Author Topic: LIVE: Soyuz TMA-19 Landing - November 25, 2010  (Read 33447 times)

Offline Davejfb

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Re: LIVE: Soyuz TMA-19 Landing - November 25, 2010
« Reply #140 on: 11/27/2010 03:38 PM »
Here's two pretty unique photos from Greg "Box" Johnson via Twitter - Wheels back in Houston!


Image 1 caption:
Quote
My good buddy Wheels is back in the USA after almost a half year in space! Here he is just off the jet from Russia.


Image 2 caption:
Quote
Here Wheels is enjoying fresh fruit at crew quarters. Koichi [Wakata] and Andy [Thomas] (Shannon nearby) were here to join in the fun.

Why is it that we only see pictures of astronauts and cosmonauts returning home after landing, and in star city. Are there no pic when the American astronauts return home to Houston? If someone had a website where i can find those sorts of pictures, please tell.

Thanks to astronauts who have twitter, whe see these sorts of pictures.
Booster ignition and lift off!!

Greetz
Dave

Offline JimO

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Re: LIVE: Soyuz TMA-19 Landing - November 25, 2010
« Reply #141 on: 11/27/2010 08:36 PM »
After retrofire, the orbital module separates from the descent module, exposing the descent module hatch to space. If I had to bet, I would guess that the descent module hatch released a small amount of atmosphere after separation.

I'll take the bet. The leak was detected WAY before module separation.  Review the timing of messages posted here:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23402.120
   stockman // 0400 --   Deorbit burn Complete...  Nominal burn
   stockman // 0407 --   Descent module pressure is Dropping?? helmets on and locked
   Hungry4info3  // 0411 --   Sounds like they're releasing additional air into the cabin.
   PahTo // 0412 z  --   Pressure coming back up...
   Hungry4info3 // 0416 -- Pressure up to 684 mmHg.
   stockman // 0416 -- Sounds like pressure is still not stable - dropping again a bit
   Hungry4info3 // 0418 -- Back down to 674 mmHg.
   Chris Bergin // 0421 -- Lots of pressure talk isn't there!
   PahTo // 0422 z -- I'm certainly no expert, but I have seen a more than a few landings of the Soyuz craft; and I don't remember hearing so much comm about cabin O2 ppm and pressure...   Sep happening.


JimO: Deorbit burn was 0354 to 0359, sep was at 0420.

Offline Danderman

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Re: LIVE: Soyuz TMA-19 Landing - November 25, 2010
« Reply #142 on: 11/27/2010 11:13 PM »
After retrofire, the orbital module separates from the descent module, exposing the descent module hatch to space. If I had to bet, I would guess that the descent module hatch released a small amount of atmosphere after separation.

I'll take the bet. The leak was detected WAY before module separation.  Review the timing of messages posted here:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23402.120
   stockman // 0400 --   Deorbit burn Complete...  Nominal burn
   stockman // 0407 --   Descent module pressure is Dropping?? helmets on and locked
   Hungry4info3  // 0411 --   Sounds like they're releasing additional air into the cabin.
   PahTo // 0412 z  --   Pressure coming back up...
   Hungry4info3 // 0416 -- Pressure up to 684 mmHg.
   stockman // 0416 -- Sounds like pressure is still not stable - dropping again a bit
   Hungry4info3 // 0418 -- Back down to 674 mmHg.
   Chris Bergin // 0421 -- Lots of pressure talk isn't there!
   PahTo // 0422 z -- I'm certainly no expert, but I have seen a more than a few landings of the Soyuz craft; and I don't remember hearing so much comm about cabin O2 ppm and pressure...   Sep happening.


JimO: Deorbit burn was 0354 to 0359, sep was at 0420.

I'll stick with my story if the Orbital Module is depressurized prior to separation.

edit: I checked, and apparently the OM is depressurized some time before separation, but after retrofire.
« Last Edit: 11/27/2010 11:21 PM by Danderman »

Offline JimO

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Re: LIVE: Soyuz TMA-19 Landing - November 25, 2010
« Reply #143 on: 11/28/2010 12:46 PM »
   I'll stick with my story if the Orbital Module is depressurized prior to separation.
   edit: I checked, and apparently the OM is depressurized some time before separation, but after retrofire.

Well, let's dig into this and get the cabin pressure profile, as well as how MUCH o2 had to be manually released.

Recall the incident with the pressure drop on Krikalyov's last landing -- RKK-E just decided to explain it as crew error, blaming them for leaving a strap in the hatch interface at closing. Krikalyov said that was incorrect.

There seems to be a pattern over there of quickly blaming problems on 'operator error', until maybe they happen a second or third time. Is the cabin leak issue following that same script?

ADD LINK:

Dangling strap to blame for scary space leak?
Russian space officials say 'rushed' crew failed to shut hatch properly
11/1/2005 8:04:17 PM ET

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9888881/

“The pressure drop during the Oct. 11 landing is not a secret — both Soyuz commander Sergey Krikalev and passenger Gregory Olsen have publicly made reference to the unusual event. But neither the U.S. or Russian space agencies have offered any comment. The third man aboard the Soyuz as it returned to Earth from the international space station, NASA astronaut John Phillips, has not referred to the matter, either.”
« Last Edit: 11/28/2010 12:50 PM by JimO »

Offline TJL

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Re: LIVE: Soyuz TMA-19 Landing - November 25, 2010
« Reply #144 on: 11/28/2010 04:32 PM »
Jim...was the pressure drop aboard Soyuz TMA 6 in October 2005 the first time it was detected prior to a Soyuz landing?

Also, has every Soyuz since then shown a drop in pressure prior to landing?

Thank you.

Offline JimO

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Re: LIVE: Soyuz TMA-19 Landing - November 25, 2010
« Reply #145 on: 11/29/2010 01:21 AM »
Jim...was the pressure drop aboard Soyuz TMA 6 in October 2005 the first time it was detected prior to a Soyuz landing?

Also, has every Soyuz since then shown a drop in pressure prior to landing?

I wish I knew. So often, we find out about such incidents from a single-source Moscow 'leak' or from one of the crewmembers.

NASA has never volunteered such information but has responded to requests for confirmation of independent reports.

So we have NO reason to be at all confident that we have ANY idea of the scope of these incidents.




Offline JimO

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Re: LIVE: Soyuz TMA-19 Landing - November 25, 2010
« Reply #146 on: 11/29/2010 09:50 PM »


Kelly Humphries at JSC just checked and sent me this message:

"Yes, this is a completely different problem from the O2 regulator. Appears to have been a hatch seal problem, but you’ll have to ask Russians for details. We have not received a detailed report yet."

Can our Russian colleagues help out?


Offline Lee Jay

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Re: LIVE: Soyuz TMA-19 Landing - November 25, 2010
« Reply #147 on: 11/29/2010 11:21 PM »
So, this three-part design does not permit the crew module hatch seal to be verified before leaving ISS?

Offline Space Pete

Re: LIVE: Soyuz TMA-19 Landing - November 25, 2010
« Reply #148 on: 11/30/2010 02:22 AM »
The SA hatch seal is accessable from the BO prior to separation, and the seal is inspected & wiped down prior to hatch closure.
Electronic Engineer by day, NASASpaceflight's ISS Editor by night | Read my NASASpaceflight articles here

Offline rdale

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Re: LIVE: Soyuz TMA-19 Landing - November 25, 2010
« Reply #149 on: 11/30/2010 07:16 PM »
Soyuz 23S Reentry Anomaly: During landing on 11/26 (GMT), the Soyuz 23S Descent Module (SA) with the Exp-25 crew experienced an internal pressure anomaly which is currently under investigation. [After sealing of the internal hatch between the SA and the Orbital/Habitation Module (BO) by the Soyuz crew before undocking, the standard hatch leak check failed. After reopening and resealing the hatch, the leak rate stayed within allowable parameters, and 23S undocked. Upon subsequent further depressurization of the BO (by opening valve KSD-BO) prior to BO-SA separation, the crew observed the same leak signature on the hatch as before, still within limits and without violating flight rules. The crew introduced oxygen into the cabin atmosphere (by opening valve ZPK-RD). After module separation, air pressure in the Descent Module was maintained at the appropriate level with additional oxygen. Because the BO-SA hatch did not pass the initial pre-undocking leak check and the SA module pressure decreased when the BO module was evacuated during descent, the hatch remains suspect. TsUP-Moscow specialists are analyzing the anomaly and NASA engineers are awaiting further data.]

Offline JimO

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Re: LIVE: Soyuz TMA-19 Landing - November 25, 2010
« Reply #150 on: 11/30/2010 09:23 PM »
Rdale, thanks! I was beginning to fear we'd have to find this info on wikileaks.


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