrated with payload and placed under PLF of LV). 

Dvina R&D contract had been funded - the latest Block DM-03 space tug failure during Proton-M launch in Dec 2010
had been caused by new modification of space tug developed and implemented under Dvina project.

Would you like me to show you Dvina project budget allocation? 

I didn't realize that Dvina had 2 components: a small effort at minor modifications of existing upper stages and a big program to create new upper stages that is poorly funded but will increase funding Real Soon Now.

[Salo]

I suspect that reason for confusion might be a fact that Russian Space Agency had a common R&D program DVINA that incorporated multiple type of upper stages.

That would indeed explain a lot of the confusion.

I suspect that Russia is being very cautious, having two options.  A new hydrolox and one utilizing the existing Blok-D.  So if something happens, they're not dependent on a new stage to get initial capability.  This makes a lot of sense.

Not really.

The baseline upper stage for Rus-M is the RD-0146 based stage, there is no backup or alternate.  Its as real as Rus-M.

Dvina, AFAIK is a paper proposal that competes with nothing.

Roskosmos has demonstrated that it rarely has funding for one option, let alone two.

RD-0146 will used on the second stage Rus-M.
Dvina-DM (DM-03) is a upper stage for GTO/GSO orbit.

[Danderman]

RD-0146 will used on the second stage Rus-M.
Dvina-DM (DM-03) is a upper stage for GTO/GSO orbit.

Yep, the RD-0146 stage is for Rus-M, and there is no backup.

Dvina-DM is a minor modification of Blok-DM (the one that was inappropriately fueled for the Glonass launch).

There are also fairly advanced paper projects that have received minimal funding under the Dvina program.