Author Topic: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview  (Read 446540 times)

Offline psloss

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #520 on: 02/12/2011 02:40 pm »
House appropriations committee is proposing a $379M cut in NASA in the upcoming CR bill:
http://appropriations.house.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=259

Haven't looked for the bill text yet, but this isn't the end of the discussion on Capitol Hill, just another point in negotiations.
The committee released the text of the bill that is supposed to be introduced next week.  SpacePolitics has a nice overview, including links to the text as posted by the committee:
http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/02/12/house-appropriators-cut-deeper-at-nasa/

Also a good reminder at the bottom of the post with Senator Inouye's statement that this isn't over yet.

Offline 2552

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #521 on: 02/12/2011 02:50 pm »
House appropriations committee is proposing a $379M cut in NASA in the upcoming CR bill:
http://appropriations.house.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=259

Haven't looked for the bill text yet, but this isn't the end of the discussion on Capitol Hill, just another point in negotiations.
The committee released the text of the bill that is supposed to be introduced next week.  SpacePolitics has a nice overview, including links to the text as posted by the committee:
http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/02/12/house-appropriators-cut-deeper-at-nasa/

Also a good reminder at the bottom of the post with Senator Inouye's statement that this isn't over yet.



Quote from: spacepolitics
The CR does include a section striking the language in the FY2010 appropriations bill that prevents NASA from terminating Constellation projects, no doubt much to the relief of the agency.

Quote from: the proposed CR, page 205
SEC. 1334. Notwithstanding section 1105, the pro-
viso limiting the use of funds under the heading ‘‘National
Aeronautics and Space Administration, Exploration’’ in
division B of Public Law 111–117 shall not apply to funds
appropriated by this division.

 :)
« Last Edit: 02/12/2011 02:50 pm by 2552 »

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #522 on: 02/13/2011 12:14 am »
House appropriations committee is proposing a $379M cut in NASA in the upcoming CR bill:
http://appropriations.house.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=259

Haven't looked for the bill text yet, but this isn't the end of the discussion on Capitol Hill, just another point in negotiations.
The committee released the text of the bill that is supposed to be introduced next week.  SpacePolitics has a nice overview, including links to the text as posted by the committee:
http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/02/12/house-appropriators-cut-deeper-at-nasa/


I have added a comparaison with the NASA Authorization bill (see attached file):

Account2011 CRNASA Authorization Bill     Diff
Space Operations$5,946.80$5,508.50$438.30
Exploration$3,746.30$3,868.00($121.70)
Science$4,469.00$5,005.60($536.60)
Aeronautics$501.00$929.60($428.60)
Education$182.50$145.80$36.70
Construction$408.30$394.30$14.00
Cross-Agency Support     $3,131.00$3,111.40$19.60
Inspector General$36.40$37.00($0.60)
TOTAL$18,421.30     $19,000.20     ($578.90)     

Edit: Changed the table in this post to a better format. Thanks MP99.
« Last Edit: 02/13/2011 01:20 pm by yg1968 »

Offline PeterAlt

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #523 on: 02/13/2011 12:26 am »
House appropriations committee is proposing a $379M cut in NASA in the upcoming CR bill:
http://appropriations.house.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=259

Haven't looked for the bill text yet, but this isn't the end of the discussion on Capitol Hill, just another point in negotiations.
The committee released the text of the bill that is supposed to be introduced next week.  SpacePolitics has a nice overview, including links to the text as posted by the committee:
http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/02/12/house-appropriators-cut-deeper-at-nasa/


I have added a comparaison with the NASA Authorization bill:

Account                2011 CR   NASA Authorization Bill   Diff

Space Operations   $5,946.80    $5,508.50   $438.30
Exploration   $3,746.30    $3,868.00   ($121.70)
Science               $4,469.00    $5,005.60   ($536.60)
Aeronautics   $501.00                 $929.60                ($428.60)
Education   $182.50                 $145.80                 $36.70
Construction   $408.30                 $394.30                 $14.00
Cross-Agency Support $3,131.00    $3,111.40    $19.60
Inspector General     $36.40                 $37.00                 ($0.60)
TOTAL             $18,421.30    $19,000.20    ($578.90)


Thank you for posting that. It's not as bad as I thought it would be (when you break it down per account). I wonder if this bill would take care of the language problem issues (concerning Constellation program cancellation, etc.) of the current CR?

EDIT: Never mind, I somehow missed the part that said that it strikes down the Constellation requirement language. Even better!
« Last Edit: 02/13/2011 01:56 am by PeterAlt »

Offline robertross

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #524 on: 02/13/2011 01:06 am »
House appropriations committee is proposing a $379M cut in NASA in the upcoming CR bill:
http://appropriations.house.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=259

Haven't looked for the bill text yet, but this isn't the end of the discussion on Capitol Hill, just another point in negotiations.
The committee released the text of the bill that is supposed to be introduced next week.  SpacePolitics has a nice overview, including links to the text as posted by the committee:
http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/02/12/house-appropriators-cut-deeper-at-nasa/

Also a good reminder at the bottom of the post with Senator Inouye's statement that this isn't over yet.


Thanks for the link.

Any idea on what this represents? (page 99):

1 SEC. 8094. The Secretary of Defense shall create a major force program category for space for each future years defense program of the Department of Defense submitted to Congress under section 221 of title 10, United States Code, during fiscal year 2011. The Secretary of Defense shall designate an official in the Office of the Secretary of Defense to provide overall supervision of the preparation and justification of program recommendations and budget proposals to be included in such major force program category.

Offline Jeff Bingham

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #525 on: 02/13/2011 02:54 am »
House appropriations committee is proposing a $379M cut in NASA in the upcoming CR bill:
http://appropriations.house.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=259

Haven't looked for the bill text yet, but this isn't the end of the discussion on Capitol Hill, just another point in negotiations.
The committee released the text of the bill that is supposed to be introduced next week.  SpacePolitics has a nice overview, including links to the text as posted by the committee:
http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/02/12/house-appropriators-cut-deeper-at-nasa/

Also a good reminder at the bottom of the post with Senator Inouye's statement that this isn't over yet.


Thanks for the link.

Any idea on what this represents? (page 99):

1 SEC. 8094. The Secretary of Defense shall create a major force program category for space for each future years defense program of the Department of Defense submitted to Congress under section 221 of title 10, United States Code, during fiscal year 2011. The Secretary of Defense shall designate an official in the Office of the Secretary of Defense to provide overall supervision of the preparation and justification of program recommendations and budget proposals to be included in such major force program category.

Presumably in response to recently released/updated National Security Space Policy.
Offering only my own views and experience as a long-time "Space Cadet."

Offline jongoff

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #526 on: 02/13/2011 04:21 am »
House appropriations committee is proposing a $379M cut in NASA in the upcoming CR bill:
http://appropriations.house.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=259

Haven't looked for the bill text yet, but this isn't the end of the discussion on Capitol Hill, just another point in negotiations.
The committee released the text of the bill that is supposed to be introduced next week.  SpacePolitics has a nice overview, including links to the text as posted by the committee:
http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/02/12/house-appropriators-cut-deeper-at-nasa/


I have added a comparaison with the NASA Authorization bill (see attached file):

Account                2011 CR   NASA Authorization Bill   Diff

Space Operations   $5,946.80    $5,508.50   $438.30
Exploration   $3,746.30    $3,868.00   ($121.70)
Science               $4,469.00    $5,005.60   ($536.60)
Aeronautics   $501.00                 $929.60                ($428.60)
Education   $182.50                 $145.80                 $36.70
Construction   $408.30                 $394.30                 $14.00
Cross-Agency Support $3,131.00    $3,111.40    $19.60
Inspector General     $36.40                 $37.00                 ($0.60)
TOTAL             $18,421.30    $19,000.20    ($578.90)


Unless I'm misunderstanding something, the single biggest loser in this proposed CR is the Office of the Chief Technologist, which is effectively zeroed-out.  While other programs are funded at lower levels, the CR gives Aeronautics and Space Technology the same budget that it had when it was only the Aeronautics line item. If something like this passed, would this mean that Centennial Challenges, SBIR funding, and all the new technology programs under the OCT would all end up being defunded for the rest of the year?

I'm just confused why the bulk of the cuts go to OCT, when most of the money for that program goes to smaller programs, where partial funding would still allow them to get a significant amount of work done. 

~Jon

Offline MP99

Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #527 on: 02/13/2011 10:39 am »
YG's numbers reformatted as a table.

cheers, Martin

House appropriations committee is proposing a $379M cut in NASA in the upcoming CR bill:
http://appropriations.house.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=259

Haven't looked for the bill text yet, but this isn't the end of the discussion on Capitol Hill, just another point in negotiations.

The committee released the text of the bill that is supposed to be introduced next week.  SpacePolitics has a nice overview, including links to the text as posted by the committee:
http://www.spacepolitics.com/2011/02/12/house-appropriators-cut-deeper-at-nasa/

I have added a comparaison with the NASA Authorization bill (see attached file):

Account2011 CRNASA Authorization Bill     Diff
Space Operations$5,946.80$5,508.50$438.30
Exploration$3,746.30$3,868.00($121.70)
Science$4,469.00$5,005.60($536.60)
Aeronautics$501.00$929.60($428.60)
Education$182.50$145.80$36.70
Construction$408.30$394.30$14.00
Cross-Agency Support     $3,131.00$3,111.40$19.60
Inspector General$36.40$37.00($0.60)
TOTAL$18,421.30     $19,000.20     ($578.90)     

Offline kkattula

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #528 on: 02/13/2011 11:17 am »
All they've done is take the 2010 Actual and trim:

  - $200m off Space Operations
  - $40m off Construction
  - $63m off Cross-Agency Support

Probably just to meet some number that's NASA's share of the $100b cut they want.

At the very least it needs to be redistributed more in line with Authorization bill.

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #529 on: 02/13/2011 01:44 pm »
Here is a link to the Press Release for the House FY2011 (February 11 2011) CR:
http://republicans.appropriations.house.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=261
« Last Edit: 02/13/2011 01:45 pm by yg1968 »

Offline jongoff

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #530 on: 02/16/2011 08:00 pm »
Anyone know what this tweet (from Brett Silcox) means:

Crazy day on the House floor on the FY 11 budget..Weiner amend to move $298 mil from NASA CAS to COPS just passed by a vote of 228 to 203.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #531 on: 02/16/2011 08:05 pm »
Anyone know what this tweet (from Brett Silcox) means:

Crazy day on the House floor on the FY 11 budget..Weiner amend to move $298 mil from NASA CAS to COPS just passed by a vote of 228 to 203.
http://space.flatoday.net/2011/02/house-votes-to-move-money-from-nasa-to.html
"The House voted today to take $298 million away from NASA and spend it on local policing."

Yup, Congress (the House, at least) just loves NASA! If only we could keep meanie Obama from ruining NASA!

Note:
"President Barack Obama has threatened to veto the bill over cuts that he said would “sharply undermine core government functions and investments key to economic growth and job creation.""

(I didn't vote for Obama, but those who pretend that all of this is his fault are kidding themselves!)

EDIT: And CAS I believe stands for "Cross Agency Support." Note to NASA: don't ever name something like that or it will get cut just because it sounds unimportant!

Instead, name it: Critical Support for Keeping Asteroids from Killing Us All (or something along those lines) or even Fending-off Unprecedented Terrors from  Uber-Rocks hitting Earth (that way, you can claim that Congress is cutting the FUTURE :] )
« Last Edit: 02/16/2011 08:36 pm by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline psloss

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #532 on: 02/16/2011 08:19 pm »
Anyone know what this tweet (from Brett Silcox) means:

Crazy day on the House floor on the FY 11 budget..Weiner amend to move $298 mil from NASA CAS to COPS just passed by a vote of 228 to 203.
CAS is Cross Agency Support.

Haven't found a discrete link for the amendment text, but the Daily Digest (Congressional Record) from yesterday seems to cover it:

Quote
   AMENDMENT NO. 125 OFFERED BY MR. WEINER , AS MODIFIED

   Mr. WEINER. Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk.

   The Acting CHAIR. The Clerk will designate the amendment.

   The text of the amendment, as modified, is as follows:

   Page 203, line 23, after the dollar amount, insert ``(increased by $298,000,000)''.

   Page 204, line 8, after the first dollar amount, insert ``(increased by $298,000,000)''.

   Page 206, line 10, after the dollar amount, insert ``(reduced by $298,000,000)''.
The page and line numbers correspond to the bill as posted by the House appropriations committee.

FWIW, Rep. Olson offered an amendment shortly thereafter related to NASA, but that was subsequently withdrawn by unanimous consent.

Edit: the Olson amendment was as foreshadowed:
http://olson.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=129&sectiontree=21,129&itemid=584
« Last Edit: 02/16/2011 08:25 pm by psloss »

Online edkyle99

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #533 on: 02/16/2011 08:46 pm »
... those who pretend that all of this is his fault are kidding themselves!

It was Obama who led the way, making the initial cuts - canceling Constellation, etc., just like he promised during his Presidential campaign.  He cut even more than the Augustine Committee recommended, meaning that the plan was hatched in the Executive Branch.  What we are seeing now is merely the feeding frenzy at the bleeding carcass - and this is probably only the first of many cuts.

A few months ago, Congress was fighting *against* the President to keep the Beyond LEO option, SLS, and an extra STS mission.  Congress has not led this parade.  Obama has. 

 - Ed Kyle 
« Last Edit: 02/16/2011 08:47 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #534 on: 02/16/2011 08:55 pm »
... those who pretend that all of this is his fault are kidding themselves!

It was Obama who led the way, making the initial cuts - canceling Constellation, etc., just like he promised during his Presidential campaign.  He cut even more than the Augustine Committee recommended, meaning that the plan was hatched in the Executive Branch.  What we are seeing now is merely the feeding frenzy at the bleeding carcass - and this is probably only the first of many cuts.

A few months ago, Congress was fighting *against* the President to keep the Beyond LEO option, SLS, and an extra STS mission.  Congress has not led this parade.  Obama has. 

 - Ed Kyle 
You're wrong.

Congress is not some unified entity where a few voices represent the whole. The House of Representatives (especially) are whatever the majority votes say they are. There are still voices in Congress from Space States who want more funding for NASA, but they (according to the votes) do not represent the majority of Congress.

Obama is yielding to the political pressure to keep government spending low (he's a liberal, not generally considered the type to cut government spending). He wants to maintain at previous levels, not cut to 2008 levels like the House wants to. To be honest, I'm a little disappointed that he doesn't have the backbone to try real Keynesian economic strategies for getting us out of our liquidity trap, but he's following the winds of political change while trying to keep the economy afloat.
« Last Edit: 02/16/2011 08:56 pm by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Downix

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #535 on: 02/16/2011 09:05 pm »
... those who pretend that all of this is his fault are kidding themselves!

It was Obama who led the way, making the initial cuts - canceling Constellation, etc., just like he promised during his Presidential campaign.  He cut even more than the Augustine Committee recommended, meaning that the plan was hatched in the Executive Branch.  What we are seeing now is merely the feeding frenzy at the bleeding carcass - and this is probably only the first of many cuts.

A few months ago, Congress was fighting *against* the President to keep the Beyond LEO option, SLS, and an extra STS mission.  Congress has not led this parade.  Obama has. 

 - Ed Kyle 
You're wrong.

Congress is not some unified entity where a few voices represent the whole. The House of Representatives (especially) are whatever the majority votes say they are. There are still voices in Congress from Space States who want more funding for NASA, but they (according to the votes) do not represent the majority of Congress.

Obama is yielding to the political pressure to keep government spending low (he's a liberal, not generally considered the type to cut government spending). He wants to maintain at previous levels, not cut to 2008 levels like the House wants to. To be honest, I'm a little disappointed that he doesn't have the backbone to try real Keynesian economic strategies for getting us out of our liquidity trap, but he's following the winds of political change while trying to keep the economy afloat.
He's not a Liberal, he's center-left.  Classically he'd be called a Rockefeller Republican.  His economic model is based more on the work of Hayek than Keynes. (and don't try and tell me Reagan follow Hayek, Reagan followed Friedman, who, despite Friedman's own claims, did not follow nor base his work on Hayek nor the Austrian theory, but instead on older methodologies of the guilded age)

And Ed is right, Obama is in charge here.  He is playing Congress here like a fiddle.  He wanted NASA more scientific focus, and based on what I've heard he even would be ok with something DIRECT-like, but if he proposed such a thing, he'd get Constellation Mark 2.  So, if you want to hit a target, you aim far to the other side.  To get Congress to hit the target, he aimed beyond the target, to pull them into alignment with his wishes.

He does this, over and over again.  Congress is dancing to his fiddle.  If you pay attention, it is getting downright hilarious how well he's doing it. For instance, the veto threat on the budget.  The Republicans expect him to blink, he won't.  Instead, he's positioned the primary military transport system into the combat theatre in Iraq.  As it is, he can't withdraw without political fallout.  But, in the event of a government shutdown, he must by law engage in a full withdrawal, and put full blame on the House, as the wars have been classified as non-essential by the CBO and GAO.

It is frankly sicking to see Congress failing to see how easily they're being setup.
chuck - Toilet paper has no real value? Try living with 5 other adults for 6 months in a can with no toilet paper. Man oh man. Toilet paper would be worth it's weight in gold!

Offline EE Scott

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #536 on: 02/16/2011 09:11 pm »
... those who pretend that all of this is his fault are kidding themselves!

It was Obama who led the way, making the initial cuts - canceling Constellation, etc., just like he promised during his Presidential campaign.  He cut even more than the Augustine Committee recommended, meaning that the plan was hatched in the Executive Branch.  What we are seeing now is merely the feeding frenzy at the bleeding carcass - and this is probably only the first of many cuts.

A few months ago, Congress was fighting *against* the President to keep the Beyond LEO option, SLS, and an extra STS mission.  Congress has not led this parade.  Obama has. 

 - Ed Kyle 
You're wrong.

Congress is not some unified entity where a few voices represent the whole. The House of Representatives (especially) are whatever the majority votes say they are. There are still voices in Congress from Space States who want more funding for NASA, but they (according to the votes) do not represent the majority of Congress.

Obama is yielding to the political pressure to keep government spending low (he's a liberal, not generally considered the type to cut government spending). He wants to maintain at previous levels, not cut to 2008 levels like the House wants to. To be honest, I'm a little disappointed that he doesn't have the backbone to try real Keynesian economic strategies for getting us out of our liquidity trap, but he's following the winds of political change while trying to keep the economy afloat.

He actually did go all "Keynesian" on us, unfortunately none of that "Keynesian" crap bled over into NASA.  What a wasted opportunity to potentially spend some $$ on something exciting and inspirational.  Funny how that works, no matter what the shape the budget or Congress is in, year after year, it seems to be all too easy for Congress and the President to cut NASA.
Scott

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #537 on: 02/16/2011 09:21 pm »
...
He actually did go all "Keynesian" on us
I disagree. Downix is right. Obama isn't a true Keynesian. I don't think he's an economist, Hayek or otherwise. I think he's a political pragmatist.
, unfortunately none of that "Keynesian" crap bled over into NASA.  What a wasted opportunity to potentially spend some $$ on something exciting and inspirational.  Funny how that works, no matter what the shape the budget or Congress is in, year after year, it seems to be all too easy for Congress and the President to cut NASA.
I agree. It sucks.

But one thing I agree with as necessary: the need for NASA to focus on research and science. The much-touted 7-times multiplying factor for money spent on NASA wouldn't exist if NASA just built things that didn't use any new technology.

But I acknowledge to some extent the criticism that innovation without direction is often less effective than innovation with direction. There's a balance between being afraid of anything with a TRL below 9 (thus always staying in the powerpoint stage for anything that's not the status quo) and only doing pure research (thus always staying in the powerpoint stage). Both extremes have the same result.


Downix: I know he's not really a liberal, but that's what his opponents claim he is, in between claims that he's an African-born Muslim that want to convert us to conservative Islam.
« Last Edit: 02/16/2011 09:41 pm by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Downix

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #538 on: 02/16/2011 09:43 pm »
...
He actually did go all "Keynesian" on us
I disagree. Downix is right. Obama isn't a true Keynesian. I don't think he's an economist, Hayek or otherwise. I think he's a political pragmatist.
I'm not saying he's an Economist, more what his economic team is.  Hayek talked of tax cuts for stimulative effect, and the majority of Obamas attempt to stimulate have been just that, tax cuts.
chuck - Toilet paper has no real value? Try living with 5 other adults for 6 months in a can with no toilet paper. Man oh man. Toilet paper would be worth it's weight in gold!

Offline mr_magoo

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Re: NASA FY 2011 Appropriations - preview
« Reply #539 on: 02/16/2011 09:46 pm »
It's interesting that once again R&D was bumped by the WH even as other things were cut back.   It's a bit of a shame that he doesnt count NASA as part of that world but at least they were frozen rather than slashed.

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