Author Topic: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates (Read 448928 times)

Dave G · « **Reply #180 on:** 04/21/2011 10:14 pm »

Quote from: ugordan on 04/21/2011 09:35 pm

I don't see a reason for NASA to prevent M1d on CRS flights, it's not the vehicle that goes near ISS, it's Dragon.

Does CRS involve any high value payload items? I thought I heard something about this a while back.

FinalFrontier · « **Reply #181 on:** 04/21/2011 10:23 pm »

Quote from: Chris Bergin on 04/21/2011 05:28 pm

Looking like a good chance NASA will approve C2 and C3 combined flights. We're seeing NASA documentation and memos (L2) giving dates and preps for readiness meeting dates in the event of approval.

NASA do like to prep things, but initial comments back claim it is within context to say it's looking positive.

Will aim to write it up after some asking around for additional notes and context.

IMO the sooner the better with STS about to end.

Now if we can just get a move on for commercial crew..............

Antares · « **Reply #182 on:** 04/22/2011 05:10 am »

Quote from: Dave G on 04/21/2011 10:14 pm

Quote from: ugordan on 04/21/2011 09:35 pm
I don't see a reason for NASA to prevent M1d on CRS flights, it's not the vehicle that goes near ISS, it's Dragon.
Does CRS involve any high value payload items? I thought I heard something about this a while back.

Ask the PI who just spent the last 5+ years developing a flight experiment. Cash value may be relatively low compared to the mission price, but how much is the last 5 years of your career plus the next 3 years and the resulting data and analysis worth?

ugordan · « **Reply #183 on:** 04/22/2011 04:17 pm »

No ISS docking permission for SpaceX unless safety proven -Roscosmos

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20110422/163656727.html

Obviously, that's not saying much because NASA wouldn't allow it either unless all prior objectives were met, but there you have it.

starsilk · « **Reply #184 on:** 04/22/2011 05:28 pm »

Quote from: ugordan on 04/22/2011 04:17 pm

No ISS docking permission for SpaceX unless safety proven -Roscosmos

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20110422/163656727.html

Obviously, that's not saying much because NASA wouldn't allow it either unless all prior objectives were met, but there you have it.

it's an interesting quote though. in theory Dragon competes with Progress, and later on Soyuz, potentially taking a lot of money away from the Russians. suppose they continue to argue that "it's not safe, therefore no docking permit"?

Jim · « **Reply #185 on:** 04/22/2011 05:31 pm »

Quote from: starsilk on 04/22/2011 05:28 pm

it's an interesting quote though. in theory Dragon competes with Progress,

No, it does not. It replaces the shuttle

mr. mark · « **Reply #186 on:** 04/22/2011 05:32 pm »

So let me get this straight, Russia who will soon have the only human access to the ISS now wants to slow down a commercial development program not only for COTS but human spaceflight as well since both are interconnected to the same vehicle. Slow down COTS Dragon and you slow down human rated Dragon as well. Sounds liked forced Blackmail to me. NASA needs to take a strong stand against Russia's bullying tactics. Who is going to determine the safety level of a US commercial vehicle Russia? So now not only will commercial vehicles have to pass NASA standards but also Russia's as well.

robertross · « **Reply #187 on:** 04/22/2011 05:33 pm »

Quote from: starsilk on 04/22/2011 05:28 pm

Quote from: ugordan on 04/22/2011 04:17 pm
No ISS docking permission for SpaceX unless safety proven -Roscosmos

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20110422/163656727.html

Obviously, that's not saying much because NASA wouldn't allow it either unless all prior objectives were met, but there you have it.

it's an interesting quote though. in theory Dragon competes with Progress, and later on Soyuz, potentially taking a lot of money away from the Russians. suppose they continue to argue that "it's not safe, therefore no docking permit"?

There is no competition when you need all those VV & more. Right now, as soon as one progress departs ISS another is launched.

Russia is as concerned as any partner would be, but more so for them because of their (bad) experience on Mir. Once bitten...twice shy.

notherspacexfan · « **Reply #188 on:** 04/22/2011 05:34 pm »

Quote from: ugordan on 04/22/2011 04:17 pm

No ISS docking permission for SpaceX unless safety proven -Roscosmos

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20110422/163656727.html

Obviously, that's not saying much because NASA wouldn't allow it either unless all prior objectives were met, but there you have it.

This little bit would seem to imply that combining COTS2 and 3 will not be allowed.

Quote

He said that to authorize docking, the Russian space agency will need to study data about the demonstration flight due to take place later this year.

I wonder if the same rules will apply to Cygnus, and why they didn't apply to ATV and HTV.

Jim · « **Reply #189 on:** 04/22/2011 05:35 pm »

stop, stop, stop

This is getting blown out proportion.

They aren't doing anything malicious. They are just restating the obvious. Dragon won't dock until all the analysis and testing is done.

rcoppola · « **Reply #190 on:** 04/22/2011 05:42 pm »

Quote from: Jim on 04/22/2011 05:35 pm

stop, stop, stop

This is getting blown out proportion.

They aren't doing anything malicious. They are just restating the obvious. Dragon won't dock until all the analysis and testing is done.

OK, I understand that, but wouldn't they just keep in consultation with NASA? Why would they need to see the data as opposed to letting NASA speak for them? Has every cargo ship's performance data been subjected to actual Russian review and approval before docking?

aquarius · « **Reply #191 on:** 04/22/2011 05:43 pm »

Why do they need to study data? What, they don't trust NASA?

mr. mark · « **Reply #192 on:** 04/22/2011 05:47 pm »

Any fool can see this is not about safety because NASA's word should be as good as gold when it comes to that. NASA would never intentionally subject astronauts to undo risk if it could be avoided. This is clearly about money plain and simple. You find a way to keep competition away especially if that competition affects your bottom line.

psloss · « **Reply #193 on:** 04/22/2011 05:48 pm »

Quote from: Jim on 04/22/2011 05:35 pm

stop, stop, stop

This is getting blown out proportion.

"Captain, we've run out of coffee!"

ugordan · « **Reply #194 on:** 04/22/2011 05:50 pm »

Jim is right, you're really blowing this out of proportion. I saw this as non-news, really. Just the Russians' way of saying it's their station too and NASA's not the only agency that's concerned.

Lurker Steve · « **Reply #195 on:** 04/22/2011 05:53 pm »

Quote from: Jim on 04/22/2011 05:31 pm

Quote from: starsilk on 04/22/2011 05:28 pm

it's an interesting quote though. in theory Dragon competes with Progress,

No, it does not. It replaces the shuttle

Right, NASA has never purchased ISS re-supply services from the Russians. The CRS is about replacing some of the cargo services that were provided by the shuttle. It's not quite as large as a MPLM, but more or less the same functionality.

rcoppola · « **Reply #196 on:** 04/22/2011 05:56 pm »

I am perfectly willing to accept that some of us are blowing this out of proportion. But again I have to ask, has Russia been given data to approve any or all of the other cargo resupply craft that interfaces with the ISS?

Or is this different, because this cargo vehicle also happens to be on course to become a crewed vehicle as well? And what that implies..

psloss · « **Reply #197 on:** 04/22/2011 06:01 pm »

Quote from: Lurker Steve on 04/22/2011 05:53 pm

Right, NASA has never purchased ISS re-supply services from the Russians. The CRS is about replacing some of the cargo services that were provided by the shuttle. It's not quite as large as a MPLM, but more or less the same functionality.

NASA procured cargo resupply space on Progress flights (through this year) and CRS is also replacing that, unless that arrangement was renegotiated.

mr. mark · « **Reply #198 on:** 04/22/2011 06:02 pm »

"Or is this different, because this cargo vehicle also happens to be on course to become a crewed vehicle as well?"

Welcome to business 101. Most small business owners have run into these same roadblocks with civic governments and other corporations. Create roadblocks, delays that way those peoples upfront's bottom line is not affected. Sometimes it's legally based sometimes financial but the result is the same, delay or obstruct.

kevin-rf · « **Reply #199 on:** 04/22/2011 06:06 pm »

I agree with Jim based on the fact that the Russian press has to sensationalize and take many things about space out of context.

Now if the astronauts office said the same, I would be very worried...