SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates

[go4mars]

Why would it need to be cleaned and the char removed if it's meant to reusable and passes safety checks.
Does a car have to be necessarily washed before every drive?

I meant clean out the sea water if PICA-X acts like a sponge (because of weight).

[cambrianera]

PICA is porous, but not absorbent.
Phenolic resin means you can wash it and dry it in your factory, but it isn't a good thing if your porous TPS, on top (quite!) of a 60m rocket gets moisture (light rain, or morning launch).
I don't believe they are adding something to be removed before launching, most probably reentry would dispose of it for them....
Regarding scratches and similar never seen them on old pictures, no complaining surfaced ever.

Mmmhhh.... some other ideas guys, otherwise I will remain on kraisee suggestion.

[robertross]

PICA is porous, but not absorbent.
Phenolic resin means you can wash it and dry it in your factory, but it isn't a good thing if your porous TPS, on top (quite!) of a 60m rocket gets moisture (light rain, or morning launch).
I don't believe they are adding something to be removed before launching, most probably reentry would dispose of it for them....
Regarding scratches and similar never seen them on old pictures, no complaining surfaced ever.

Mmmhhh.... some other ideas guys, otherwise I will remain on kraisee suggestion.

If required, just bake it out in an oven. It can obviously survive the heat 

For scratches & such: testing in an arc jet furnace should give a good deal of data to verify things.

[MP99]

Why would it need to be cleaned and the char removed if it's meant to reusable and passes safety checks.
Does a car have to be necessarily washed before every drive?

Dragon is white, which is presumably part of it's thermal design.

Launching with char would presumaby upset that.

cheers, Martin

[corrodedNut]

Hardware, lots and lots of hardware:

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/580727main_4%20-%20Lindenmoyer%20COTS%20Status_508.pdf

[apace]

A few pictures from the new PDF. Nice to see the details.

[kevin-rf]

Hardware, lots and lots of hardware:

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/580727main_4%20-%20Lindenmoyer%20COTS%20Status_508.pdf

Drool...

[Silmfeanor]

Hardware, lots and lots of hardware:

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/580727main_4%20-%20Lindenmoyer%20COTS%20Status_508.pdf

That is an amazing file.

towards less pleasant news:
Progress just failed. Is there any chance of speeding up this demo flight to make up for lost supplies?
Live thread from here:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=25702.msg797525#msg797525

[corrodedNut]

I'm not sure what's going on with this upper stage. It's definitely stretched, with an added forward barrel segment, but the boat tail fairings for the solar array pontoons, as seen seen on the separation test article, are not. I don't expect a test article to be exactly like flight hardware, but that seems like major difference. I suppose they could still be added, but I would have expected to see some green primer in these areas, similar to other previous flights' at-the-pad modifications.

[Silmfeanor]

I'm not sure what's going on with this upper stage. It's definitely stretched, with an added forward barrel segment, but the boat tail fairings for the solar array pontoons, as seen seen on the separation test article, are not. I don't expect a test article to be exactly like flight hardware, but that seems like major difference. I suppose they could still be added, but I would have expected to see some green primer in these areas, similar to other previous flights' at-the-pad modifications.

could it be that these boat tail fairings are on another ring that still has to be attached onto the upper stage? IE bolted on?

[mr. mark]

With today's Russian Progress freighter failure, Spacex may be asked to step up to the plate and deliver for real. No more cheese. COTS 2 may become the real deal.

[Ben the Space Brit]

With today's Russian Progress freighter failure, Spacex may be asked to step up to the plate and deliver for real. No more cheese. COTS 2 may become the real deal.

The situation would have to be super-critical for ISSP to even contemplate this.

[ugordan]

With today's Russian Progress freighter failure, Spacex may be asked to step up to the plate and deliver for real. No more cheese. COTS 2 may become the real deal.

Don't count on it. As much as Progress just failed, it's still a more mature system than Dragon. Statistically there's still a higher chance any cargo would be delivered to ISS on Progress than Dragon.

[Jason1701]

This is why we had 135.

[peter-b]

With today's Russian Progress freighter failure, Spacex may be asked to step up to the plate and deliver for real. No more cheese. COTS 2 may become the real deal.

Don't count on it. As much as Progress just failed, it's still a more mature system than Dragon. Statistically there's still a higher chance any cargo would be delivered to ISS on Progress than Dragon.

It depends whether there's enough margin in the supplies on the station to be able to miss a Progress without reducing crew until a replacement mission is rushed out. I'm not an expert on the ISS, but I imagine that a Progress failure would be something that there would be contingency plans for.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if the November Dragon actually carries low-value bulk supplies for the ISS, on the basis that if it berths successfully it'll ease the situation, and if it fails then it won't make matters worse.

[peter-b]

Also, don't forget that there are a bunch of upgrades needed on the station before Dragon can be berthed, and the schedule for those is already really tight IIRC, so I don't see any way COTS 2/3 can be brought forward.

[ugordan]

However, I wouldn't be surprised if the November Dragon actually carries low-value bulk supplies for the ISS, on the basis that if it berths successfully it'll ease the situation, and if it fails then it won't make matters worse.

That was kind of the plan all along. Low value cargo that won't be missed much if it doesn't arrive. I don't see that changing much. Only once Dragon is demonstrated could we start talking about Progres and Dragon in more equal terms.

Edit: yeah, contemplating an accelerated C2 schedule is even less realistic for reasons outlined. It stays at NET Nov 30th, IMHO.

[Namechange User]

This is why we had 135.

The "reason" for STS-135 was to continue to supply ISS in the manner that the orbiter was designed to do while ALSO bring equipment back home. 

While true we have been carrying more and more due to the slips in the CRS schedules and to give ISS some padding for both standard supplies and actual ISS science, it did NOT relieve ISS from any additional re-supply flights.  Otherwise, there would have been zero point in launching Progress in the first place. 

[apace]

This is why we had 135.

The "reason" for STS-135 was to continue to supply ISS in the manner that the orbiter was designed to do while ALSO bring equipment back home. 

While true we have been carrying more and more due to the slips in the CRS schedules and to give ISS some padding for both standard supplies and actual ISS science, it did NOT relieve ISS from any additional re-supply flights.  Otherwise, there would have been zero point in launching Progress in the first place. 

Reminds me of the failed pump. Are there any conclusions already available?

[MP99]

Also, don't forget that there are a bunch of upgrades needed on the station before Dragon can be berthed, and the schedule for those is already really tight IIRC, so I don't see any way COTS 2/3 can be brought forward.

See http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/08/iss-managers-expedition-29-frr-prepare-station-post-shuttle-operations/.

cheers, Martin