LIVE: CCDev-2 Awards and Decision Discussion - April 18

[Namechange User]

No, but then again, Ariane core is designed and has flown and my educated opinion is the dynamic loads and environments are driven by the first stage.

[Jim]

No, but then again, Ariane core is designed and has flown and my educated opinion is the dynamic loads and environments are driven by the first stage.

It was attached to it's first stage differently, so different loads

[Ronsmytheiii]

Sh#t just got real!

Bezos announcess fully-reusable TSTO!

http://www.hobbyspace.com/nucleus/index.php?itemid=28803

Not really.  See the "patent" he requested. 

Still, sounds like a reincarnation of the Chrysler SERV:

http://aviationtrivia.blogspot.com/2010/12/chrysler-serv-thinking-out-of-box-for.html

[jongoff]

USA is working with Boeing on the CST-100.  USA was the lead on the CSTS but by no means the only company involved. 

USA is also working with SNC on the DreamChaser as well as a number of other companies and concepts.

That's pretty cool news OV.  Genuine congratulations on the good news.

~Jon

[Chris Bergin]

Boeing PAO with some images and video linkage:

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=13&cat=23

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space_exploration/CST_to_ISS_1080_32kb.mov

[Robotbeat]

USA is working with Boeing on the CST-100.  USA was the lead on the CSTS but by no means the only company involved. 

USA is also working with SNC on the DreamChaser as well as a number of other companies and concepts.

That's pretty cool news OV.  Genuine congratulations on the good news.

~Jon

Agreed!

[Namechange User]

No, but then again, Ariane core is designed and has flown and my educated opinion is the dynamic loads and environments are driven by the first stage.

It was attached to it's first stage differently, so different loads

Thanks......

[Namechange User]

Sh#t just got real!

Bezos announcess fully-reusable TSTO!

http://www.hobbyspace.com/nucleus/index.php?itemid=28803

Not really.  See the "patent" he requested. 

Still, sounds like a reincarnation of the Chrysler SERV:

http://aviationtrivia.blogspot.com/2010/12/chrysler-serv-thinking-out-of-box-for.html

I was also refering to the water recovery "patent" which also kind of let the cat out of the bag.

[Antares]

Kudos to NASA for releasing a very detailed selection statement.

[Robotbeat]

Kudos to NASA for releasing a very detailed selection statement.

Agreed!!!

[alexw]

If Liberty is dead, and I think it would be more accurate to say it "ain't looking great", then that also dooms the Ares I ML - several hundred million dollars worth. UNLESS something can be done with past Block 0 (that goes on a Shuttle ML) SLS.

   IIRC, it was posted a little while back (Ross?) that the loads analysis conclusion was that the Ares I MLP could be reused for Atlas (or Delta?), but not the Heavies.

   It seems less likely, especially given ATP for some form of SLS, that it would be worth rebuilding LC-39B and the MLP just for crewed Atlas V 402, but it's still (as far as we know) a publicly-possible CONOPS.

     -Alex

[Downix]

If Liberty is dead, and I think it would be more accurate to say it "ain't looking great", then that also dooms the Ares I ML - several hundred million dollars worth. UNLESS something can be done with past Block 0 (that goes on a Shuttle ML) SLS.

   IIRC, it was posted a little while back (Ross?) that the loads analysis conclusion was that the Ares I MLP could be reused for Atlas (or Delta?), but not the Heavies.

   It seems less likely, especially given ATP for some form of SLS, that it would be worth rebuilding LC-39B and the MLP just for crewed Atlas V 402, but it's still (as far as we know) a publicly-possible CONOPS.

     -Alex

I saw plans on what was needed for Atlas, and it seemed pretty straight forward to me.

[RocketEconomist327]

If Liberty is dead, and I think it would be more accurate to say it "ain't looking great", then that also dooms the Ares I ML - several hundred million dollars worth. UNLESS something can be done with past Block 0 (that goes on a Shuttle ML) SLS.

   IIRC, it was posted a little while back (Ross?) that the loads analysis conclusion was that the Ares I MLP could be reused for Atlas (or Delta?), but not the Heavies.

   It seems less likely, especially given ATP for some form of SLS, that it would be worth rebuilding LC-39B and the MLP just for crewed Atlas V 402, but it's still (as far as we know) a publicly-possible CONOPS.

     -Alex

I saw plans on what was needed for Atlas, and it seemed pretty straight forward to me.

Wonder if the MLP could be configured on a crawler for 39B clean pad that could be a universal launcher for Atlas, Delta, and Falcon?  Thinking Delta IVH for Orion/MPCV.

I honestly do not know the exact specs of the MLP... Lego MLP?  Franken MLP?

[Robotbeat]

If Liberty is dead, and I think it would be more accurate to say it "ain't looking great", then that also dooms the Ares I ML - several hundred million dollars worth. UNLESS something can be done with past Block 0 (that goes on a Shuttle ML) SLS.

   IIRC, it was posted a little while back (Ross?) that the loads analysis conclusion was that the Ares I MLP could be reused for Atlas (or Delta?), but not the Heavies.

   It seems less likely, especially given ATP for some form of SLS, that it would be worth rebuilding LC-39B and the MLP just for crewed Atlas V 402, but it's still (as far as we know) a publicly-possible CONOPS.

     -Alex

I saw plans on what was needed for Atlas, and it seemed pretty straight forward to me.

Wonder if the MLP could be configured on a crawler for 39B clean pad that could be a universal launcher for Atlas, Delta, and Falcon?  Thinking Delta IVH for Orion/MPCV.

I honestly do not know the exact specs of the MLP... Lego MLP?  Franken MLP?

What does this have to do with CCDev 2?

[Downix]

If Liberty is dead, and I think it would be more accurate to say it "ain't looking great", then that also dooms the Ares I ML - several hundred million dollars worth. UNLESS something can be done with past Block 0 (that goes on a Shuttle ML) SLS.

   IIRC, it was posted a little while back (Ross?) that the loads analysis conclusion was that the Ares I MLP could be reused for Atlas (or Delta?), but not the Heavies.

   It seems less likely, especially given ATP for some form of SLS, that it would be worth rebuilding LC-39B and the MLP just for crewed Atlas V 402, but it's still (as far as we know) a publicly-possible CONOPS.

     -Alex

I saw plans on what was needed for Atlas, and it seemed pretty straight forward to me.

Wonder if the MLP could be configured on a crawler for 39B clean pad that could be a universal launcher for Atlas, Delta, and Falcon?  Thinking Delta IVH for Orion/MPCV.

I honestly do not know the exact specs of the MLP... Lego MLP?  Franken MLP?

What does this have to do with CCDev 2?

As this is one discussed option for launching several of these vehicles on Atlas, it seems relevant to me.

[Robotbeat]

If Liberty is dead, and I think it would be more accurate to say it "ain't looking great", then that also dooms the Ares I ML - several hundred million dollars worth. UNLESS something can be done with past Block 0 (that goes on a Shuttle ML) SLS.

   IIRC, it was posted a little while back (Ross?) that the loads analysis conclusion was that the Ares I MLP could be reused for Atlas (or Delta?), but not the Heavies.

   It seems less likely, especially given ATP for some form of SLS, that it would be worth rebuilding LC-39B and the MLP just for crewed Atlas V 402, but it's still (as far as we know) a publicly-possible CONOPS.

     -Alex

I saw plans on what was needed for Atlas, and it seemed pretty straight forward to me.

Wonder if the MLP could be configured on a crawler for 39B clean pad that could be a universal launcher for Atlas, Delta, and Falcon?  Thinking Delta IVH for Orion/MPCV.

I honestly do not know the exact specs of the MLP... Lego MLP?  Franken MLP?

What does this have to do with CCDev 2?

As this is one discussed option for launching several of these vehicles on Atlas, it seems relevant to me.

Only very, very tangentially. Besides, this is lego rocket building. It needs to be on a different thread.

[Chris Bergin]

If Liberty is dead, and I think it would be more accurate to say it "ain't looking great", then that also dooms the Ares I ML - several hundred million dollars worth. UNLESS something can be done with past Block 0 (that goes on a Shuttle ML) SLS.

   IIRC, it was posted a little while back (Ross?) that the loads analysis conclusion was that the Ares I MLP could be reused for Atlas (or Delta?), but not the Heavies.

   It seems less likely, especially given ATP for some form of SLS, that it would be worth rebuilding LC-39B and the MLP just for crewed Atlas V 402, but it's still (as far as we know) a publicly-possible CONOPS.

     -Alex

Yeah, I remember asking one of the actual ML guys about other vehicles. Liberty would have been the only one that could use that launch mount, and for EELVs etc as they've had to scrap the whole mount and build a new one - to the point it might be viable just starting over, based on costs involved. Might as well send the Ares ML to Disney.....at least you could still slap the Rollercoaster EES on it and charge 5 bucks a shout

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2006/11/nasa-will-build-rollercoaster-for-ares-i-escape/

I'd assume that also means SLS is not simple either, but at least they can start with the near nominal Pad 39A to start with and worry about the deal for 39B later.

[A_M_Swallow]

Since CCDev2 is 4 manned spacecraft what life support do they have and how is it being tested?  (I did not see any life support payment points.)

In CCDev1 Paragon was producing advanced ECLSS hardware.  Are the spacecraft using it?  Or are the companies developing their own?

For life support I am including oxygen, removing CO₂ and moisture, storing food, cooking food, washing and toilet facilities.

[pathfinder_01]

Since CCDev2 is 4 manned spacecraft what life support do they have and how is it being tested?  (I did not see any life support payment points.)

None and none needed.  Pargon produced it and cst100 has its own system.

In CCDev1 Paragon was producing advanced ECLSS hardware.  Are the spacecraft using it?  Or are the companies developing their own?

Not published. Dragon and Orion both use different systems from Pargon rightnow but Draons is not built to support a crew(yet). Paragon was not building an advanced life support system nor a closed loop one.Just one suitable for a crew taxi(i.e. Be cheap and safe). Orions is more suitable for a long trip.

For life support I am including oxygen, removing CO₂ and moisture, storing food, cooking food, washing and toilet facilities.

Food will not be much of an issues(you can use the vendors they use for the ISS/Shuttle). No need to cook(short flight) water systems already have been developed for the shuttle(and bottled water with a value to control spills could do). No toilet needed(short flights--same day docking perhaps a plastic bag or diapers will do).  Paragon handles co2 and moisture control.

[simonbp]

Part of the SpaceX work is for life support, so presumably they're just doing it themselves. Not sure about the others.

Also, it's worth noting that all three possible spacesuit manufactures (Oceaneering, ILC, and Orbital Outfitters) were rejected for funding, specifically because their concepts were not tied to a single vehicle...