Author Topic: Commercial Russian Space Platform in 2016? (Read 20653 times)

Danderman · « **on:** 09/29/2010 02:05 pm »

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j-sqBvsOxF3gUVbw1NhR3R0nWEtAD9IHG2980?docId=D9IHG2980

"A private Russian space firm and a state-controlled spacecraft manufacturer are planning to build and operate the world's first commercial space station and expect it to launched by 2016.

Sergey Kostenko, chief executive of the Moscow-based Orbital Technologies, said in an interview with The Associated Press that the station will cater to space tourists and researchers.

Kostenko said the station will initially be equipped to host seven people but will be capable of significant expansion.

The Russian state space agency, which stands to benefit from the proposed station by leasing launching pads for service modules, says it could be used as a safety back-up for the International Space Station in emergencies."

And here is the Orbital Technologies web site:

http://orbitaltechnologies.ru/en/home.html

Space Pete · « **Reply #1 on:** 09/29/2010 05:31 pm »

Orbital Technologies and RSC Energia to Launch World’s First Commercial Space Station.

Private Russian company and lead contractor for the Federal Space Agency of the Russian Federation collaborate to commercialize space.

Orbital Technologies and Rocket and Space Corporation Energia (RSC Energia) announced today their intentions to build, launch, and operate the world's first Commercial Space Station (CSS). The station will be utilized by private citizens, professional crews as well as corporate researchers interested in conducting their scientific programs onboard the world’s first commercially available human spaceflight platform.

The CEO of Orbital Technologies, Sergey Kostenko said, "I am pleased to announce our intention to provide the global marketplace a commercially available orbital outpost. Once launched and operational, the CSS will provide a unique destination for commercial, state and private spaceflight exploration missions.” Mr. Kostenko continued, “The CSS will be a valuable addition to the global base of orbital assets. We look forward to working with corporate entities, state governments and private individuals from around the world.”

The CSS will be man-tended, with a crew capability of up to seven people. Space-certified elements, modules and technologies of the highest quality and reliability will be used in the construction of the station. The CSS will be serviced by the Russian Soyuz and Progress spacecraft, as well other transportation systems available in the global marketplace. Such arrangements are enabled through the station’s unified docking system that will allow any commercial crew and cargo capability developed in the Unites States, Europe and China.

The CSS’s use will fall under three broad areas:

First, it will be hub for commercial activity, scientific research and development in low Earth orbit. Orbital Technologies has several customers already under contract from different segments of industry and the scientific community, representing such areas as medical research and protein crystallization, materials processing, and the geographic imaging and remote sensing industry. Kostenko commented, “We also have proposals for the implementation of media projects. And, of course, some parties are interested in short duration stays on the station for enjoyment.”

"We consider the Commercial Space Station a very interesting project, encouraging private participation. It will attract private investment for the Russian space industry,” said Vitaly Davydov, Deputy Head of Federal Space Agency of the Russian Federation.

Second, because of the design and its orbital inclination, the CSS will serve as an emergency refuge for the ISS crew, should it become necessary.

"There is a possibility for the ISS crew to leave their station for several days. For example, if a required maintenance procedure or a real emergency were to occur, without the return of the ISS crew to Earth, habitants could use the CSS as a safe haven,” said Alexey Krasnov, Head of Manned Spaceflight Department, Federal Space Agency of the Russian Federation.

"We are pleased to be the general contractor of this ambitious project. For over a decade, RSC Energia’s engineers have outlined and planned for the production of the CSS. Having 40 years of experience in building orbiting space platforms, RSC Energia has the technical resources and expertise; and is poised to build the CSS in a short period of time,” said V. Lopota, President, RSC Energia.

"Finally, the CSS will be a true gateway to the rest of the solar system. A short stop-over at our station will be the perfect beginning of a manned circumlunar flight. Deep space manned exploration missions planned in the next decade are also welcome to use the CSS as a waypoint and a supply station," continued Mr. Kostenko.

Details about the project are located at www.orbitaltechnologies.ru. Updates will be made regularly. Prospective customers, partners, and suppliers are encouraged to contact Orbital Technologies regarding potential involvement with the Commercial Space Station project.

http://orbitaltechnologies.ru/en/news/orbital-technologies-and-rsc-energia-to-launch-world-s-first-commercial-space-station.html

Space Pete · « **Reply #2 on:** 09/29/2010 05:34 pm »

Check out some of the images here: http://orbitaltechnologies.ru/en/images-of-the-commercial-space-station.html

It's essentially just a copy of the ISS Service Module, with Hybrid ports on the Zenith & Nadir Aft.

While it does look kinda cool, I can't help wondering: Why are we (humanity) spending money building a new space research station? Wasn't the ISS supposed to be the "one stop shop" for all space research? Why not just add a module like this to the ISS?

Lars_J · « **Reply #3 on:** 09/29/2010 07:25 pm »

Hmm.. interesting. At first I though that 'Orbital' was the U.S. company, which seemed very odd.

Space Pete, if those images are accurate, it certainly is not a copy of the ISS service module. The internal arrangment is completely different - Not for example crew quarters in the rounded node. It is very different. (again if the images are accurate). The images also only show the living module... No maneuvering thrusters, solar panels, no radiators, no other systems in sight. So the images seem early/speculative at best.

EDIT: Upon closer inspection of images, it seems like the service module of a Progress craft is (semi?) permanently attached. Still, I don't see how it would last long, nor support several crew members.

Looks like they are planning to put in the same inclination and phase of the ISS orbit - only slightly higher or lower. I'm guessing this is RSC Energia's way of trying to save money - They'll want to share Soyuz'es and Progress'es with ISS, and have them visit both on their missions. ISS partners will not be happy about it.

I give this a very low probability of happening, as much as I would love to see a multitude of commercial space stations in orbit.

Bill White · « **Reply #4 on:** 09/29/2010 07:31 pm »

I chuckled at this quote:

Quote

Sergey Kostenko, Orbital Tehcnologies’ chief executive, told The Associated Press in an interview that the planned station would be “a comfortable hotel in orbit, designed specifically for tourists.”

“But it will be more comfortable than the International Space Station because there won’t be any unnecessary scientific equipment,” he said.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j_VvXu5YSgMA1ABk0cR3fKt9ccdgD9IHK1V04?docId=D9IHK1V04

Lars_J · « **Reply #5 on:** 09/29/2010 07:52 pm »

I found this image, which shows a more accurate size, plus how it would be launched: (This appears to be what the station would be based on)

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4597/shlots.jpg

Note that it is *tiny*... The station core would be essentially just a modified stretched Poisk-like russian airlock/docking compartment.

Jim · « **Reply #6 on:** 09/29/2010 07:56 pm »

more powerpoint

Olaf · « **Reply #7 on:** 09/29/2010 10:26 pm »

Is Mr. Kostenko the man, who was the double of Gregory Olsen on Soyuz TMA-7?

aquarius · « **Reply #8 on:** 09/29/2010 10:43 pm »

Quote from: Olaf on 09/29/2010 10:26 pm

Is Mr. Kostenko the man, who was the double of Gregory Olsen on Soyuz TMA-7?

Yes, it must be him.

robertross · « **Reply #9 on:** 09/29/2010 10:52 pm »

Quote from: Jim on 09/29/2010 07:56 pm

more powerpoint

I would have to agree. Would require massive amounts of money: something the ISS International Partners are already commited to.

Skylab · « **Reply #10 on:** 09/29/2010 10:53 pm »

Quote from: Lars_J on 09/29/2010 07:25 pm

Space Pete, if those images are accurate, it certainly is not a copy of the ISS service module. The internal arrangment is completely different - Not for example crew quarters in the rounded node. It is very different. (again if the images are accurate). The images also only show the living module... No maneuvering thrusters, solar panels, no radiators, no other systems in sight. So the images seem early/speculative at best.

http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/russia-space-tourism-commercial-space-station-100929.html has the following info:
"The company's description of the station do not specify its power systems, however a spokesperson told SPACE.com the initial module would have systems similar to the Zvezda service module on the International Space Station. The Russian Zvezda service module is equipped with solar arrays and thrusters for attitude control."

Space Pete · « **Reply #11 on:** 09/30/2010 12:30 am »

I think it's a nice idea, however I have doubts as to whether it could really support even just 3 crewmembers for 4 months. The biggest problem I see would be stowage. As we know from ISS, modules can become very cluttered. That one small module would have to house the crew quarters, toilet/bathroom, ECLSS equipment, avionics, power generation & distribution equipment, heat rejection equipment, uplink/downlink equipment, spare parts, crew medical items, exercise equipment, C&C panels, clothing, food, and scientific gear. I very much doubt all that could fit inside on its own, much less with a crew aswell.

Danderman · « **Reply #12 on:** 09/30/2010 12:22 pm »

Quote from: Lars_J on 09/29/2010 07:52 pm

I found this image, which shows a more accurate size, plus how it would be launched: (This appears to be what the station would be based on)

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4597/shlots.jpg

Note that it is *tiny*... The station core would be essentially just a modified stretched Poisk-like russian airlock/docking compartment.

Since this is more than a cartoon, there are some conclusions that can be drawn from it, with some impacts on the ISS program:

1) The forward cylindrical section is pretty clearly the standard 2.2 meter section seen on Rassvet, the Shuttle-Mir Docking Module, and various other Energia designs. It seems to be a stock article, which is probably cheap to produce.

2) The "node" is new. It looks to be slightly over 3 meters in diameter (the similar "node" on current Russian modules is 2.2 meters in diameter, and the Pirs/Poisk large diameter section is 2.6 meters in diameter). There are 3 docking ports, 2 lateral and one aft. The aft docking port is obscured by the third module, which appears to be a stock Progress bus.

3) The service module bus is virtually identical to that used to deliver Pirs and Poisk, and is connected to the node by a truss section. Clearly, the bus would serve as an interim service module, until its resources were used up. At that point, the "station" would rely on visiting vehicles to perform attitude control, and perhaps even supply power. With the aft port open, a Progress could be detached from ISS, and mated with the aft port to provide some amount of services to this station.

The entire assembly, including the interim bus, would be orbited by a Soyuz 2 LV, which provides about 8 tons of payload to a 51.6 degree orbit. Subtracting 3 tons for the bus, that leaves 5 tons for the node module and cylindrical section. Since earlier cylindrical sections have massed around 2 tons dry, that leaves about 3 tons for the node section, including 3 docking ports. That's doable.

The interior cartoons don't really match up with the dimensions and masses above, but that's what's known as "marketing".

My guess is that what we are really looking at is the Node module, to be delivered to ISS in the next few years. There is a giveaway in the drawing referenced above - the forward docking port is MALE, not female, so the only application for that port would be to dock with an existing female port, and the only such ports are on ISS. In other words, the drawing was originally for the ISS Node module, and someone forgot to swap out the forward port as female (to be consistent with the nice cartoons on the Orbital Technologies web site).

There may be some study money floating around looking at a "commercial" application of a platform based on the new Node module. What's interesting is that the Node module seems to have a different node section than what was used on Zvesda and Zarya, and also has an extra cylindrical section, compared with earlier drawings released by Energia. The earlier Node concepts didn't really make sense, since they showed a very small node and no additional components, leaving about 2 or 3 tons of unaccounted payload mass - its virtually impossible to fill a small node with enough cargo to make up the difference. This concept provides a lot more room, and using an improved Soyuz 2 LV, allows a much more robust Node module to be orbited.

What is not clear is how the lateral ports would be accessed if this module were docked to ISS (via an active port on the front of the cylindrical section). ISS flight rules forbid lateral dockings, so the power modules would have to dock with the nadir port, and then somehow use the ERA to transfer over to a lateral port. That's probably a bit of a challenge.

So, the interesting thing about this concept is not the implausible commercial space platform, but rather that this is the first look at an upcoming new ISS module.

Danderman · « **Reply #13 on:** 09/30/2010 12:27 pm »

For comparison, I am posting some images of the MirCorp Mini-Station concept. These show that the Mini-Station uses some similar hardware, but a "standard" 2.2 meter node and 2.2 meter cylindrical section. In many ways, the concepts are similar, although the node and cylindrical section are transposed.

The Mini-Station service module was a heavily modified Progress bus, with the avionics section removed, and presumably smaller prop tanks. Since this vehicle used the standard Soyuz LV, the potential mass was about a ton less than the Commercial Space Station.

Danderman · « **Reply #14 on:** 10/04/2010 11:18 pm »

The big question concerning this design for the Node/Commercial Space Station is the origin of the hardware used as the central node. It looks to have a diameter greater than 3 meters, but less than 4 meters, probably even less than 3.8 meters - so where did this come from? Its probably a propellant tank from some rocket, but what rocket has spherical tanks of this size that Energia would utilize?

Lars_J · « **Reply #15 on:** 10/04/2010 11:32 pm »

Quote from: Danderman on 10/04/2010 11:18 pm

The big question concerning this design for the Node/Commercial Space Station is the origin of the hardware used as the central node. It looks to have a diameter greater than 3 meters, but less than 4 meters, probably even less than 3.8 meters - so where did this come from? Its probably a propellant tank from some rocket, but what rocket has spherical tanks of this size that Energia would utilize?

The drawing/schematic you attached in your post (two posts up) specifies 3.3 m as the 'node' diameter. If that is indeed the same craft as in the 'Orbital' marketing images.

It certainly does look strange - not matching any of the historical Russian/Soviet space station modules that I am aware of. (which is admittedly not many)

Danderman · « **Reply #16 on:** 10/05/2010 02:46 am »

Quote from: Lars_J on 10/04/2010 11:32 pm

The drawing/schematic you attached in your post (two posts up) specifies 3.3 m as the 'node' diameter. If that is indeed the same craft as in the 'Orbital' marketing images.

It certainly does look strange - not matching any of the historical Russian/Soviet space station modules that I am aware of. (which is admittedly not many)

3300 mm is indeed a strange diameter for a Russian spacecraft. I don't know of any spacecraft with that diameter, but there may be a launch vehicle with 3300 mm prop tanks.

edit: It occurred to me that 3300 mm is 150% of 2200 mm, which is the standard diameter given for the Soyuz orbital module, from which the original ISS Russian nodes were derived.

Space Pete · « **Reply #17 on:** 10/10/2010 07:33 pm »

Commercial Space Station to be Used for Science.

Commercial space station to be built jointly by RSC-Energia and Orbital Technologies will be used to conduct scientific experiments, Head of Roscosmos Human Spaceflight Directorate Alexey Krasnov told news media.
Krasnov explained that heritage of the space missions showed that any flight should have its scientific justification. According to him, many non-professional space men are eager to carry out their experiments in microgravity. So, the new station will be widely used.
On the other hand, commercial station can become space haven for the ISS crew in case of contingency.
According to Krasnov, space hotel has not been considered at all wrt the single-module commercial outpost.
However the implementation of the project will only start after a contract between Russian state-owned rocket and space corporation Energia and Moscow-based company Orbital Technologies is signed, the Energia head said.
Orbital Technologies on Wednesday announced sky-high plans to launch an orbiting hotel in space by 2015-2016.
"As of today, the company only has an agreement of intent. When we have a firm contract, there will be the terms and engineering design," Vitaly Lopota said.
The project will cost hundreds of millions of dollars, Orbital Tehcnologies' CEO Sergei Kostenko said in late September, adding that Russian and U.S. investors have already been found.

Roscosmos PAO.

www.roscosmos.ru/main.php?id=2&nid=10547&lang=en

Danderman · « **Reply #18 on:** 10/20/2010 04:10 pm »

Orbital Technologies seems to have a YouTube site:

http://www.youtube.com/user/OrbTechnologies

that features a series of animations that show a space station completely different from the one on Orbital Technologies' own web site. This different space station is based on the standard Mir/Salyut bus, not the new Node module. So, the videos don't correspond to the graphics on the Orbital Technologies web site.

Danderman · « **Reply #19 on:** 10/24/2010 05:11 am »

OK, so which of the two different space station designs is this company actually going to develop?

Lars_J · « **Reply #20 on:** 10/24/2010 06:15 am »

Neither, I'm guessing. But if they do, it will probably be based on whatever leftover spare hardware Energia might gave left lying around.

sivodave · « **Reply #21 on:** 10/27/2010 10:03 pm »

one question: have they any customer yet? if you're going to invest money in building a space station (also if small) it's always a lot of money you're going to spend and therefore you have already to be sure that you'll have customers who need this service...otherwise they risk to put in orbit something that will never be used.

Stan Black · « **Reply #22 on:** 01/19/2011 07:39 pm »

http://www.rian.ru/video/20110119/323314411.html

Danderman · « **Reply #23 on:** 01/19/2011 08:03 pm »

Quote from: Stan Black on 01/19/2011 07:39 pm

http://www.rian.ru/video/20110119/323314411.html

It looks like the plan was to use the partially developed Node module with a Progress PAO as a free flying space station IF ISS were abandoned in 2015. Now that ISS is slated to continue past 2015, the only way this plan will work is if somehow somebody comes up with lots of rubles.

The graphics are better now in that they provide some indication of the scale of the vehicle, but they are still showing interior mockups of Service module class vehicles rather than the very cramped volume provided by the 3.3 meter Hub and 2.2 meter extension.

BTW, the video is on YouTube right here:

Danderman · « **Reply #24 on:** 08/18/2011 11:21 pm »

Quote from: yg1968 on 08/18/2011 05:21 pm

Here is another article and a video on this:
http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/thinking-tech/vacation-aboard-planned-space-hotel-to-cost-1-million-video/8218

This is not entirely vaporware, as the basic structure is based on the ISS Node Module.

corrodedNut · « **Reply #25 on:** 08/19/2011 05:09 pm »

Found some interior concept art:

http://orbitaltechnologies.ru/en/images-of-the-commercial-space-station.html

Jim · « **Reply #26 on:** 08/19/2011 05:27 pm »

That interior is so atypical of Russian spacecraft

Dmitry_V_home · « **Reply #27 on:** 08/19/2011 06:56 pm »

Quote from: Danderman on 10/04/2010 11:18 pm

The big question concerning this design for the Node/Commercial Space Station is the origin of the hardware used as the central node. It looks to have a diameter greater than 3 meters, but less than 4 meters, probably even less than 3.8 meters - so where did this come from? Its probably a propellant tank from some rocket, but what rocket has spherical tanks of this size that Energia would utilize?

May be oxidizer tank from the DM Block?

Joris · « **Reply #28 on:** 08/19/2011 07:11 pm »

Quote from: Jim on 08/19/2011 05:27 pm

That interior is so atypical of Russian spacecraft

Their is indeed a non-Russian distinction between the ceiling/floor and sidewalls, and it's way to smooth.

baldusi · « **Reply #29 on:** 08/19/2011 08:42 pm »

There was an interview with a world class Russian designer that was contracted for many government designs. He's done the interior of the Sukhoi SuperJet 100, the PTK concept, and it looks a lot like this design.

Danderman · « **Reply #30 on:** 08/20/2011 05:31 pm »

Here's the MAKS model of the Commercial Space Hotel, from the NK forum.

The entire mass of the hotel can't exceed 8 tons, even with the 3 ton PAO hanging off the back. This model was presented by Orbital Technologies, the first I have heard of them since last year.

Danderman · « **Reply #31 on:** 02/16/2015 05:11 pm »

It's back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sort of.

http://russianspaceweb.com/shm.html

fregate · « **Reply #32 on:** 02/19/2015 05:47 am »

Quote from: Danderman on 02/16/2015 05:11 pm

It's back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sort of.

http://russianspaceweb.com/shm.html

Let's wait till MAKS-2015 in August, but I could not see a reason why they could not launch a more disent module on Proton-M LV (with mass up to 22.5 tones on LEO)

Danderman · « **Reply #33 on:** 02/19/2015 03:13 pm »

The problem with using an airlock/docking module combination is if the airlock doors fail, the transport spacecraft is not available to the crew anymore.

Airlocks should not be placed between the return spacecraft and the main station, they should be located where if a hatch fails (as they have), there is no danger to the crew. This requires a secondary hatch, ie an inner compartment, as a backup, just like the Airlock module on the US segment.

Although there is discussion of this 8 ton design for some space expedition, it really isn't suitable for that function.