Author Topic: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 3)  (Read 566602 times)

Offline Nate_Trost

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 3)
« Reply #1740 on: 06/15/2011 03:17 pm »
Or, since we don't know their costs, they low-balled to get a prestigious contract.

Offline mr. mark

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 3)
« Reply #1741 on: 06/15/2011 03:21 pm »
Not sure but is Rocket City using Falcons (Falcon 1) for payload delivery? not sure I caught any previous posts on this?
« Last Edit: 06/15/2011 03:22 pm by mr. mark »

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 3)
« Reply #1742 on: 06/15/2011 03:30 pm »
They are doing secondary payloads, by the look of it. Meaning just about any launcher (most likely Falcon 9 or Falcon Heavy if using SpaceX).
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline baldusi

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 3)
« Reply #1743 on: 06/15/2011 03:32 pm »
As to how much "larger" they would be - still anyone's guess. This still doesn't change the fact a 69 meter F9 won't fit in the current hangar and the notional schedule of Q1 2013 certainly implies it would fly from there.

They had proposed to make the new hangar at 90 degrees of the tracks, so they could move the Falcon Heavy in the correct orientation for the pad's exhaust trench. I guess that hangar will be sized to accommodate at least a Falcon Heavy. If made right, it should allow to process at least three launchers.

Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 3)
« Reply #1744 on: 06/15/2011 03:37 pm »
I didn't say Q1 2013 for no reason. Any upgrade to SLC-40 would be done after SLC-4E at VAFB is done, in 2013 as per Musk himself. Hence, they would not have any place to put the full length upgraded F9 core for a launch in March.

Offline beancounter

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 3)
« Reply #1745 on: 06/16/2011 02:31 am »
Or, since we don't know their costs, they low-balled to get a prestigious contract.

Elon responded to the low price / low cost issue.  I therefore presume you are either speculating or have other evidence to present in which case I look forward to seeing?
Beancounter from DownUnder

Offline majormajor42

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 3)
« Reply #1746 on: 06/16/2011 04:55 am »
The SES article also mentions a larger fairing. SES will want to see the larger fairing demonstrated before their launch, from what I read. Not sure what dimensions they are talking about. Anybody know?

 The second part of the article talking about electric propulsion on satellites is interesting. Was not aware it is already being done. Will try to educate myself on what is currently already being done, as opposed to "advanced concepts" threads on what might be done in the future. I guess the advanced concept would be future HSF applications.
...water is life and it is out there, where we intend to go. I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man or machine on a body such as the Moon and harvest a cup of water for a human to drink or process into fuel for their craft.

Offline Jason1701

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 3)
« Reply #1747 on: 06/16/2011 11:25 am »
The SES article also mentions a larger fairing. SES will want to see the larger fairing demonstrated before their launch, from what I read. Not sure what dimensions they are talking about. Anybody know?

We discussed this a few weeks ago, not sure which thread. My idea was that it's a "larger fairing" than the Dragon fairing which flew on the first two flights. SES wants to see their standard 5m payload fairing demonstrated.

Offline Dave G

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 3)
« Reply #1748 on: 06/16/2011 12:02 pm »
Or, since we don't know their costs, they low-balled to get a prestigious contract.

http://www.spacex.com/updates.php

"these prices are not arbitrary, premised on capturing a dominant share of the market, or “teaser” rates meant to lure in an eager market only to be increased later. These prices are based on known costs and a demonstrated track record, and they exemplify the potential of America's commercial space industry."
...
"SpaceX has been profitable every year since 2007, despite dramatic employee growth and major infrastructure and operations investments. We have over 40 flights on manifest representing over $3 billion in revenues.

These are the objective facts, confirmed by external auditors. Moreover, SpaceX intends to make far more dramatic reductions in price in the long term when full launch vehicle reusability is achieved. We will not be satisfied with our progress until we have achieved this long sought goal of the space industry."
« Last Edit: 06/16/2011 12:04 pm by Dave G »

Offline Nate_Trost

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 3)
« Reply #1749 on: 06/16/2011 02:20 pm »
Are we supposed to be impressed they were profitable in 2007 and 2008 without successfully launching a single customer payload?

Is it impressive if they are profitable in 2011 without launching a single rocket?

We'll see if they're profitable when they are actually operating at some meaningful percentage of their planned launch rate.

Offline Lurker Steve

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 3)
« Reply #1750 on: 06/16/2011 02:55 pm »
The SES article also mentions a larger fairing. SES will want to see the larger fairing demonstrated before their launch, from what I read. Not sure what dimensions they are talking about. Anybody know?

We discussed this a few weeks ago, not sure which thread. My idea was that it's a "larger fairing" than the Dragon fairing which flew on the first two flights. SES wants to see their standard 5m payload fairing demonstrated.

The Dragon is a capsule mounted directly on top of the Falcon 9 rocket. NO FAIRING HAS EVER FLOWN ON THE FALCON 9.

If I was SES, I would want to see a successful flight of a Falcon 9 deploying someone else's commerical satellite before I risk my bird.

Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 3)
« Reply #1751 on: 06/16/2011 03:02 pm »
SES wants to see their standard 5m payload fairing demonstrated.

If I was SES, I would want to see a successful flight of a Falcon 9 deploying someone else's commerical satellite before I risk my bird.

Isn't that pretty much what Jason said as well? A 5m fairing won't fly empty when it's "demonstrated". The other important issue for GTO profiles is MVac restart which was demonstrated once and will be a couple more times on Dragon flights (Orbcomms).

Apart from engine upgrade, that I think leaves insertion accuracy as one of the bigger unknowns. I guess SES can live with that.
« Last Edit: 06/16/2011 03:02 pm by ugordan »

Offline Chris Bergin

This thread has been trimmed back from the point it started discussing the legal issue (SpaceX vs Fragola).

While most of the posts are probably ok, I'm not comfortable with members discussing a legal case on here, especially in the style of some posts.

This is my decision, because it's my site, as much as the "posters post comments of their own opinion" card is an often-used tool to allow crap to be posted on sites. Personally, I want this site's forum to work to higher standards.

No one got in touch, it is my decision after visiting this thread via a moderator report on one of the posts.

New SpaceX discussion thread shortly.
« Last Edit: 06/18/2011 11:07 pm by Chris Bergin »

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