Author Topic: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site  (Read 234166 times)

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #160 on: 06/08/2011 11:13 PM »
I wonder if Mr Hale supports SLS?
You just might get an answer...:)
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
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Offline Wayne Hale

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Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #161 on: 06/09/2011 01:53 AM »
I don't believe that congressional aides should design rockets.  Nor should the OMB design rockets.  The leadership of the country needs to set goals, provide resources, and let the engineers do their job.  Heck, I'd hate to see the laws that most engineers would write.

Remember that Norm Augustine and his commission said that the (2009) NASA budget was not enough to do anything interesting and that an additional $3B per year would be required to have a significant national space program.  Anybody seen that money?  Did the President propose it?  Did the Congress appropriate it?

Commercial LEO transportation seems to be coming along, albeit slower than we would all like.  Exploration is going nowhere as far as I can tell.

Pity, that.

Offline DeanG1967

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Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #162 on: 06/09/2011 04:07 AM »
I don't believe that congressional aides should design rockets.  Nor should the OMB design rockets.  The leadership of the country needs to set goals, provide resources, and let the engineers do their job.  Heck, I'd hate to see the laws that most engineers would write.

Remember that Norm Augustine and his commission said that the (2009) NASA budget was not enough to do anything interesting and that an additional $3B per year would be required to have a significant national space program.  Anybody seen that money?  Did the President propose it?  Did the Congress appropriate it?

Commercial LEO transportation seems to be coming along, albeit slower than we would all like.  Exploration is going nowhere as far as I can tell.

Pity, that.

Can I start a Wayne for President?  I mean really...he speaks truth.  Trusts the right people.  I honest (brutely so which is good).

Who is with me?

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #163 on: 08/18/2011 08:49 AM »
http://waynehale.wordpress.com/2011/08/18/after-the-barn-burned-down/

Mr Hale quoting Churchill - that works :)

Quote
Then, as now, a number of folks propose that the current administration reverse the old administration’s decision to stop flying the shuttle.  But even in the summer of 2008, it was too late.  Not technically impossible, but already past the point of financial feasibility to resurrect the program.   Then I wrote “the horse has left the barn”.  Now the barn has burned down.

I know - from recent posts - that's going to annoy a number of SSP guys on here, so be careful with your reactions.

Offline psloss

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Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #164 on: 08/18/2011 12:33 PM »
http://waynehale.wordpress.com/2011/08/18/after-the-barn-burned-down/

Mr Hale quoting Churchill - that works :)

Quote
Then, as now, a number of folks propose that the current administration reverse the old administration’s decision to stop flying the shuttle.  But even in the summer of 2008, it was too late.  Not technically impossible, but already past the point of financial feasibility to resurrect the program.   Then I wrote “the horse has left the barn”.  Now the barn has burned down.

I know - from recent posts - that's going to annoy a number of SSP guys on here, so be careful with your reactions.
I thought he also wrote what several people here have written:

Quote
The plan, such as it is, consists of looking for the entrepreneurial heirs of Henry Ford to produce the Model T.  The hope is the genius of free enterprise will move us from the horse and buggy era to the gasoline alley era of space exploration.  That is a good hope, but in the meantime personally, I would have kept the horse until the automobile appeared.

My emphasis -- and I agree.

I also find the blog post looking more at the post-Shuttle mess in front of "us" than the proverbial barn we just burned to the ground.
« Last Edit: 08/18/2011 12:39 PM by psloss »

Offline Wayne Hale

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Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #165 on: 08/18/2011 02:33 PM »
My point being, we are where we are; regrettable, but true.  My essay is not so much about how we got here, its about what do we do about it.

The diaspora of experienced, trained aerospace professionals is regrettable but has the one redeming virtue of populating the newspace  companies with expertise they desperately need to succeed.

As far as the SLS and visiting asteroids?  Nice idea, timeline is too long, cost is too high.  We need to start exploring deep space sooner rather than later and that pragmatically means using existing infrastructure (or small modifications of it) rather than clean sheet designs.

Ugly is ugly forever, but pursuing engineering perfection is the road to cancellation.

 


Offline jnc

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Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #166 on: 08/18/2011 03:00 PM »
Ugly is ugly forever, but pursuing engineering perfection is the road to cancellation.

Great line - that's going in my hall of engineering aphorisms. So that I may properly credit it, is that an original, or are you quoting?

Noel
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Offline Wayne Hale

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Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #167 on: 08/18/2011 03:03 PM »
Not exactly a quotation, but definitely not original with me either.

Ugly can change I guess, evolved systems sometimes become a thing of beauty.

Offline Pedantic Twit

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Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #168 on: 08/18/2011 03:15 PM »
Ugly is ugly forever, but pursuing engineering perfection is the road to cancellation.

Great line - that's going in my hall of engineering aphorisms. So that I may properly credit it, is that an original, or are you quoting?

Noel

Voltaire put it quite succinctly  ;)

Perfect is the enemy of good.

Offline DaveJSC

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Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #169 on: 08/18/2011 03:21 PM »


I know - from recent posts - that's going to annoy a number of SSP guys on here, so be careful with your reactions.

In that case, I'll decide not to comment about that "burnt down barn" analogy. Other than it is a poor choice of words.

Offline jnc

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Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #170 on: 08/18/2011 03:22 PM »
Not exactly a quotation, but definitely not original with me either.

Ah, OK. I know similar thoughts have been uttered before, about how one has to carefully thread between that particular Scylla and Charybdis, I just liked the flow and pithiness of your particular version.

Noel
"America Needs - Space to Grow"

(old bumper sticker)

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #171 on: 09/06/2011 02:42 AM »
Latest is a link to the AAAS round table video, which includes Mr Hale.

http://waynehale.wordpress.com/2011/09/06/the-future-of-nasa/

Currently watching, very interesting so far.

Online rdale

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Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #172 on: 09/06/2011 12:27 PM »
Thanks for the bump - I had checked it when the link was private so ignored future posts about it. Cool stuff!

Offline Lars_J

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Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #173 on: 09/07/2011 04:41 AM »
Thanks for the link! A very enjoyable viewing, and good discussion.

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #174 on: 09/20/2011 11:47 PM »
Latest is up:

http://waynehale.wordpress.com/2011/09/20/the-school-of-hard-knocks/

With reference to the recent failures.

Offline Alpha Control

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Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #175 on: 09/20/2011 11:59 PM »
That was a great read.  Being honest and admitting your mistake is tough to do in the short run, but is certainly the best way to go for the long run.
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Offline robertross

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Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #176 on: 09/21/2011 12:04 AM »
Latest is up:

http://waynehale.wordpress.com/2011/09/20/the-school-of-hard-knocks/

With reference to the recent failures.

again, words of wisdom.

(been there, done that in my line of work)
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Offline DT1

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Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #177 on: 09/23/2011 09:15 PM »
Latest is up:

http://waynehale.wordpress.com/2011/09/20/the-school-of-hard-knocks/

With reference to the recent failures.

again, words of wisdom.

(been there, done that in my line of work)

As somebody who is working in the business of rocket engine testing for nearly 15 years now I can only confirm this!
An example of this is also given in the Apollo 9 episode of "From the Earth to the Moon" when an engineer reports to Tom Kelly that a Lunar Module ground test failed due to his wrong calculations...
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Offline GoForTLI

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Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #178 on: 09/24/2011 01:06 AM »
Quote
In the high risk, high energy, low margin endeavor that is spaceflight, no matter how hard you try, little things are going to go wrong.  What you hope is to learn the lesson before the little things grow into big things.

Well written, as always!
There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. -- Douglas Adams

Offline Silmfeanor

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Re: Wayne Hale sets up his own blog site
« Reply #179 on: 10/27/2011 03:33 PM »
I reread the "slow trainwreck for commercial " post, and was struck by the description of the requirements for a spacecraft.

Quote
NASA must change or this effort will fail.  I am reminded that the US Military’s requirements for its first airplane ran 2 and ˝ pages; and the requirements for the NASA’s Gemini capsule ran about two dozen pages.  Simple, straightforward requirements and the flexibility to use good industry based standards could allow commercial space flight to be as successful as those programs or the NASA Launch Services program.  But we are not on that path.


What is it that NASA requires at this time from commercial companies - can I read up on the evolution of requirements from the 12 page to what we currently have? Could it be feasible to try to request a current-day-and-age spacecraft within 12 pages? If not, why not?

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