Author Topic: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread (1)  (Read 697991 times)

Offline Kharkov

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1400 on: 11/28/2012 08:18 am »
I realise that the BBC website isn't a technical journal but how about some figures?

How much did they chill the air down to? For how long? How much airflow was there?

I'm hoping that REL will put something more detailed up on their website shortly...

EDIT: Didn't see the Bond quote. Down to -150 for 10 minutes.
« Last Edit: 11/28/2012 08:32 am by Kharkov »
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Offline tlesinsk

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1401 on: 11/28/2012 08:28 am »
They are talking about the successful tests that occurred in july, right?  If so, that's old news.

Quote
"We completed the programme by getting down to -150C, running for 10 minutes," said Mr Bond. "We've demonstrated that the pre-cooler is behaving absolutely as predicted."

They only had tested preliminary cryo in July.

Woo-HOOO :)

Offline Turbomotive

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1402 on: 11/28/2012 08:36 am »
Skylon spaceplane engine concept achieves key milestone

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20510112

No, this is new news. Interesting on a number of fronts. Presumably, with release from ESA, etc., this phase of testing is now finally over. It feels slightly anticlimactic..
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The company must now raise the 250m needed
Puts into doubt the idea that this money would be released on successful completion of the test.

Right now though, congrats to REL for wrapping this up before the end of 2012. Now it's time to move to the test rig engine and NTVs!

A propos recent discussions,
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In addition, Esa is keen to do some study work with REL. Although it is currently working on new versions of its Ariane rocket - a classic expendable vehicle - the agency also wants keep an eye on future launcher technologies.

I do like Jonathan Amos - it was his report on the ESA endorsement of Skylon's tech that alerted me to Skylon's stealthy rise, and he's right on top of this story.

 


« Last Edit: 11/28/2012 08:42 am by Turbomotive »
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Offline grondilu

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1403 on: 11/28/2012 08:51 am »

One of the many things I really like about Skylon is that even if this thing is not useful for space travel, it will be for aeronautics, as it will allow a return of a supersonic airliner.  So  no wonder they have no difficulties finding funds, as this article seems to confirm:

"Yes, we would encourage government money but we're not reliant on it and we're certainly not depending on it."

Offline flymetothemoon

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1404 on: 11/28/2012 09:37 am »
EDIT: Didn't see the Bond quote. Down to -150 for 10 minutes.

Yes it's new and great news. They have obviously been waiting on ESA's confirmation of their test results and with that, this ESA funded project is complete and successful.

With regards to aeroshell heating on the way up, it's less than 10 minutes until rocket mode (i.e. in any significant amounts of atmosphere), of which very little time will be at Mach 5, so I believe heating on the way up isn't an issue. Where it would be an issue is for a LAPCAT / A2 configuration which would remain at Mach 5 in atmosphere for 4 hours+.

Just because funds haven't been announced yet doesn't mean they're not in the pipeline - he said hopefully...  :)
« Last Edit: 11/28/2012 09:40 am by flymetothemoon »

Offline flymetothemoon

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1405 on: 11/28/2012 09:50 am »
Musk is going do what he wants despite Skylon.

What Musk wants is going to Mars.  If Skylon happens to be a better strategy to do so, he might be willing to join Reactionengines.

I don't think Reaction Engines would be a threat to Musk in any case. He is going for much larger vehicles so will be able to create and address different markets in timeframes any Skylon derived vehicle couldn't possibly match e.g. some future Jumbo-Skylon.

I think, if SpaceX achieve re-usability, over time, the two approaches would prove to be complementary and market-dominating. Being different sorts of vehicles, they will be able to solve different sorts of problems. providing lots of excellent opportunities for space applications going forward.

One of the many things I really like about Skylon is that even if this thing is not useful for space travel, it will be for aeronautics, as it will allow a return of a supersonic airliner.

Quite. This breakthrough is very far from being *just* about Skylon.
« Last Edit: 11/28/2012 09:56 am by flymetothemoon »

Offline flymetothemoon

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1406 on: 11/28/2012 09:58 am »
So, what's next; building a unit to run on a test stand?

Phase 3 - 30 month Programme:
- Raise Engine tech to TRL 6 through ground testing
- Complete the design of Sabre4 to manufacturing drawings
- Ensure vehicle requirements and Sabre4 design are compatible
- Flight test the nacelle design (desirable)

Total Engine Programme (with NTV) 220m

- Aircraft requirement studies      6m
- Preparation for Phase 4      30m
- Engine Technology Demonstration   30m
- Sabre4 design            134m
- NTV                  20m

from:
http://www.slideshare.net/Stellvia/progress-on-the-skylon-reusable-spaceplane

Offline Rugoz

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1407 on: 11/28/2012 10:19 am »

Good news.

From the article:

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"Yes, we would encourage government money but we're not reliant on it and we're certainly not depending on it.

Quote
"What is more important to us is government endorsement. That gives everyone the confidence that the UK is behind this project."

Those two statements kind of contradict each other  ;D

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it will be for aeronautics, as it will allow a return of a supersonic airliner.

Very sceptical about supersonic airliners. Their usage will always be limited since they are not allowed to fly over land (yes, even those supposedly silent designs from boeing).



Offline flymetothemoon

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1408 on: 11/28/2012 10:26 am »
Very sceptical about supersonic airliners. Their usage will always be limited since they are not allowed to fly over land (yes, even those supposedly silent designs from boeing).

from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_Engines_A2
"According to Alan Bond, the A2 design could fly subsonically from Brussels International Airport into the North Atlantic then reaching Mach 5 across the North Pole and over the Pacific to Australia[2]

The great circle route is not used in this example because the route travels mostly over land. The sonic boom generated by travelling at supersonic speed can cause great discomfort for people on the ground, which was why Concorde was prohibited from flying supersonically over land."

A2 can handle the distance from Europe to Sydney via the North Pole and performs well subsonically too (as AFAIAA it is essentially a jet engine with pre-coolers), so no sonic booms over land.

« Last Edit: 11/28/2012 10:35 am by flymetothemoon »

Offline grondilu

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1409 on: 11/28/2012 10:28 am »
Quote
it will be for aeronautics, as it will allow a return of a supersonic airliner.

Very sceptical about supersonic airliners. Their usage will always be limited since they are not allowed to fly over land (yes, even those supposedly silent designs from boeing).

Well, amazingly enough, the route from Europe to Australia does pretty much not fly over any land at all:

« Last Edit: 11/28/2012 10:35 am by grondilu »

Offline Rugoz

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1410 on: 11/28/2012 01:16 pm »

^

Well yeah I guess with mach 5 you can afford to fly a zigzag course around continents. Still its kind of a limiting factor. Also Brussels and Sydney are very close to the sea. But I stand corrected, I didn't know mach 5 is that fast  ;)

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1411 on: 11/28/2012 01:43 pm »
Quote
Those two statements kind of contradict each other 

I think what Bond meant was that he wants the government to endorse the project as in confirming its validity. That will give potential investors more confidence in the project.

Offline grondilu

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1412 on: 11/28/2012 02:04 pm »
Well yeah I guess with mach 5 you can afford to fly a zigzag course around continents.

On the animation it seemed quite geodesic to me.  But it's hard to tell.

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1413 on: 11/28/2012 02:16 pm »
I think that in the beginning this will be limited to special transports that are extremely urgent and military applications. The military probably wont have issues with permissions either.

Offline flymetothemoon

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1414 on: 11/28/2012 02:19 pm »
Well yeah I guess with mach 5 you can afford to fly a zigzag course around continents.
On the animation it seemed quite geodesic to me.  But it's hard to tell.

I think Rugoz was saying that you *could*, not that it was sensible. :)

Also you are only probably not too much more than 2 hours from any water in the U.S., so with subsequent long-distance Mach 5 flight it could still make sense to take an A2 from e.g. Wichita! (although again your hypersonic hubs are more likely to be on the coast)   :)
« Last Edit: 11/28/2012 02:19 pm by flymetothemoon »

Offline Turbomotive

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1415 on: 11/28/2012 02:28 pm »
Quote
Those two statements kind of contradict each other 

I think what Bond meant was that he wants the government to endorse the project as in confirming its validity. That will give potential investors more confidence in the project.
Specifically they want regulatory support as there are no regulations for spaceplanes right now.
"Men might as well project a voyage to the Moon as attempt to employ steam navigation against the stormy North Atlantic Ocean." - Dionysius Lardner, 1838

Offline Elmar Moelzer

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1416 on: 11/28/2012 02:32 pm »
Here is a link to another article citing todays press release:
http://www.theengineer.co.uk/news/sabre-engine-passes-milestone-tests/1014783.article

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1417 on: 11/28/2012 02:50 pm »

Very sceptical about supersonic airliners. Their usage will always be limited since they are not allowed to fly over land (yes, even those supposedly silent designs from boeing).

Well, amazingly enough, the route from Europe to Australia does pretty much not fly over any land at all:
{snip}

Japan (and China) to California is also mostly over water.

Offline Turbomotive

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1418 on: 11/28/2012 02:56 pm »
Here is a link to another article citing todays press release:
http://www.theengineer.co.uk/news/sabre-engine-passes-milestone-tests/1014783.article
The CEO's quote intrigues me:
Quote
the possibility for six to 15 times more space launches than are currently performed
By the entire industry? with how many Skylons? How get to "six to 15"?

"Men might as well project a voyage to the Moon as attempt to employ steam navigation against the stormy North Atlantic Ocean." - Dionysius Lardner, 1838

Offline flymetothemoon

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Re: The Reaction Engines Skylon Master Thread
« Reply #1419 on: 11/28/2012 03:27 pm »
the possibility for six to 15 times more space launches than are currently performed***

By the entire industry? with how many Skylons? How get to "six to 15"?

***Marketing speak alert

I think his statement suffers from being meaningless  ;)
« Last Edit: 11/28/2012 03:34 pm by flymetothemoon »

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