LIVE: SpaceX Falcon 9 (Flight 2) - COTS-1 - Launch Updates - December 8, 2010

[mwfair]

  In the West, bridges (and ferry stations even more so), were money making enterprises for the owner/builder.
  Without a doubt, though, there has always been a spectrum of profit margins desired.  Walton or Trump or Ford want +20% profit over revenue. McNerney wants +5%.  Non-profit wants +-0%.  Evidently Zuckerberg wants -50%.    I seriously doubt that Musk wants -100%.  So, even if he isn't scared of negative margin, that doesn't mean that he is willing to throw infinite money at this endeavor.  He is pushing the purchase price down both according to his business model and his personal goals, but he shouldn't be regarded as the Santa Claus of space. 
  IMHO,  building something from pure altruism is a bereft of public value as greedily holding the world hostage by not building it.  A short period of low launch costs due to subsidies from rich benefactors is no substitute for a complete infrastructure that provides requirements-meeting capabilities over the long term at lower structural cost.  Hopefully SpaceX is positioned to do this, seems to be it is their next challenge to flesh this out.  Mr. Musk stated that he doesn't quite know where he would spend $2.5B.  I fear that he'll find out just where it all goes, and the profit margin, and public value, will get eaten away.

[ugordan]

Four hi-res images by Chris Thompson have been posted to their file server: https://send.spacex.com/bds/Login.do?id=A043517252&p1=naj20dpsbfegcidgdlgffcj20

This one is nice:

[david1971]

He's an American citizen now, and I believe that gives him the right to have pride / patriotism, etc.

From the following link:
http://www.gq.com/news-politics/newsmakers/200901/elon-musk-paypal-solar-power-electric-cars-space-travel

"Instead, Elon (pronounced ee-lon) had this thought, consciously, literally, and at the age of 10: America is where people like me need to go. That is where people like me have always gone."

[MP99]

This willingness to look at the data, take a calculated risk, make the decision, do the fix, and suck it up and light the candle is VERY VERY REFRESHING

Have to disagree with this. If you increase your risk, eventually it will cause an unnecessary fail.

At the press conference, the NASA guy said that every time they came up with another question, SpaceX could show that they'd already considered it & it was OK. I took that to mean that NASA were happy that they could do this without increasing risk.

cheers, Martin

[MP99]

One could argue that such is what got both Shuttle crews killed, and that that is why a couple of cracks in the stringers of an external tank are being looked at with such care.

I believe this is also a new type of fault in a system that's already flown many times, and believed to be well understood.

That quite rightly needs a depth of analysis.

cheers, Martin

[Kabloona]

This willingness to look at the data, take a calculated risk, make the decision, do the fix, and suck it up and light the candle is VERY VERY REFRESHING

Have to disagree with this. If you increase your risk, eventually it will cause an unnecessary fail.

At the press conference, the NASA guy said that every time they came up with another question, SpaceX could show that they'd already considered it & it was OK. I took that to mean that NASA were happy that they could do this without increasing risk.

cheers, Martin

Martin is correct. Luke, what you're admiring was not taking a "calculated risk," it was having the independence and ingenuity to make a quick repair on the pad. But the reason they were able to make the decision and proceed quickly with the repair was that, as Elon said, they know their hardware extremely well. They knew the stresses in that area were low, and that they could cut off that portion of the nozzle without risk, but they re-did all the analysis anyway, to be extra careful and to satisfy NASA as well. If, in their mind, there had been anything "risky" about cutting away a portion of the nozzle, they would have taken a lower-risk option, like replacing the entire nozzle extension.

[Namechange User]

This willingness to look at the data, take a calculated risk, make the decision, do the fix, and suck it up and light the candle is VERY VERY REFRESHING

Have to disagree with this. If you increase your risk, eventually it will cause an unnecessary fail.

At the press conference, the NASA guy said that every time they came up with another question, SpaceX could show that they'd already considered it & it was OK. I took that to mean that NASA were happy that they could do this without increasing risk.

cheers, Martin

Martin is correct. What you're admiring was not taking a calculated risk, it was having the independence and ingenuity to make a quick repair on the pad. But the reason they were able to make the decision and proceed quickly with the repair was that, as Elon said, they know their hardware extremely well. They knew the stresses in that area were low, and that they could cut off that portion of the nozzle without risk, but they re-did all the analysis anyway, to be extra careful and to satisfy NASA as well. If, in their mind, there had been anything "risky" about cutting away a portion of the nozzle, they would have taken a lower-risk option, like replacing the entire nozzle extension.

It's probably also important to mention that SpaceX noted they did not require the efficiency/performance from the engine that the extra section of the bell would have provided for the objectives of this flight.  If it did, that would have obviously played into their decision process.

It's great that they were able to do that, and do it quickly, but in the future such fixes may not always be possible and that should not be looked at as if they "lost" something or the "man is keeping them down".   

[ugordan]

Probably more important than a quick fix to the nozzle problem is that they flushed out a design fault in the vehicle in the process of root cause analysis.

[Kabloona]

It's great that they were able to do that, and do it quickly, but in the future such fixes may not always be possible and that should not be looked at as if they "lost" something or the "man is keeping them down".   

Yes, and when they get to crewed Dragon flights, and human lives are on the line, there are going to be more eyeballs on every decision. So such sporting displays as we just saw are going to take a little more time and look a little less sporting to outside observers.

[Kabloona]

Probably more important than a quick fix to the nozzle problem is that they flushed out a design fault in the vehicle in the process of root cause analysis.

Agreed. Maybe you can debate with Jim whether it was a "process failure" or a "design fault." I'll stand by with some popcorn.

[mr. mark]

What was truly incredible was Elon Musk saying that a future Dragon is being planned to do a full powered landing and land on a helipad similar to landing a helicopter. You would launch on the Falcon 9 achieve orbit and have a powered reentry to a pinpoint landing with parachutes as a backup. That's truly incredible and it totally negates the need for flyback plane type vehicles using runways. Sorry Sierra Nevada, you have just been outsmarted and outclassed. Why have runways when you can land on a pad? By the time Dreamchaser is developed it will have already been ruled unnessessary.   

[ilia25]

So any guesses on that small explosion on the liftoff? Looked like there was some fuel left in the pipeline in the mast and it gоt ruptured and exploded.

[Namechange User]

What was truly incredible was Elon Musk saying that a future Dragon is being planned to do a full powered landing and land on a helipad similar to landing a helicopter. You would launch on the Falcon 9 achieve orbit and have a powered reentry to a pinpoint landing with parachutes as a backup. That's truly incredible and it totally negates the need for flyback plane type vehicles using runways. Sorry Sierra Nevada, you have just been outsmarted and outclassed. Why have runways when you can land on a pad? By the time Dreamchaser is developed it will have already been ruled unnessessary.   

Come on.  Really?

A mention of an evolutionary possibility and you are ready to trash another company and a concept of operations?  You even suggest they have been "outclassed" but ignore so many other factors.  Get real. 

[JimO]

Did anyone look for the notice to mariners // NOTAMS // for the splashdown site?

[Robotbeat]

What was truly incredible was Elon Musk saying that a future Dragon is being planned to do a full powered landing and land on a helipad similar to landing a helicopter. You would launch on the Falcon 9 achieve orbit and have a powered reentry to a pinpoint landing with parachutes as a backup. That's truly incredible and it totally negates the need for flyback plane type vehicles using runways. Sorry Sierra Nevada, you have just been outsmarted and outclassed. Why have runways when you can land on a pad? By the time Dreamchaser is developed it will have already been ruled unnessessary.   

Come on.  Really?

A mention of an evolutionary possibility and you are ready to trash another company and a concept of operations?  You even suggest they have been "outclassed" but ignore so many other factors.  Get real. 

I agree that there's no reason to denigrate other companies just because another is successful. If humanity is to expand into space, then this isn't a zero-sum game!

[Lars_J]

JimO, I think I saw one posted somewhere, but I can't for the life of me remember where.

[rdale]

So any guesses on that small explosion on the liftoff?

No explosion, just a small fire. He explained in the presser, but you'll have to sort through 45 pages of Monty Python references and process failure notes to find it.

[Chris Bergin]

SpaceX Reveal’s Dragon’s “Secret” Payload

 

Hawthorne, CA – Before the successful launch, voyage, and recovery of SpaceX’s Dragon Spacecraft, the first time in history a commercial company has recovered a spacecraft from orbit, reporters were buzzing with news of a “secret” payload, stowed on board.

 

It was a payload so secret, SpaceXers made it Top Secret (think Val Kilmer 1984, not official US Government).

 

“Top Secret” payload, bolted to the floor of the Dragon spacecraft. Photo Credit: Chris Thompson

 

 

So what was inside the mystery package?  Their tribute to Monty Python.

 

A wheel of cheese.

[simonbp]

Never said it doesn't, but if someone can spend his formative years in another country and later adopt another as his own, imo it makes him more of a "citizen of the world".

Believe me, it can make you confused at times...

I'm legal citizen of the USA (naturalized), Canada (born there), the UK and the Republic of Ireland (father and mother, respectively).

[Cog_in_the_machine]

I'm legal citizen of the USA (naturalized), Canada (born there), the UK and the Republic of Ireland (father and mother, respectively).

Cool. Making you seems to have been sort of like making the international space station

Also, the big secret is cheese. I don't get it.