Author Topic: SpaceX COTS Demo 2 Updates (Read 448935 times)

Chris Bergin · « **on:** 12/10/2010 01:04 am »

UPDATE thread for SpaceX's Falcon 9 (Flight 3) - COTS-2 Demo.

Links:

SpaceX Forum Section:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=45.0 - please use this for general questions, non updates.

SpaceX News Articles from 2006 (Including numerous exclusive Elon interviews):
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=21862.0

SpaceX News Articles (Recent):
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/spacex/

L2 SpaceX Section (now building nicely as we head into NASA's COTS/CRS - Includes COTS-2 Presentations from a NASA Review):
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=tags&tags=SpaceX

Remember, please try and be civil. You can disagree, you just don't need to be rude. Remember there are a lot of space industry people here (who may not be obvious via their username). And space industry people please be respectful that posters may simply need informing, not slapping, if inaccurate. No one - including myself - is allowed to be downright rude on here.

Information, not noise. Posting is about contributing to the community (as much as possible).

Lee Jay · « **Reply #1 on:** 12/10/2010 01:14 am »

IMHO, the two big questions hanging over COTS 2 are, when will it happen and will NASA let it go to ISS? It seems that we have little information on either topic other than perhaps second quarter 2011 and "maybe". Is there any other information on that second topic such as what NASA has said about it in the past?

tigerade · « **Reply #2 on:** 12/10/2010 01:25 am »

Quote from: Lee Jay on 12/10/2010 01:14 am

IMHO, the two big questions hanging over COTS 2 are, when will it happen and will NASA let it go to ISS? It seems that we have little information on either topic other than perhaps second quarter 2011 and "maybe". Is there any other information on that second topic such as what NASA has said about it in the past?

This is the big question. NASA is going to evaluate the data of COTS1 and then decide if they will combine the COTS2 and 3 missions. My question is this though. If they do combine the missions, why not just go ahead and supply them something? If the Dragon will berth with the ISS, they might as well give them some kind of supply! It makes sense to me.

hernick · « **Reply #3 on:** 12/10/2010 01:32 am »

According to the "SpaceX FOR ODF Overview" document dated 06 DEC 10 (available on L2), the cutoff dates for change requests (due 6 weeks before launch) are 03 JUN 11 for C2 and 29 AUG 11 for C3.

This places the COTS Demo 2 launch date on July 15th, 2011.

ChefPat · « **Reply #4 on:** 12/10/2010 01:36 am »

I'll make a typical/amazing people prediction.

Tuesday Jun 7 before noon. COTS 2 & 3 will be combined conditionally, & it won't be allowed to dock if it doesn't meet those conditions. It will also carry low value cargo.

Chandonn · « **Reply #5 on:** 12/10/2010 04:43 am »

Quote from: ChefPat on 12/10/2010 01:36 am

I'll make a typical/amazing people prediction.
Tuesday Jun 7 before noon. COTS 2 & 3 will be combined conditionally, & it won't be allowed to dock if it doesn't meet those conditions. It will also carry low value cargo.

I'm thinking T-shirts for the ISS crew -- T-shirts carrying the SpaceX Logo...

MKremer · « **Reply #6 on:** 12/10/2010 07:45 am »

Extra food, water, clothing, personal hygiene supplies, possibly?

Be interesting to see what they decide to return. Can't be anything too important, I suspect, like experimental results. Maybe unneeded hardware and trash. (stinky capsule splashdown!)

AlexCam · « **Reply #7 on:** 12/10/2010 08:21 am »

Quote from: ChefPat on 12/10/2010 01:36 am

Tuesday Jun 7 before noon. COTS 2 & 3 will be combined conditionally, & it won't be allowed to dock if it doesn't meet those conditions. It will also carry low value cargo.

Agreed on all parts but the launch date. As hernick correctly calculated it, the current plan likely targets July. In general, I think Q3 2011 is a very good bet.

duane · « **Reply #8 on:** 12/10/2010 09:19 am »

Is it me (non space industry person) or does the fact that Spacex launching the first Dragon without it's final configuration of a Trunk/Solar Panels make it seem that the next launch will REALLY be the first test of a usuable Dragon capsule ?

Would the fact that the trunk-ed (for lack of a better description) configuration did not fly on COTS-1 impact NASA's decision on combining COTS-2/3

Thanks for any insight

jabe · « **Reply #9 on:** 12/10/2010 10:19 am »

out of curiosity,
why the long delay between C1 and C2 if flight 1 and 2 were "relatively" close to each other with parts pretty early at the cape. Were they waiting to find out how falcon did before they finished off the last few bits to avoid redesign issues? Is the Dragon the slow pole in the Building of the F9? Going to be hard to meet the one a month launch that they hope to obtain...
jb

butters · « **Reply #10 on:** 12/10/2010 10:43 am »

Quote from: jabe on 12/10/2010 10:19 am

out of curiosity,
why the long delay between C1 and C2 if flight 1 and 2 were "relatively" close to each other with parts pretty early at the cape. Were they waiting to find out how falcon did before they finished off the last few bits to avoid redesign issues? Is the Dragon the slow pole in the Building of the F9? Going to be hard to meet the one a month launch that they hope to obtain...
jb

I think it's pretty obvious that Dragon is the long pole for COTS2 or COTS2/3. They have new solar arrays, new radiators, and redundant avionics units for COTS2, and they also have the instrument bay grapple fixture for COTS3.

It's not a straightforward matter of cranking out a new copy. There is some new hardware to develop or at least integrate on Dragon.

My understanding is that the engines for F9 flight 3 are already finished and the stage structures are well underway or possibly nearing completion. If F9 were the long pole, then they could probably launch in March or sooner. They're not ready for a monthly launch cadence, but it's mostly Dragon that's really holding up the show.

StuffOfInterest · « **Reply #11 on:** 12/10/2010 12:02 pm »

Quote from: butters on 12/10/2010 10:43 am

My understanding is that the engines for F9 flight 3 are already finished and the stage structures are well underway or possibly nearing completion. If F9 were the long pole, then they could probably launch in March or sooner. They're not ready for a monthly launch cadence, but it's mostly Dragon that's really holding up the show.

If Falcon production is getting out ahead of Dragon production then I'm surprised SpaceX doesn't squeeze a commerical flight in before the COTS 2 flight. The Falcon 9 has two good launches now which should give any paying cargo customers confidence. The one big item which hasn't been tested yet is the cargo fairing.

swervin · « **Reply #12 on:** 12/10/2010 12:30 pm »

are there any commercial payloads (they already have on contract) that are ready for launch to take advantage of this proposed idea? i really don't know.

alas, i'll bring my reply back to the topic of this thread:

in terms of add'l mass required for proving out the Dragon spacecraft to stay on-orbit longer and at the space station, how much mass (approx., if anyone knows) is taken up by the addition of LS systems and such, for the astronauts to enter to retrieve gear, etc. Will this function be solely provided by the ISS with air duct tubes, etc? (i assume not).

in terms of the solar panels, will they be 'exposed' during launch along the side of the trunk, but slightly recessed?... or some type of shroud over them at first?

thanks,
nick

Jim · « **Reply #13 on:** 12/10/2010 01:12 pm »

Quote from: swervin on 12/10/2010 12:30 pm

in terms of the solar panels, will they be 'exposed' during launch along the side of the trunk, but slightly recessed?... or some type of shroud over them at first?

They will be in the back of the trunk

jabe · « **Reply #14 on:** 12/10/2010 01:44 pm »

To what degree of work is left to do on the Dragon for C2. I'm assuming (but I could be wrong) that they have the parts built now and just need to integrate them into the new dragon and test the h311 out of it. Since C1 is now complete all resources can be thrown at it. Or is there design work to be done?
as well, Jim commented that the strong back may not be the answer if it keeps taking this kind of abuse. Costs of pad damage and the time needed to fix could negate the cost savings Spacex is hoping to achieve. Curious to see what they end up doing..oh for a tour of the pad after the launch...

jb

manboy · « **Reply #15 on:** 12/10/2010 04:55 pm »

Quote from: duane on 12/10/2010 09:19 am

Is it me (non space industry person) or does the fact that Spacex launching the first Dragon without it's final configuration of a Trunk/Solar Panels make it seem that the next launch will REALLY be the first test of a usuable Dragon capsule ?

I was actually surprised to learn that the last flight was just the dragon capsule.

Antares · « **Reply #16 on:** 12/10/2010 05:00 pm »

Demo 2 Dragon should be considered a first flight article. None of the things necessary to actually go to Station would have been on this flight. None of the RPOC hardware and software. ALL of that has to be completed, AND NASA gets to sign off on whatever interfaces to Station, be it physical or RF, where it didn't have to sign off on anything for Demo 1. That's why it takes so long.

duane · « **Reply #17 on:** 12/10/2010 06:18 pm »

Quote from: Antares on 12/10/2010 05:00 pm

Demo 2 Dragon should be considered a first flight article. None of the things necessary to actually go to Station would have been on this flight. None of the RPOC hardware and software. ALL of that has to be completed, AND NASA gets to sign off on whatever interfaces to Station, be it physical or RF, where it didn't have to sign off on anything for Demo 1. That's why it takes so long.

Sorry Antares, not a industry person and RPOC is not in NSF acronym list
What is RPOC ?

Also, for Jim
The solar panels are stowed before deployment in the back of the trunk ? Do they slide out the back, and then deploy ? Or do they slide out, then rotate 180 degrees forward and then deploy ?

Thanks for any info guys!

Silmfeanor · « **Reply #18 on:** 12/10/2010 06:24 pm »

Quote from: Antares on 12/10/2010 05:00 pm

Demo 2 Dragon should be considered a first flight article. None of the things necessary to actually go to Station would have been on this flight. None of the RPOC hardware and software. ALL of that has to be completed, AND NASA gets to sign off on whatever interfaces to Station, be it physical or RF, where it didn't have to sign off on anything for Demo 1. That's why it takes so long.

I think it is quite correct that NASA gets the final say on whatever interfaces with the station, and it is clear to me a lot of things werent present in the COTS 1 flight, SM for one.
Still, the progress made was good - do you think that they'll get permission to dock?

The best outcome I guess would be to have quite a long flight - first do all the movements to docking away from the ISS, then take a break and check that everything is ok, and only after that give perhaps the permission to dock, only if everything checked out. Load it up with t-shirts, tang and vegetables.
Am I blabbering or is something like this possible?

Jorge · « **Reply #19 on:** 12/10/2010 06:38 pm »

Quote from: duane on 12/10/2010 06:18 pm

Quote from: Antares on 12/10/2010 05:00 pm
Demo 2 Dragon should be considered a first flight article. None of the things necessary to actually go to Station would have been on this flight. None of the RPOC hardware and software. ALL of that has to be completed, AND NASA gets to sign off on whatever interfaces to Station, be it physical or RF, where it didn't have to sign off on anything for Demo 1. That's why it takes so long.
Sorry Antares, not a industry person and RPOC is not in NSF acronym list
What is RPOC ?

Rendezvous, Proximity Operations, and Capture