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#260
by
sdsds
on 24 Jan, 2011 07:31
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Spock: "If I let go of a hammer on a planet that has a positive gravity, I need not see it fall to know that it has in fact fallen."
If USAF launches an NRO payload on a Delta-IV Heavy, I need not see the telemetry to know that it has in fact no chance of being damaged by gaseous H2 burn-off.
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#261
by
starsalor
on 24 Jan, 2011 08:47
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These are Hydrogen/Oxygen engines. The vehicle is NOT on fire !! This is normal.
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#262
by
ugordan
on 24 Jan, 2011 08:50
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The vehicle is NOT on fire !!
How would you describe the
situation at the CBC intertank areas then?
It sure as hell looked like fire to me.
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#263
by
DaveS
on 24 Jan, 2011 09:01
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The vehicle is NOT on fire !!
How would you describe the situation at the CBC intertank areas then?
It sure as hell looked like fire to me.
It's just a bit of trapped GH2. The airflow took care of it in no-time at all.
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#264
by
ugordan
on 24 Jan, 2011 09:07
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It's just a bit of trapped GH2. The airflow took care of it in no-time at all.
Take a look at the highlights video again and tell me you really believe it's trapped GH2. Burning with a thick black smoke.
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#265
by
DaveS
on 24 Jan, 2011 09:13
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It's just a bit of trapped GH2. The airflow took care of it in no-time at all.
Take a look at the highlights video again and tell me you really believe it's trapped GH2. Burning with a thick black smoke.
The black color comes from the soot. The soot generation comes from burning insulation. The Delta IV
is designed from the outset to deal with this.
Why don't you complain and worry about similar a phenonoma occuring on the Saturn V? There the S-1C exhaust crawled up the entire length of the stage!
Just like the Delta IV, the Saturn V was designed to handle it safely.
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#266
by
ugordan
on 24 Jan, 2011 09:16
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The black color comes from the soot. The soot generation comes from burning insulation. The Delta IV is designed from the outset to deal with this.
Why don't you complain and worry about similar a phenonoma occuring on the Saturn V?
<emphasis mine>
I'm not complaining about anything. You said the vehicle's
wasn't on fire and now you back out of that by saying the insulation
is burning. Insulation
on the vehicle. Hence the vehicle
is on fire. For a short period.
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#267
by
DaveS
on 24 Jan, 2011 09:36
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The black color comes from the soot. The soot generation comes from burning insulation. The Delta IV is designed from the outset to deal with this.
Why don't you complain and worry about similar a phenonoma occuring on the Saturn V?
<emphasis mine>
I'm not complaining about anything. You said the vehicle's wasn't on fire and now you back out of that by saying the insulation is burning. Insulation on the vehicle. Hence the vehicle is on fire. For a short period.
I don't see what the big deal is about anyway. If this is a problem, ULA will have a fix in place before the next launch.
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#268
by
Space Invaders
on 24 Jan, 2011 10:24
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To what extent can we know that this is not a new case of "normalisation of deviance", this time with Delta IV?
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#269
by
Jim
on 24 Jan, 2011 11:11
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To what extent can we know that this is not a new case of "normalisation of deviance", this time with Delta IV?
Because there is no issue. The vehicle was designed with this condition in mind.
Go watch the FRF of the first vehicle.
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#270
by
gospacex
on 24 Jan, 2011 13:25
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To what extent can we know that this is not a new case of "normalisation of deviance", this time with Delta IV?
Because there is no issue. The vehicle was designed with this condition in mind.
Go watch the FRF of the first vehicle.
I have the video of maiden DIVH and it definitely did not burn. It was only charred.
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#271
by
gospacex
on 24 Jan, 2011 13:27
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The black color comes from the soot. The soot generation comes from burning insulation. The Delta IV is designed from the outset to deal with this.
Why don't you complain and worry about similar a phenonoma occuring on the Saturn V?
<emphasis mine>
I'm not complaining about anything. You said the vehicle's wasn't on fire and now you back out of that by saying the insulation is burning. Insulation on the vehicle. Hence the vehicle is on fire. For a short period.
It wasn't insulation. All fires were on formerly-white intertank areas.
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#272
by
kevin-rf
on 24 Jan, 2011 13:35
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Because there is no issue. The vehicle was designed with this condition in mind.
I am reminded of this quote from Antares in the Delta IV Q&A thread
They actually had a significant redesign of the vents after Heavy Demo to prevent ingestion of free H2 and combustion products.
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#273
by
edkyle99
on 24 Jan, 2011 14:56
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Delta 4 Heavy isn't unique. If memory serves, Minuteman missiles exit their silos on fire too.
I think its pretty neat to see a big fire-breathing rocket lift off *on-fire* while rising out of a fireball - and I am *not* a pyromaniac.
- Ed Kyle
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#274
by
Lee Jay
on 24 Jan, 2011 15:00
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...and I am *not* a pyromaniac.
- Ed Kyle
Denial is the first sign, you know.
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#275
by
Nick L.
on 24 Jan, 2011 15:03
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The black color comes from the soot. The soot generation comes from burning insulation. The Delta IV is designed from the outset to deal with this.
Why don't you complain and worry about similar a phenonoma occuring on the Saturn V?
<emphasis mine>
I'm not complaining about anything. You said the vehicle's wasn't on fire and now you back out of that by saying the insulation is burning. Insulation on the vehicle. Hence the vehicle is on fire. For a short period.
It wasn't insulation. All fires were on formerly-white intertank areas.
The intertank areas have insulation I think, just not foam (I think it's cork - same as around the thrust structure at the bottom).
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#276
by
Lars_J
on 24 Jan, 2011 15:49
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These are Hydrogen/Oxygen engines. The vehicle is NOT on fire !! This is normal.
It may be relatively normal for the Delta IV, but it does not apply to all LV's with ground started Hydrogen/Oxygen engines.
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#277
by
iamlucky13
on 24 Jan, 2011 18:33
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The last couple pages seem to be focused on whether or not the ignition flare was acceptable.
How about a less contentious question:
Is the scale of the flare comparable to past launches?
My impression from watching a few videos of both Heavy and Medium configurations to compare to this launch is that the flare-up was larger than typical.
The pad and flame trench is not identical at SLC-6 to SLC-37, correct?
BTW, someone has added a fantastic image of this launch to the wikipedia article on SLC-6. I'm sure it's in other galleries, too, but I like it enough to single it out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:First_Delta_IV_Heavy_launch_from_SLC-6_at_Vandenberg_AFB.jpgI really like the translucent flame that hydrogen makes. I might make myself a print of that shot.
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#278
by
MrEarl
on 24 Jan, 2011 18:40
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These are Hydrogen/Oxygen engines. The vehicle is NOT on fire !! This is normal.
It may be relatively normal for the Delta IV, but it does not apply to all LV's with ground started Hydrogen/Oxygen engines.
The Delta IV Heavy has been touted as a LV for the Boeing and Orion spacecrafts. I don't think I'd want to be on a vehical that has burning isulation no matter how "Normal" it is.
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#279
by
Downix
on 24 Jan, 2011 18:42
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These are Hydrogen/Oxygen engines. The vehicle is NOT on fire !! This is normal.
It may be relatively normal for the Delta IV, but it does not apply to all LV's with ground started Hydrogen/Oxygen engines.
The Delta IV Heavy has been touted as a LV for the Boeing and Orion spacecrafts. I don't think I'd want to be on a vehical that has burning isulation no matter how "Normal" it is.
If you read the document ULA published on the changes needed for operating Delta IV for manned flight, addressing this is in there.
