Author Topic: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates  (Read 448894 times)

Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #760 on: 08/15/2011 07:39 pm »
It's a cover for the top of the 2nd stage, used during this weeks WDR, since the Dragon was not on the vehicle at the time.


I've been thinking that as well, but how do you know for sure?

Offline corrodedNut

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #761 on: 08/15/2011 07:40 pm »

Looking at this, I do believe the 2nd stage overall is a bit longer than the previous two stages. Whereas they had the Dragon trunk bolted to the top of the stage right next to the LOX vent, the vent appears to be about half a meter below the clamps that hold on to Dragon's trunk (and above which is the cap I guess for conditioned air for avionics in the test setup). Since it's safe to assume the vent wasn't moved lower, a short barrel extension is the conclusion.

That's probably the reason the recent image of the stage in production appeared longer than "usual".

And now we know why, the extra barrel section makes it easier (amongst other things) to "fair-in" the bottom of the solar array "pontoons".

Looks very Skylab-ish, I hope the similarity ends there.

Online kevin-rf

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #762 on: 08/15/2011 07:42 pm »
August 15, 2011

... snip ...

Photos: http://www.spacex.com/updates.php

Wasn't someone just this morning on NSF complaining that SpaceX hasn't put out an update in a while, guess Elon reads NSF ;)
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Offline corrodedNut

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #763 on: 08/15/2011 07:42 pm »
It's a cover for the top of the 2nd stage, used during this weeks WDR, since the Dragon was not on the vehicle at the time.


I've been thinking that as well, but how do you know for sure?

I don't. But there isn't a Dragon on top of the vehicle in the WDR photo, so they must have covered it with something.

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #764 on: 08/15/2011 07:47 pm »
Quote
Depending on demand, Dragon production is planned for a rate of one every six to eight weeks.

Wow, that's 6-8 Dragons a year. 4 Resupply and 4 Crewed a year (2015?)?
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Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #765 on: 08/15/2011 07:56 pm »
Quote
Depending on demand, Dragon production is planned for a rate of one every six to eight weeks.

Wow, that's 6-8 Dragons a year. 4 Resupply and 4 Crewed a year (2015?)?

Purely FWIW, this shows that SpaceX is thinking ahead for non-NASA Dragon customers too as NASA usage may be as low as two cargo and two crew a year.

What alternate customers? Bigelow might want to buy Cargo Dragon and Crewed Dragon for supplying Alpha, for example.  Also, I'm still interested to see if there is a 'duo Dragon' equivalent of Plymouth Rock using Crewed Dragon and DragonLab as a micro-spacestation for free-flying missions.
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Offline corrodedNut

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #766 on: 08/15/2011 07:58 pm »
If you watch the CCrew video, you can make out the pontoons on the trunk during the LAS abort simulation portion. I noticed them before, but didn't think much of it, considering previous depictions of the solar array covers were flush-fitting.


Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #767 on: 08/15/2011 08:02 pm »
One wonders why they didn't fly this moldline from the start if it's the standard configuration for Dragon. Surely more valid aerodynamics data would be gathered than using a simple cylindrical trunk?

Offline corrodedNut

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #768 on: 08/15/2011 08:17 pm »
One wonders why they didn't fly this moldline from the start if it's the standard configuration for Dragon. Surely more valid aerodynamics data would be gathered than using a simple cylindrical trunk?

I'm guessing because they simply didn't know what the final moldline would be when they built the Flight2 trunk-slash-s/c adapter.

This sure seems like a fast moving development program, I just hope the panels don't rip off during ascent! The capital "X" is for excitement!

Offline Prober

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #769 on: 08/15/2011 08:19 pm »
August 15, 2011

... snip ...

Photos: http://www.spacex.com/updates.php

Wasn't someone just this morning on NSF complaining that SpaceX hasn't put out an update in a while, guess Elon reads NSF ;)

I've thought that for a long time.

So let me pass this one on to Elon.   I get bad "vibes" about the Nov 30th launch date.   Why because it comes in the middle of the next US political sandstorm ahead.   The US super Congress report is due around that time.

IMHO, the Sept-Oct timeframe would have been better.  But what do I know?  Maybe this is NASA's way to take the interest off the Super Congress, as long as the mission goes as planned.


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Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #770 on: 08/15/2011 08:37 pm »
So let me pass this one on to Elon.   I get bad "vibes" about the Nov 30th launch date.   Why because it comes in the middle of the next US political sandstorm ahead.   The US super Congress report is due around that time.

IMHO, the Sept-Oct timeframe would have been better.  But what do I know?  Maybe this is NASA's way to take the interest off the Super Congress, as long as the mission goes as planned.


That is ridiculous
This launch will not be affected by it nor will this launch affect it.

Offline oldAtlas_Eguy

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #771 on: 08/15/2011 08:38 pm »
Quote
Depending on demand, Dragon production is planned for a rate of one every six to eight weeks.

Wow, that's 6-8 Dragons a year. 4 Resupply and 4 Crewed a year (2015?)?

One reason you build units as fast as you can is to reduce costs even if they may not be used for years to come. The current production line is producing cargo Dragons. Once they have all they need to fly through probably 2016 or about 15-16 cargo Dragons which they should be able to produce by early mid 2013 they can then start producing Crewed Dragons. Once demand increases they can open a second line to produce both cargo and crew Dragons simultaniously.

1 US every 2 weeks is 25 a year. Thats many more than they need and the stated 20 per year value. Or is it 1 1st and 1 US every 3 weeks or 3 1st stage and 1 US every 5 weeks. The other way its 10 F9's and 4 FH's or 15 F9's and 1 FH which seems to be closer to reality.

But they could easily be making as many as they can as fast as they can again for the same cost reduction reasoning. Right now they are producing the Block I tank length. They may want to produce a large quantity of theses to continue flying this shorter version F9 through until SLC-40 pad mods occur so that it can handle the longer tank. Then stopping the 1st stage line, retool and then start producing the longer 1st stage tanks mid 2012, while still producing the same US to support the FH demo flight and future F9 flights. 32 1st stage tanks would keep the short tank version flying for 4 years through about end of 2015. It would take nearly 2 years from now (if they can actual produce an US every 2 weeks) to produce 32 US but only 1 year from now to produce 32 non-stretch 1st stage tanks (if they actual can produce at 1 a week).

Offline mr. mark

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #772 on: 08/15/2011 08:59 pm »
I really wasn't complaining but, wow thanks Spacex for the quick response lol. Now if we could just get Elon Musk or one of Spacex's reps to come on here to answer our questions live. Now that would be cool.....Love the COTS 2 Dragon pic! Glad to see things are moving along for launch.
« Last Edit: 08/15/2011 08:59 pm by mr. mark »

Offline Prober

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #773 on: 08/15/2011 09:14 pm »
So let me pass this one on to Elon.   I get bad "vibes" about the Nov 30th launch date.   Why because it comes in the middle of the next US political sandstorm ahead.   The US super Congress report is due around that time.

IMHO, the Sept-Oct timeframe would have been better.  But what do I know?  Maybe this is NASA's way to take the interest off the Super Congress, as long as the mission goes as planned.


That is ridiculous
This launch will not be affected by it nor will this launch affect it.

Don’t dismiss this out of turn Jim
You don’t have access to the WH, or meetings between the WH and NASA management.
Sorry I just don’t have your “faith” in Washington or NASA management. What can be seen is just about everything is becoming political.

« Last Edit: 08/15/2011 09:25 pm by Prober »
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Offline Lars_J

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #774 on: 08/15/2011 09:22 pm »
Very nice update! Especially this image of the Dragon capsule: (attached)

Some notes/questions:
1. Neat to see the CBM adapter attached (as noted by others) - quite large :)
2. There appears to be some new(?) molded panels around the thrusters. I wonder if that is a new element? Or perhaps it will be covered by a final layer of insulation before launch to look like the previous Dragon.

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #775 on: 08/15/2011 09:24 pm »

Sorry I just don’t have your “faith” in Washington or NASA management.


It has nothing to do with faith, it has to do with that there are bigger issues than NASA funding and this launch will have no affect on those and what congress is dealing with.  In fact, the launch is meaningless to Super Congress.

Offline KEdward5

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #776 on: 08/15/2011 09:28 pm »
August 15, 2011

Over the last several months, SpaceX has been hard at work preparing for our next flight — a mission designed to demonstrate that a privately-developed space transportation system can deliver cargo to and from the International Space Station (ISS). NASA has given us a Nov. 30, 2011 launch date, which should be followed nine days later by Dragon berthing at the ISS.

NASA has agreed in principle to allow SpaceX to combine all of the tests and demonstration activities that we originally proposed as two separate missions (COTS Demo 2 and COTS Demo 3) into a single mission. Furthermore, SpaceX plans to carry additional payloads aboard the Falcon 9’s second stage which will deploy after Dragon separates and is well on its way to the ISS. NASA will grant formal approval for the combined COTS missions pending resolution of any potential risks associated with these secondary payloads. Our team continues to work closely with NASA to resolve all questions and concerns.

This next mission represents a huge milestone not only for SpaceX, but also for NASA and the US space program. When the astronauts stationed on the ISS open the hatch and enter the Dragon spacecraft for the first time, it will mark the beginning of a new era in space travel.

Through continued private-public partnerships like the one that helped develop the Falcon 9 and Dragon system, commercial companies will transform the way we access space. Together, government and the private sector can simultaneously increase the reliability, safety and frequency of space travel, while greatly reducing the costs.

The update below highlights our recent progress towards the combined C2/C3 mission and missions beyond. From the 1,500 team members here at SpaceX, thank you for your continued support, and for joining us in this exciting, vital adventure.

This week, we successfully completed a wet dress rehearsal (WDR) for the Falcon 9 Flight 3 launch vehicle at Space Launch Complex 40, Cape Canaveral, Florida. The WDR is a significant test during which we load propellant into the vehicle and perform all operations just as we would on launch day right down to T-1 seconds, at which point we abort and detank the propellant.

Since our last flight, we have made significant upgrades to the launch pad to streamline the countdown. For example, we installed new liquid oxygen (LOX) pumps that reduced our previous loading time from 90 minutes to under 30. Improvements like this are getting us closer to our long term goal of Falcon 9 going from hangar to liftoff in under an hour. This is no easy task for a vehicle with about the same takeoff weight as a fully loaded Boeing 747, but if a 747 can do it reliably day after day, then Falcon 9 can too.

In a SpaceX clean room in Hawthorne (Los Angeles) California, technicians prepare the Dragon spacecraft for thermal vacuum chamber testing. The open bays will hold the parachutes. NASA has given us a launch date of Nov 30, 2011 for Falcon 9 Flight 3, which will send a Dragon spacecraft to the International Space Station (ISS) as part of NASA’s Commercial Orbital Transportation Services program.

Also in Hawthorne, we have conducted separation tests of the Dragon trunk from the Falcon 9 second stage. Release mechanisms hold the trunk (top, with solar panel covers on left and right sides) to the stage (bottom). When activated, springs on the Falcon 9 push against the Dragon trunk. The trunk separates and the test fixture’s counterbalance system raises the spacecraft up and away.

In the Hawthorne factory high bay, we tested the Dragon solar array rotary actuator by hanging the full array from the ceiling. The actuator (top center) turns the entire array. In flight, the solar panels will track the sun for maximum energy capture.

We are well into production with all parts (shown above) for the following launch, Falcon 9 Flight 4 and its Dragon CRS-1 spacecraft, which should be the first commercial cargo resupply mission under NASA Commercial Resupply Services (CRS) program. Significant additional tooling and automation with be added to the factory, as we build towards the capability of producing a Falcon 9 first stage or Falcon Heavy side booster every week and an upper stage every two weeks. Depending on demand, Dragon production is planned for a rate of one every six to eight weeks.

Demolition work continues at Space Launch Complex 4 East, our new launch site at Vandenberg Air Force Base on the central coast of California. Recently, the crew dropped the big “hammerhead” overhanging structure from the legacy Titan IV Mobile Service Tower (sequence above). Removing the tower is a major step in upgrading the pad for Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy launches. We are targeting late 2012 to bring Falcon Heavy to Vandenberg for vehicle to pad integration tests and 2013 for liftoff. Falcon Heavy will be the most powerful rocket in the world.

Stay tuned for more updates on the combined COTS-2 and COTS-3 mission to the ISS, slated for launch on Nov 30, 2011.

Photos: http://www.spacex.com/updates.php

Good honest update from them.

Offline Lars_J

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #777 on: 08/15/2011 09:28 pm »

Sorry I just don’t have your “faith” in Washington or NASA management.


It has nothing to do with faith, it has to do with that there are bigger issues than NASA funding and this launch will have no affect on those and what congress is dealing with.  In fact, the launch is meaningless to Super Congress.

Yep, I remember there was also a lot of discussion on this forum by some before COTS 1 about the danger of launching COTS 1 during a politically sensitive period (involving going before or after STS-134, and other issues).

All that turned out to be meaningless. They (SpaceX) will launch when they feel they are ready, and when NASA agrees.
« Last Edit: 08/15/2011 09:29 pm by Lars_J »

Offline corrodedNut

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #778 on: 08/15/2011 09:29 pm »
Some notes/questions:

There's also at least one window missing, compared to the last flight.

Offline Lars_J

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Re: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates
« Reply #779 on: 08/15/2011 09:37 pm »
Some notes/questions:

There's also at least one window missing, compared to the last flight.

Nice catch... Can't believe I missed that!

For camparison, here is the COTS 1 Dragon from a similar angle: http://www.alternatewars.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/IMG_9321.jpg
The missing window is supposed to be above and to the right of the right parachute/drogue bay.

I'm also curious to see the front side... And where the grapple fixture will be located. In some renderings it has been under the hatch, but the COTS 1 dragon had the umbilical connections under the hatch.
« Last Edit: 08/15/2011 09:40 pm by Lars_J »

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