SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates

[Jim]

C2 can be done with an unmanned ISS. 

No, it can't.  There is no one onboard to monitor and man the CUCU, which can abort the rendezvous

[SpacexULA]

SpaceX has in the past said that Dragon Lab will be able to loiter for up to 2 years in orbit.

Since this vehicle will have solar panels would it be possible for the Dragon to complete the COTS 2 Milestone and loiter in orbit until such time as docking is again possible?

[ugordan]

Since this vehicle will have solar panels would it be possible for the Dragon to complete the COTS 2 Milestone and loiter in orbit until such time as docking is again possible?

Read what Jim said just now.

[Lars_J]

According to Jorge, the newest Soyuz up there should be good until the first days of January. It would make no sense to leave the station unmanned until you really had to.

[mmeijeri]

Read what Jim said just now.

How about loitering in a lower orbit and doing the rendez-vous later?

[SpacexULA]

Since this vehicle will have solar panels would it be possible for the Dragon to complete the COTS 2 Milestone and loiter in orbit until such time as docking is again possible?

Read what Jim said just now.

Sorry I think I am getting ready to look illiterate, but what does what Jim said have to do with the idea of COTS2/3 launching in Nov/Dec and loitering in orbital till mid 2012 if the station is abandoned?

I am sure either current dragon doesn't have the battery power, or there is a safety issue with circulating air for 6 months before ISS birthing, but just curious.

[ugordan]

How about loitering in a lower orbit and doing the rendez-vous later?

What would you achieve with this, apart from burning prop and having to maintain the orbit in the same plane as ISS (nodal regression)?

[mmeijeri]

What would you achieve with this, apart from burning prop and having to maintain the orbit in the same plane as ISS (nodal regression)?

I don't know, I was just wondering about the technical issues. I do wonder if SpaceX would like to launch as soon as possible so they can say "hey, we're ready, we're waiting for NASA" and "if you guys had funded COTS-D we'd have been well on our way towards a manned option too".

[SpacexULA]

How about loitering in a lower orbit and doing the rendez-vous later?

What would you achieve with this, apart from burning prop and having to maintain the orbit in the same plane as ISS (nodal regression)?

-If there is a failure during COTS 2 it allows them to fix what ever the issue was before the next launch without further delaying logistics.

-Allows Dragon to provide logistics as soon as ISS is ready, without waiting for launch window/availability of Falcon 9.

-Allows SpaceX to prove out their ability to loiter for long periods of time.

-Allows SpaceX to get the COTS 2 revenue sooner.

[ugordan]

-If there is a failure during COTS 2 it allows them to fix what ever the issue was before the next launch without further delaying logistics.

Thas was valid even before the Progress failure and yet that option wasn't opted for even then by NASA. Any schedule shift to the right now, caused by station being unmanned will also be followed by non-consumption of station consumables so the "we need to get CRS flying by end of 2012" starts to lose significance because... well, it already is demanned long before then.

-Allows Dragon to provide logistics as soon as ISS is ready, without waiting for launch window/availability of Falcon 9.

No, it doesn't because C2/C3 would only carry small symbolic cargo mass of non-critical items.

[Prober]

You're not getting what I'm asking. What is the rush to perform a separate C2 all of a sudden if the station is unmanned?

Ain't gonna happen.

What rush?  November + December is when SpaceX is planned to do C2 and C3.

The answer is simple complete the Cots 2 program, and launch the Satellites SpaceX wishes to do.  Cots 3 can be done with the flight after.   This is what was scheduled and will allow getting another launch under SpaceX’s belt.

[ugordan]

The answer is simple complete the Cots 2 program, and launch the Satellites SpaceX wishes to do.  Cots 3 can be done with the flight after.

Yes, SpaceX would be crazy to miss out on the opportunity to spend money on 2 Dragon launches instead of 1 in order to complete the COTS program...

[Prober]

The answer is simple complete the Cots 2 program, and launch the Satellites SpaceX wishes to do.  Cots 3 can be done with the flight after.

Yes, SpaceX would be crazy to miss out on the opportunity to spend money on 2 Dragon launches instead of 1 in order to complete the COTS program...

Experience is the best PR.

[Antares]

A major driver for combining them, even if the Station were demanned, is to save the expense of a second Falcon.  Interesting point: I was about to type "and a second Dragon," but there's nothing in the COTS SAA that prevents SpaceX from reusing the first Dragon.  Much has been made about needing new Dragons for each CRS flight, but they could reuse a Dragon to accomplish the COTS flights if they wanted to or if they could (i.e. if they are truly reusable).

And, wholeheartedly agree that "Experience is the best PR."  While SpaceX has 4 in a row now and keeps preening for the cameras, ULA is out there with 90-some Atlases in a row and a huge number of Deltas.

[Jorge]

C2 can be done with an unmanned ISS. 

No, it can't.  There is no one onboard to monitor and man the CUCU, which can abort the rendezvous

And the C2 objectives include a test of crew commanding via the CCP/CUCU.

[RocketEconomist327]

<snip>

And, wholeheartedly agree that "Experience is the best PR."  While SpaceX has 4 in a row now and keeps preening for the cameras, ULA is out there with 90-some Atlas' in a row and a huge number of Deltas.

+ frakking 1

VR
RE327

[Lars_J]

And, wholeheartedly agree that "Experience is the best PR."  While SpaceX has 4 in a row now and keeps preening for the cameras, ULA is out there with 90-some Atlases in a row and a huge number of Deltas.

What is it with this undercurrent of anger/frustration at SpaceX PR? (which is far better than before) ULA doesn't preen for the cameras because they don't have to. They are sitting on a very generous DoD contract, and they'll have their business whether or not COTS, CRS, and ISS succeed or fail. They are not in the same boat.

[Carl G]

Locked. People derailing all the time.

New thread:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=26616.0