SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates

[ugordan]

Honest question: would people rather have excessive excitement and then disillusionment or tempered but accurate excitement?

Tempered but accurate for me, every time.

[Chandonn]

Is 9 days enough?

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=24179.msg709450#msg709450

I don't see it as implausible. Their pace is still slow overall, but there's no reason not to assume they're starting to streamline at least some aspects of the flow.

What I'm surprised about is why the stage was shipped to the Cape so early. They must be operating under the assumption C2/C3 will not be combined so are pressing ahead with the C2 schedule. Prudent.

If NASA does allow combining the two as hinted recently, for the booster it's going to be a case of hurry up and wait.

OK, conspircy theory time.

Obama is headed down to the Cape this weekend. Elon had to make sure that SpaceX actually looked like they were busy working on the "Shuttle-replacement". This is another rocket body that isn't ready to fly, but is part of the Elon Musk / SpaceX show and tell.

Wouldn't it just be cheaper and easier to keep an inflatable Falcon 9 baloon they could trudge out for PR every week or two, and for presidential visits?

[Jim]

Regarding the speculation about all the engine testing at McGregor, and subsequent readiness for integration at the Cape... I wouldn't be surprised if SpaceX had at least one extra set of engines at the Cape, in case the pre-launch static fire showed that one or more engines had a problem. I suppose they would swap out the whole set-of-nine with the spare set, and deal with the individual engines later.

Huh, that is ludicrous.

[edkyle99]

Is 9 days enough?

It took perhaps 10 days to truck the initial pathfinder Falcon 9 all the way from Southern California to the Cape.  That was daylight driving only, during December when the days were short.  McGregor to Canaveral is 1,200 miles.  Even if the trip was limited to the same 10-11 mph-ish average of the first run from California (including all stop time in the average), it should be no problem to go from McGregor to SLC 40 inside of five days.  Add one day for taking the stage down from the test tower and perhaps another for transport prep.

Funny that with all of the cell phone cameras and instant tweeting going on there's been no mention of any of this process anywhere.  I guess that a big truck on the road just doesn't garner many second glances!

 - Ed Kyle

[grr]

Was there a comment somewhere about how open SpaceX is with info? There's a lot of guessing here for such an open company. I'm not making a point about SpaceX. I'm making a point about irrational expectations of them.

Honest question: would people rather have excessive excitement and then disillusionment or tempered but accurate excitement?

Depends on what arena.
I like that SpaceX is far far more open then any of the current space companies (yours included). And they have it geared for marketing. That has stimulated a number of citizens and others to pay attention to space again. Basically, it is returning to being  exciting like it was in the 60's.  I see my kids and other kids in school liking the simulations, the videos, etc from SpaceX.  Right now, my children and a number of their classmates know a lot about Saturn V, the Shuttle and Falcons.  Also, Politicians work like CHildren. When they see SpaceX having long range plans (even marketing) AND can see that they making things happen, well, they will be heavily influenced. OTH, when a company shows nothing about their company's products and then you only hear about their failures, well, you associate failure with that company.

The problem is in the technical arena, some have not realized that marketing material can not be trusted. When it comes to openness about their specs, I think that they are still better than the other companies, but not by much.  For here, accurate is obviously better. However, compared to 3 years ago when I was lurking here, this site's attitude has changed. It used to be a stolid (I have had more animated conversations when working on Mars Global Surveyor than most of the conversations here were). Now, I notice they are getting wilder, in no small part due to SpaceX's marketing info and their swagger.

[Robotbeat]

Is 9 days enough?

It took perhaps 10 days to truck the initial pathfinder Falcon 9 all the way from Southern California to the Cape.  That was daylight driving only, during December when the days were short.  McGregor to Canaveral is 1,200 miles.  Even if the trip was limited to the same 10-11 mph-ish average of the first run from California (including all stop time in the average), it should be no problem to go from McGregor to SLC 40 inside of five days.  Add one day for taking the stage down from the test tower and perhaps another for transport prep.

Funny that with all of the cell phone cameras and instant tweeting going on there's been no mention of any of this process anywhere.  I guess that a big truck on the road just doesn't garner many second glances!

 - Ed Kyle

The other possibility is that it's a different first stage than the one that was test-fired on April 19th.

[QuantumG]

Oh, did anyone mention that the pictures of the stage that were posted earlier in this thread was delivered just minutes before?  Apparently the SpaceX engineers are very excited over the trailer that was used to deliver it.  Shame no-one seems to have posted pictures of it.

[Antares]

Regarding the speculation about all the engine testing at McGregor, and subsequent readiness for integration at the Cape... I wouldn't be surprised if SpaceX had at least one extra set of engines at the Cape, in case the pre-launch static fire showed that one or more engines had a problem. I suppose they would swap out the whole set-of-nine with the spare set, and deal with the individual engines later.

Intel out of friends at Baylor says they haven't tested enough engines for that to be true.

[Antares]

This is Obama's second trip to the Cape, right?

When's the last time a president went to the Cape for a launch?  Which other recent presidents have visited?

Only Clinton and Nixon have seen a manned launch while in office.

[Antares]

Why does the middle engine look so different compared to the engines above and below?

You may be seeing the fill and drain lines, which are in the foreground of the photo, right by the "middle" engine. This is where (half) of the 1st stage umbilicals are connected, the vehicle disconnects point "down" or aft.

To be specific, those look like turbine exhausts.  Top engine it's toward the camera, middle engine it's up, bottom engine it's down.

[ugordan]

Why does the middle engine look so different compared to the engines above and below?

You may be seeing the fill and drain lines, which are in the foreground of the photo, right by the "middle" engine. This is where (half) of the 1st stage umbilicals are connected, the vehicle disconnects point "down" or aft.

To be specific, those look like turbine exhausts.  Top engine it's toward the camera, middle engine it's up, bottom engine it's down.

No, I think you're talking about different things. CorrodedNut appears to be talking about the area outlined here, while Joris who asked about the engines was actually curious about what you're talking about - "missing" turbine exhaust and the complex wiring seen on the bottom engine.

[mr. mark]

AS we look forward to COTS 2/3, It's great to look back and review just how far both Orbital and Spacex have come. Here is a great overview of the COTS project.

[Robotbeat]

AS we look forward to COTS 2/3, It's great to look back and review just how far both Orbital and Spacex have come. Here is a great overview of the COTS project.

Wow, that is a really well-done video. Enjoyable to watch.

Our Antonioe is on there, too!

I think it's a pretty good contrast between the extreme horizontal integration approach of Orbital and the extreme vertical integration approach of SpaceX. It is true that this is an exciting time!

[ugordan]

Apparently the SpaceX engineers are very excited over the trailer that was used to deliver it.  Shame no-one seems to have posted pictures of it.

Wasn't it delivered the same way as the previous one?

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/detail.cfm?mediaid=48307

[ugordan]

Stage arrival images have been posted in the KSC media archive:

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/detail.cfm?mediaid=52350
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/detail.cfm?mediaid=52353
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/detail.cfm?mediaid=52357

...and more. Apparently arrived April 26th.

[dragon44]

Stage arrival images have been posted in the KSC media archive:

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/detail.cfm?mediaid=52350
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/detail.cfm?mediaid=52353
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/detail.cfm?mediaid=52357

...and more. Apparently arrived April 26th.

So it looks like a custom transport (vs. the older picture which looked like a generic trailer). Interesting thing to notice is that the rocket is apparently a rigid part of the trailer. In essence, it is the trailer with some wheels attached. Will also let SpaceX extend the stage without needing to design a new trailer. I wonder how the stresses of being a road-worthy trailer compare to launch. Is any other stage every put through this kind of thing?

[ugordan]

the rocket is apparently a rigid part of the trailer. In essence, it is the trailer with some wheels attached.

It certainly does look that way, doesn't it?

[Jim]

Look at Atlas V

[dragon44]

Look at Atlas V

Thanks Jim. Found a pic from LCROSS.
http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/images/launchprep/2009-04-27_Booster_2009-2834.jpg

It looks like the Atlas V journey is from the airfield to the pad. Still stressful, but not quite a TX to FL trip. I wonder if these tanks are pressurized for this kind of transport.

[ugordan]

It looks like the Atlas V journey is from the airfield to the pad.

I think it's the trip from ASOC to VIF. I haven't been able to find an image of CCBs being trucked around the country. AIUI, Centaurs are flown in, are CCBs as well?