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#1340
by
solaria
on 18 Jul, 2011 11:44
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Have heard it will come from the south onto runway 33.
They are likely to waive the first opportunity, in order to land in daylight after an extra orbit around 7am.
The badging station, just on the right after the entrance to the KSCVC car park, was suggested as a good spot to watch it from. There is a good size parking lot by the badging station too.
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#1341
by
Jim
on 18 Jul, 2011 12:13
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It is a "night" landing. Not worth the trip
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#1342
by
STS-85
on 18 Jul, 2011 12:29
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I think it's a personal choice -
if you're finances are tight, no it's not worth it to go.
If you can afford to go, Yes the first chance is a night landing, but if they waive it off it's a daylight landing on the 2nd chance.
Hearing the sonic booms is unique and exhilirating - I flew down just to hear them on STS-93 even though it was the dead of night and no chance of hearing.
And seeing STS-122 gliding in about 4 min before touchdown, knowing only minutes before they'd been in the searing heat of re-entry and in just a few minutes would be touching down? Amazing.
If you're not strapped for cash, GO! This is the last ever chance for anything like this!
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#1343
by
shuttlefanatic
on 18 Jul, 2011 12:34
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They are likely to waive the first opportunity, in order to land in daylight after an extra orbit around 7am.
Is your source credible?
Things may have changed, but the latest (July 14) Landing Support Officer notes on L2 state that they are not going to skip the first opportunity for lighting conditions.
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#1344
by
Hog
on 18 Jul, 2011 12:45
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Here is the Sun data for 05:57 hrs EDT for July 21 2011's landing.
Daily events for July 21
Event Time Altitude Azimuth
Astronomical twilight begins: 05:07 -18.0° 53°
Nautical twilight begins: 05:40 -12.0° 58°
Civil twilight begins: 06:12 -6.0° 63°
Sunrise: 06:38 -0.8° 66°
Maximum altitude: 13:29 81.9° 180°
Sunset: 20:19 -0.8° 294°
Civil twilight ends: 20:45 -6.0° 297°
Nautical twilight ends: 21:17 -12.0° 301°
Astronomical twilight ends: 21:50 -18.0° 306°
Position at selected time
Altitude -8.9°
Azimuth 60.8°
Right ascension 8h 1m 42s
Declination 20° 29' 46"
Range (AU) 1.0161136
Constellation Cancer
Numbers are for the vistors center at KSC.
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#1345
by
manlymatt83
on 18 Jul, 2011 12:51
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Where do you recommend going? Space View Park?
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#1346
by
mike robel
on 18 Jul, 2011 13:18
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You would have to check the proposed landing track. I have had good views from Cocoa Beach and Cape Canaveral.
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#1347
by
leetdan
on 18 Jul, 2011 15:00
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Planning on trying to get as much out of the landing as possible since I'll be in Orlando that day anyway... Any suggestions on best (less poor) spotting locations?
...
I realize it's hard to get any decent view at all, especially considering the landing facility itself being sadly off limits, but it should be possible to get under that ground track somewhere quite close, shouldn't it?
Runway 15 is probably better for viewing. Spaceview Park or other sites along the Indian River would probably be good. (See ---http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av6Ot6eTWsc). There is also this video (---http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlfkBbUnjlU) from the intersection of SR 402 and SR 3 - you'll want to probably verify road access out there - you may have to approach from Haulover Canal.
If they land on 15, and if the lighting is decent, this is a great spot:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=28.643114,-80.747441&spn=0.003258,0.00457&t=h&z=18
It gives approximately the same view as in the 2nd video that shuttlefanatic posted, but it's west of the flight path, instead of east.
What worries me is
http://www.fws.gov/merrittisland/LaunchClosure.html, which says the whole area would be closed off. Does this mean you'd need to be there over an hour ahead of time?
Still leaning toward Spaceview at this point.
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#1348
by
STS-85
on 18 Jul, 2011 15:40
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First, I obviously meant re: STS-93 that I went down to hear the sonic booms even though there was no chance of SEEING it (11:20pm landing) LOL proofreading would help.
Somewhere else on here I heard they will not bypass a landing chance (like they did on STS-85) just to get a daylight one.
Perhaps, not sure, but if there's just enough light in the sky you might see it when it's high above, like 100,000 feet about 7min from touchdown as they'll be getting light from the sun I'd think up there.
Titusville will get you the sonic booms regardless of direction of landing, and if they come in with daylight you can see it dropping like a brick as they come around the HAC.
When I went there (living in Florida at the time) for STS-122, they were targeting runway 33 so I parked just past the Indian River bridge on Route 528 in Cocoa. Would've been perfect for seeing the turn around the HAC to line up.. but they switched to Runway 15 and so just saw it flying overhead. Still, SPECTACULAR and AMAZING sight. Could easily make out details with naked eye, but had binoculars so could see lots. But that was like 9:something in the morning.
Hope you can go though and catch something, it's the last one afterall.
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#1349
by
jcopella
on 18 Jul, 2011 15:42
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Planning on trying to get as much out of the landing as possible since I'll be in Orlando that day anyway... Any suggestions on best (less poor) spotting locations?
...
I realize it's hard to get any decent view at all, especially considering the landing facility itself being sadly off limits, but it should be possible to get under that ground track somewhere quite close, shouldn't it?
Runway 15 is probably better for viewing. Spaceview Park or other sites along the Indian River would probably be good. (See ---http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av6Ot6eTWsc). There is also this video (---http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlfkBbUnjlU) from the intersection of SR 402 and SR 3 - you'll want to probably verify road access out there - you may have to approach from Haulover Canal.
If they land on 15, and if the lighting is decent, this is a great spot:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=28.643114,-80.747441&spn=0.003258,0.00457&t=h&z=18
It gives approximately the same view as in the 2nd video that shuttlefanatic posted, but it's west of the flight path, instead of east.
What worries me is http://www.fws.gov/merrittisland/LaunchClosure.html, which says the whole area would be closed off. Does this mean you'd need to be there over an hour ahead of time?
Still leaning toward Spaceview at this point.
I observed STS-124 (June 2008) land from that spot. Details here:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=13458.msg291020#msg291020I recall getting there about 45 min (or less) before touchdown. I left my home in downtown Orlando when they gave the go for the de-orbit burn, and I doubt I could've possibly gotten there any earlier than that. That said, if the website says they close 1 hr before, I'd believe them.
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#1350
by
MadameConcorde
on 18 Jul, 2011 16:07
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Eerie live images of the Station/Shuttle combo - something we will never be able to see again.
Replays yes - but live no more.
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#1351
by
janmb
on 18 Jul, 2011 17:41
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What worries me is http://www.fws.gov/merrittisland/LaunchClosure.html, which says the whole area would be closed off. Does this mean you'd need to be there over an hour ahead of time?
Still leaning toward Spaceview at this point.
Seems it's heading that direction for my part as well, pending which runway they will eventually turn out to be landing on.
I have a flight back to europe the same day so can't risk getting stuck behind a blocked road on Merrit Island
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#1352
by
jcopella
on 18 Jul, 2011 18:15
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It's up to you guys, but if it were me, if I were already planning to go as far as SpaceView Park, and if they select runway 15, I'd press on across the 402/Max Brewer Causeway and try to get to that little weather station, or maybe all the way to the SR3/Kennedy Parkway intersection, if you can get that far before finding a roadblock or KSC patrol car. The view certainly won't be any worse than at SV Park. Some elevation for your line of sight will help (climb on the roof of your car/truck/van?) -- this is one of the reasons I like that little weather station.
This is all assuming the lighting will work in your favor, which I'm not at all sure of -- other folks have posted sunrise/twilight times that you'll have to take into account.
From having watched many landings, as an employee from LC-39 grounds, and as a civilian, from various locations, some tips:
1. No matter where you watch from, bring binoculars.
2. No matter what, you won't be able to see much from SpaceView Park -- the orbiter will appear quite small from that distance. And if it lands on 33, I'm not sure you'd be able to see it at all from there with the unaided eye. Maybe someone else can comment on that -- I've never seen a landing on 33 from the Titusville area. The KSC VC is probably your best bet if they select 33.
3. Unless you or someone near to you gets lucky and spots it overhead (and you are lucky enough to find it after trying and failing to follow their excited hand gestures to see the fast moving little white dot they are pointing at), the orbiter is generally very hard to see until it is quite close, relatively low, and nearly rolling out of the HAC to align with the runway. When you finally pick it up visually you will be shocked that seconds before it was at 50,000 ft and nearly invisible.
4. No matter where you watch from, you will not see touchdown. The last part of the approach will be obscured by the treeline. If you see the gear come down, consider yourself very lucky.
5. The whole event is over very quickly.
6. The sonic booms are unbelievably loud.
7. The traffic for KSC landings is historically much, much lighter than for launches. It may be a bit different since this is the last flight of the program, but due to the early hour, I would not expect significant traffic delays getting out of Titusville and back to Orlando.
8. To me the big variables are lighting (due to the early hour) and the runway selection.
FYI, FWIW, YMMV.
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#1353
by
JoeC
on 18 Jul, 2011 18:49
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It's up to you guys, but if it were me, if I were already planning to go as far as SpaceView Park, and if they select runway 15, I'd press on across the 402/Max Brewer Causeway and try to get to that little weather station, or maybe all the way to the SR3/Kennedy Parkway intersection...
I was planning to drive to at least Parrish Park if possible, with the intention of continuing on Max Brewer until I encountered a closed gate or a stern looking individual near a vehicle with flashing lights or something to that effect. In any case, now I'm kind of curious as to where along Max Brewer this weather station is?
Thanks for all the great info!
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#1354
by
jcopella
on 18 Jul, 2011 18:56
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It's up to you guys, but if it were me, if I were already planning to go as far as SpaceView Park, and if they select runway 15, I'd press on across the 402/Max Brewer Causeway and try to get to that little weather station, or maybe all the way to the SR3/Kennedy Parkway intersection...
I was planning to drive to at least Parrish Park if possible, with the intention of continuing on Max Brewer until I encountered a closed gate or a stern looking individual near a vehicle with flashing lights or something to that effect. In any case, now I'm kind of curious as to where along Max Brewer this weather station is?
Thanks for all the great info!
No problem.
The location I'm referring to is here:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=28.643114,-80.747441&spn=0.003258,0.00457&t=h&z=18I'm not certain it's a weather station -- it's some type of remote monitoring facility, but for what (and who owns it), I'm not exactly sure.
Btw, for emphasis, so I don't ruin someone's morning: only go there if they land on runway
15. If they choose 33 you should be somewhere else entirely, probably the KSC Visitor's Center.
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#1355
by
STS-134
on 18 Jul, 2011 19:16
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Anyone think there's any chance of seeing a landing at Edwards AFB, if the weather at KSC isn't good? It looks like an 80% chance of good weather at KSC for Thursday morning though, and since the planned landing is at 5:56am at KSC, it would probably land at Edwards in the dark if it did get redirected there. The other problem is that I live 6 hours from Edwards, which is a long way to drive to possibly watch nothing.
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#1356
by
JoeC
on 18 Jul, 2011 19:18
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Perfect, thanks, jcopella. Having never driven down that way before I was primarily curious as to whether I should take the east/west leg or continue northeast on Max Brewer when I arrived at the fork (assuming I'm allowed to make it that far).
Thanks again!
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#1357
by
shuttlefanatic
on 18 Jul, 2011 20:29
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Anyone think there's any chance of seeing a landing at Edwards AFB, if the weather at KSC isn't good? It looks like an 80% chance of good weather at KSC for Thursday morning though, and since the planned landing is at 5:56am at KSC, it would probably land at Edwards in the dark if it did get redirected there. The other problem is that I live 6 hours from Edwards, which is a long way to drive to possibly watch nothing.
Given the current forecast, I believe Atlantis will be on the ground at KSC Thursday. I don't believe Edwards is even being called up on Thursday, so unless there's a significant change in the forecast, I don't see much to plan for.
If I think there's any chance of an Edwards landing, I'll 1) post here in advance and 2) be heading out there myself. (I'm ~3 hours away).
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#1358
by
Prober
on 19 Jul, 2011 02:59
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Anyone think there's any chance of seeing a landing at Edwards AFB, if the weather at KSC isn't good? It looks like an 80% chance of good weather at KSC for Thursday morning though, and since the planned landing is at 5:56am at KSC, it would probably land at Edwards in the dark if it did get redirected there. The other problem is that I live 6 hours from Edwards, which is a long way to drive to possibly watch nothing.
Given the current forecast, I believe Atlantis will be on the ground at KSC Thursday. I don't believe Edwards is even being called up on Thursday, so unless there's a significant change in the forecast, I don't see much to plan for.
If I think there's any chance of an Edwards landing, I'll 1) post here in advance and 2) be heading out there myself. (I'm ~3 hours away).
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/smg/smgwx.htm it might come down to hours.
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#1359
by
Orbital Debris
on 19 Jul, 2011 04:06
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Shuttlefanatic, I'd be interested in a midnight run from Vegas. The usual problem is I'm about 4 hours out from EAFB, and they don't make the call until the burn. If there was even a chance, though, I could preposition, and sleep in the back of the car! Just being there and hearing the boom would be enough. It would be worth it to be late for work once!
Things may have changed, but the latest (July 14) Landing Support Officer notes on L2 state that they are not going to skip the first opportunity for lighting conditions.
