Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD  (Read 493845 times)

Offline ugordan

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SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« on: 03/14/2011 09:32 AM »
This is the Discussion thread for the F9 v1.1/SES-8 Launch

RESOURCE HEADER:

Per L2: NET November 12.

Article:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2013/10/spacex-realign-falcon-9-missions/

For those who wish to follow this flow as closely as is viable (non-proprietary, etc.), join L2 and click this link:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32768.0 (dedicated for F9 v1.1 SES-8 mission)

Resources:

Other SES-8 Threads:
SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - November 25 - UPDATE THREAD
SCRUB: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - Nov. 25 - LAUNCH UPDATES
SCRUB: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - Nov. 28 - SECOND LAUNCH ATTEMPT UPDATES
SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - Dec. 3 - THIRD LAUNCH ATTEMPT UPDATES
SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - VIEWING (GOING TO) THE LAUNCH THREAD
SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - Let's Get Restarted In Here Party Thread

SpaceX GENERAL Forum Section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=45.0 - please use this for general questions NOT specific to this mission.

SpaceX MISSIONS Forum Section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=55.0 - this section is for everything specific to SpaceX missions.

SpaceX SES-8 General Thread:
You're in it!

SpaceX SES-8 Update Thread:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32783.0

SpaceX SES-8 Party Thread:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=33079.0

SpaceX SES-8 Viewing Thread (Going to the launch)
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=33075.0

SES-8 Spacecraft thread:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32990.0

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News Site Resources:

SpaceX News Articles from 2006 (Including numerous exclusive Elon interviews):
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=21862.0

SpaceX News Articles (Recent):
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/spacex/

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L2 Members:

L2 SpaceX Section - now a dedicated full section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=24469.0

One Stop Shop Update Area for L2 Level F9 v1.1/SES-8 Updates:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=32768.0

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PLEASE NOTE THAT WE FULLY EXPECT THE SITE TO BE VERY BUSY ON LAUNCH DAYS FOR SPACEX MISSIONS. WE WILL LIKELY RESTRICT IT TO FORUM MEMBERS ONLY - WITH NO ACCESS TO THE FORUM FOR GUESTS - WHEN THE SITE BECOMES TOO BUSY. READ THIS: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31697.0)

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As the Satellite 2011 conference kicked off in Washington, D.C., Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) and SES (Paris:SESG)(LuxX:SESG) today announced an agreement to launch an SES satellite using the Falcon 9 rocket.

SES is one of the largest satellite operators in the world, and the deal marks what will be the first geostationary satellite launch using SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket. The firm launch agreement with SpaceX also includes an option for a second SES launch. It supplements SES' existing multi-launch agreements with its traditional launch providers Arianespace and ILS.

"As a world-leading telecommunications satellite operator, SES is in a position to choose the very best. SES is known for their low tolerance to risk and cautious approach in evaluating suppliers," said Elon Musk, SpaceX CEO and Chief Technical Officer. "SpaceX has focused on building the most reliable, safe and affordable launch vehicles in the market today. The SES deal shows that even the most conservative commercial or government customers can have confidence flying their satellites on the Falcon 9 rocket."

States Romain Bausch, President and CEO of SES: "Access to space is of utmost importance to SES, as we embark on our most ambitious fleet expansion programme yet. After extensive due diligence of SpaceX's technical and operational expertise, we feel comfortable entrusting SpaceX with one of our satellites, thereby encouraging diversity in the launch vehicle sector and fostering entrepreneurial spirit in the space industry. Falcon 9 ideally complements our roster of Ariane 5 and Proton boosters, as well as our framework launch understanding with Sea Launch. We look forward to a successful collaboration with SpaceX on the SES-8 mission and beyond."

The SES-8 satellite is scheduled to launch in the first quarter of 2013 from SpaceX's Launch Complex 40 at the Air Force Station at Cape Canaveral, Florida.

About SES-8


SES is launching SES-8 into the orbital position of 95 degrees East to respond to the strong demand for additional direct to home (DTH) capacity in Asia. SES-8, currently under construction with Orbital Sciences Corporation (NYSE: ORB), is a medium-sized communications satellite focused on South Asia (India) and Indo-China (Thailand, Vietnam, Laos) to support existing DTH customers with back-up and growth transponder capacity. SES-8 will be co-positioned with NSS-6 at the orbital slot of 95 degrees East, which is a cornerstone of the SES strategy in Asia and also supports key customers in the Middle East, Afghanistan, Australia, Papua New Guinea, and Korea.


http://www.euroinvestor.co.uk/news/story.aspx?id=11652715&bw=20110314005668
« Last Edit: 08/08/2017 09:55 PM by gongora »

Online Chris Bergin

Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #1 on: 03/14/2011 11:48 AM »
It's a SpaceX press release, sent out several hours afterwards to the media.

Oh goody.

Offline tigerade

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #2 on: 03/14/2011 12:23 PM »
Wow, another launch.  How is SpaceX going to do this many launches in the next 4-5 years?

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #3 on: 03/14/2011 01:31 PM »
Wow, another launch.  How is SpaceX going to do this many launches in the next 4-5 years?

So long as they get their pad processes right, it should be doable.  Remember, more than half will be from VAFB, so there won't be so much of a rush after all.  By my (admittedly off-hand) calculations, this year will see four launches from SLC-40.  CY2012 should see no more than six and CY13 onwards no more than eight per year (and could go as low as four).  Can SpaceX manage one launch every six weeks?
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Offline apace

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #4 on: 03/14/2011 01:57 PM »
How they get the 3.2t satellite to 95 degrees East GEO?!

Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #5 on: 03/14/2011 02:13 PM »
By launching it?

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #6 on: 03/14/2011 02:18 PM »
Wow, another launch.  How is SpaceX going to do this many launches in the next 4-5 years?

Their plan includes sending 50 Merlin engines to the launch site this year and 80 in 2013.  (*Target date indicates hardware arrival at launch site) It boggles the mind, even before considering that some of these will be Merlin 1d's, which have yet to complete development.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline SpacexULA

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #7 on: 03/14/2011 02:55 PM »
Their plan includes sending 50 Merlin engines to the launch site this year and 80 in 2013.  (*Target date indicates hardware arrival at launch site) It boggles the mind, even before considering that some of these will be Merlin 1d's, which have yet to complete development.

Like everything else, we don't know where Merlin 1D is in development.

Remember they kept the Merlin Vac Development really under wraps till they showed it doing it's 1st firing.  Same might be true of Merlin 1D.
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Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #8 on: 03/14/2011 03:13 PM »
How they get the 3.2t satellite to 95 degrees East GEO?!

Mr. Musk has said that the current block-I Falcon-9 should be able to launch 4t to GEO, 3t through TLI and 2t to Mars.  I might be wrong, but generally GEO payloads are capable of performing their own plane change manoeuvres, the LV only has to get them into GTO.
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Offline apace

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #9 on: 03/14/2011 03:15 PM »
How they get the 3.2t satellite to 95 degrees East GEO?!

Mr. Musk has said that the current block-I Falcon-9 should be able to launch 4t to GEO, 3t through TLI and 2t to Mars.  I might be wrong, but generally GEO payloads are capable of performing their own plane change manoeuvres, the LV only has to get them into GTO.

Thanks :-)

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #10 on: 03/14/2011 04:36 PM »
I might be wrong, but generally GEO payloads are capable of performing their own plane change manoeuvres, the LV only has to get them into GTO.

It is worth noting that Atlas/Centaur launches often do part of the plane change for the payload. Any extra US performance can be applied towards the plane change.
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Offline Danderman

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #11 on: 03/14/2011 05:11 PM »
The industry standard is to launch satellites to GTO with a difference between the GTO orbit and GEO being 1500 m/s delta-V. That delta-V difference can be inclination change or velocity or both.

Since the Block 1 Falcon 9 does not put anywhere close to the nominal 10 tons into LEO, it is therefore impossible for it to inject 4 tons into GSO, as mentioned in the above quote. What may be possible is to put the 4 tons into GTO. However, someone here did the calculations and determined that 2.5 tons to GTO is the probable limit for a Block 1 F9.




Offline Danderman

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #12 on: 03/14/2011 05:11 PM »
I might be wrong, but generally GEO payloads are capable of performing their own plane change manoeuvres, the LV only has to get them into GTO.

It is worth noting that Atlas/Centaur launches often do part of the plane change for the payload. Any extra US performance can be applied towards the plane change.
Its not a plane change, its an inclination change.

Offline Danderman

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #13 on: 03/14/2011 05:18 PM »
[Vent \on]

Elon and SpaceX have done a wonderful job in putting payloads into orbit from a clean slate start. I got that. What I am not happy about is that SpaceX starts off with fairly incredible performance claims for its new systems, followed by a later disclosure that the stated performance is for some future variant.

At the same time, Elon is basically leapfrogging his development programs, so that Falcon 1, after a couple of successes, is basically discarded, and F9 is likely to be quickly superseded by the Heavy, followed by the single engine variant. What happens in all that leapfrogging is that the advanced variants never come to pass, so the incredible performance claimed earlier is never actually achieved. This means that commercial customers really can't depend on the claimed parameters of any one system - so a customer who buys an F9 launch may have to eventually fly on Falcon F9 Heavy.

This is not a good practice in the commercial realm, despite the success of IBM earlier in generating similar FUD, it is eventually self-defeating behavior.

[vent \off]

Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #14 on: 03/14/2011 05:23 PM »
So you're saying SES - which apparently is very conservative - bought into this performance hype, being oblivious F9 Block 2 could never meet those numbers?

Online Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #15 on: 03/14/2011 05:29 PM »
[Vent \on]

Elon and SpaceX have done a wonderful job in putting payloads into orbit from a clean slate start. I got that. What I am not happy about is that SpaceX starts off with fairly incredible performance claims for its new systems, followed by a later disclosure that the stated performance is for some future variant.

At the same time, Elon is basically leapfrogging his development programs, so that Falcon 1, after a couple of successes, is basically discarded, and F9 is likely to be quickly superseded by the Heavy, followed by the single engine variant. What happens in all that leapfrogging is that the advanced variants never come to pass, so the incredible performance claimed earlier is never actually achieved. This means that commercial customers really can't depend on the claimed parameters of any one system - so a customer who buys an F9 launch may have to eventually fly on Falcon F9 Heavy.

This is not a good practice in the commercial realm, despite the success of IBM earlier in generating similar FUD, it is eventually self-defeating behavior.

[vent \off]
SpaceX is rapidly maturing in its true understanding of just what it takes to make money, what kind of performance is needed, what launch vehicles are or are not profitable, etc.  They need to do this to survive.

Predicted performance figures are often not reached right away, and it shouldn't (and wasn't, if you read some of the older posts around here) be surprising.

EDIT:Not that I'm saying SpaceX smells like roses here, just that it makes a lot of sense from a business stand-point.
« Last Edit: 03/14/2011 06:01 PM by Robotbeat »
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Offline Danderman

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #16 on: 03/14/2011 05:59 PM »
So you're saying SES - which apparently is very conservative - bought into this performance hype, being oblivious F9 Block 2 could never meet those numbers?

Elon probably guaranteed some amount of performance, no matte what. Whether that performance comes from F9, F9 Block 2, F9 with Merlin 2, or Falcon Heavy is another story.

Offline Danderman

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #17 on: 03/14/2011 06:01 PM »
Predicted performance figures are often not reached right away, and it shouldn't (and wasn't, if you read some of the older posts around here) be surprising.

No one is suggesting that performance figures should be met right away. But, they should be met Some Day. In the case of SpaceX, specific performance values are never met, they are "leapfrogged".

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #18 on: 03/14/2011 06:06 PM »
Predicted performance figures are often not reached right away, and it shouldn't (and wasn't, if you read some of the older posts around here) be surprising.

No one is suggesting that performance figures should be met right away. But, they should be met Some Day. In the case of SpaceX, specific performance values are never met, they are "leapfrogged".
RS-68 never reached its predicted performance, and (according to Downix) even the upgraded RS-68A doesn't (or, rather, won't) achieve that level of performance.

SpaceX doesn't have a choice. They were over-optimistic, and they have to deal with that.
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Offline Jason1701

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.1 - SES-8 - DISCUSSION THREAD
« Reply #19 on: 03/14/2011 07:00 PM »
the Block 1 Falcon 9 does not put anywhere close to the nominal 10 tons into LEO

How do you know this? What is its capacity in reality?

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