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Copenhagen Suborbital
by
Diagoras
on 22 Aug, 2010 18:44
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Not sure if this is the place to put this as these guys don't quite seem "commercial" - more like overgrown hobbyists. I heard about the through some friends on Reddit - apparently the Net has been all over these guys.
http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com/Apparently they have a floating launch platform which they plan to tow out to sea in a homemade submarine (not making this up) in order to send a human into a suborbital flight. First launch is scheduled in seven days time.
Anyone heard of them before? Willing to give them chances? Apparently the Danish government has been quite cooperative which surprises me.
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#1
by
Silmfeanor
on 22 Aug, 2010 20:02
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They are indeed a bunch of hobbyists, working on al kinds of cool projects. They have a homemade submarine as you said, which is fully functioning. Their rockets are a serious notch over 99% of hobbyists though - As you can see on their front page, they plan to launch a serious rocket on a suborbital launch in 7 days.
This hobby group is seriously underrated - this launch is only a few days away, and I would not be suprised at all if they make it without a flaw.
Imagine the milestone - group of hobbyists making a succesfull suborbital rocket with a human passenger, topping 100 km height.
I have only my best wishes for these guys, been following them for a while.
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#2
by
rklaehn
on 22 Aug, 2010 20:14
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They are indeed a bunch of hobbyists, working on al kinds of cool projects. They have a homemade submarine as you said, which is fully functioning. Their rockets are a serious notch over 99% of hobbyists though - As you can see on their front page, they plan to launch a serious rocket on a suborbital launch in 7 days.
The way I read it, they are planning to launch a vehicle that is capable of launching a human in principle. But they will first do several unmanned test flights before actually putting somebody in it.
They seem to have a similar approach to armadillo aerospace: first get something working, then think about performance.
They had a test of their hybrid propulsion system which showed truly horrible combustion efficiency. But it seems that they are OK with that since they want to get something off the ground first and optimize it later.
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#3
by
Silmfeanor
on 22 Aug, 2010 20:24
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The way I read it, they are planning to launch a vehicle that is capable of launching a human in principle. But they will first do several unmanned test flights before actually putting somebody in it.
They seem to have a similar approach to armadillo aerospace: first get something working, then think about performance.
They had a test of their hybrid propulsion system which showed truly horrible combustion efficiency. But it seems that they are OK with that since they want to get something off the ground first and optimize it later.
You are correct, but I think that, since this is a hobbyist orginazation, is the correct way to approach the problem. They rely on donations, and a launch is a very strong incentive to attract more donations and attention. The people like to tinker more then they like to sit in meeting rooms, and that certainly is a better option with a group like this.
But remember, they made a submarine, a working one. This is a group with serious plans - if they added a second stage on this rocket of theirs (after it is optimized ) I can imagine perhaps getting a small cubesat into orbit?
edit: here is their submarine. Videos of test firings of their rockets are on the site itself.
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#4
by
Silmfeanor
on 23 Aug, 2010 10:55
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I found some new information about them through a slashdot link -
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/08/23/0325225and a SA forum with posts from the people themselves
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3271649( user frumpykvetchbot )
some qoutes:
The flight configuration being loaded now is a "short stack" with the crash test dummy strapped in to the Tycho Brahe spacecraft in its current form with the completed heat shield, glass dome and aerospike. The spacecraft is attached to its own parachute module beneath it, which is mated loosely (for in-flight retro-rocket assisted separation) to the nearly identical parachute module of the booster stack which consists of a half-length oxidizer and pressurization tank assembly (newly built - thanks gypsy scrap thieves you're really helping you know) on top of the modified booster which has 4 fins with rollerons. We'll have two downlink video streams and two-way data to both booster and spaceship.
With the launch we're about to perform, we expect a quite low peak altitude for the spacecraft, with only about 15 seconds of active thrust. The goal is to test and validate engine performance, telemetry and radio systems, pyros, chutes, recovery and as many aspects of the whole thing as possible.
If all goes well, the plan and hope is that by next summer we should be able to fly the long stack with a full-length and fully loaded oxidizer tank (with hydrogen peroxide instead of LOX) and some Scud- or V2-like graphite or carbon-carbon steerable baffles in the exhaust stream for active guidance, and a gas-powered RCS system in the Tycho Brahe parachute module.
Tycho Brahe has been found to be too small to probably ever fly with real people. For one thing, the head of our poor crash test dummy can't fit in there with his helmet on. On top of the Heat-E1 which is the first plausibly man-rated booster in our schedule, we'll need to put a ø800mm spacecraft instead of the current ø640mm design. It'll still only support a nearly vertical crew posture but hopefully slightly less so. Everything we learn from flying Tycho Brahe will go into building the real man-rated spacecraft.
and mods please move this if this is the inappropriate forum for it. Suborbital thread perhaps?
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#5
by
Danderman
on 23 Aug, 2010 16:16
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OK, I'll bite, why do they need a submarine to tow the rocket and platform out to sea?
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#6
by
Silmfeanor
on 23 Aug, 2010 16:31
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OK, I'll bite, why do they need a submarine to tow the rocket and platform out to sea?
Well, they own it and so they only have to pay for its fuel - Remember, this is a group of 15 or so volunteers, perhaps 3-4 fulltime members relying entirely on donations. I can imagine that chartering a ship just for this purpose is a bit too much for them.
Also, it just looks so cool. A homemade sub pulling a homemade rocket that will be fitted to be manrated. woah.
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#7
by
brtbrt
on 23 Aug, 2010 19:11
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OK, I'll bite, why do they need a submarine to tow the rocket and platform out to sea?
Well, they own it and so they only have to pay for its fuel - Remember, this is a group of 15 or so volunteers, perhaps 3-4 fulltime members relying entirely on donations. I can imagine that chartering a ship just for this purpose is a bit too much for them.
Also, it just looks so cool. A homemade sub pulling a homemade rocket that will be fitted to be manrated. woah.
And also, if they launch while submerged below the catamaran launch platform, water would provide a lot of protection in case of a CATO.
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#8
by
dantdbv
on 23 Aug, 2010 21:31
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The tittle says it all. Oh i'm so exited, i have only just discovered this.
The Copenhagen Suborbitals group, a Danish nonprofit group will attempt the launch of the first of 3 testflights of the Heat X booster and Tycho Brahe micro spaceship on 30 August in the hope that it will be possible to launch the 4 into space with a man on board. There is more information available on the following link.
http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com/index.phpGreetings
DanTDBV
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#9
by
kch
on 23 Aug, 2010 21:37
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#10
by
dantdbv
on 23 Aug, 2010 21:49
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Thank you kch
I did a search on Copenhagen Suborbital and it turned up nothing.
Have a nice day
DanTDBV
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#11
by
dninness
on 24 Aug, 2010 14:11
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Very interesting that they're using an aerospike. The 3D models look like a Trident missile (coupled with their use of the sub, well.. cue the jokes about not worrying about Iran anymore...).
Nifty. The Trident's use of the aerospike was supposed to increase the range by 550km. Could be very handy even in a smaller scale situation like this.
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#12
by
mr. mark
on 24 Aug, 2010 15:00
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Ok, no one has every flown in a spacecraft shaped like a human torpedo. I'm not even sure if studies have been done on how the body can withstand the forces in such a configuration. I find the whole project reckless, similar to attaching a person to the outside of a 747 with a pressure suit on. Yes, it could be done but in God's name WHY? This reminds me of that Snake River Canyon jump back in the 70's. We know how that went. At least, Evel came out alive. I'm not sure the passenger of this would though.
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#13
by
Silmfeanor
on 24 Aug, 2010 15:43
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Ok, no one has every flown in a spacecraft shaped like a human torpedo. I'm not even sure if studies have been done on how the body can withstand the forces in such a configuration. I find the whole project reckless, similar to attaching a person to the outside of a 747 with a pressure suit on. Yes, it could be done but in God's name WHY? This reminds me of that Snake River Canyon jump back in the 70's. We know how that went. At least, Evel came out alive. I'm not sure the passenger of this would though.
No reason not to try the new torpedo shape. Dont forget that it'll be dummys for the first 3 flights. They already posted that they will increase diameter from 640mm to 800mm or somewhere in that ballpark - that'll make the seating wider.
The project IS reckless, and that is exactly what it should be. How cool is it to launch a human suborbital for way less then a million bucks? Why not try it? I mean, you could ask them the same about their submarine - why would you be so reckless to build a submarine? I suspect it is because people actually like to be involved and help with these sorts of projects. If I lived there I certainly would help them in my free time!
Also, I donated a small sum. a worthy cause, imho.
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#14
by
bad_astra
on 24 Aug, 2010 16:14
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This reminds me of that Snake River Canyon jump back in the 70's. We know how that went.
Evil Knievel had the world record on altitude and distance for a private rocket vehicle for a couple of decades until SpaceShipOne.
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#15
by
Alpha_Centauri
on 24 Aug, 2010 16:31
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Ok, no one has every flown in a spacecraft shaped like a human torpedo. I'm not even sure if studies have been done on how the body can withstand the forces in such a configuration.
Yes I was thinking that when I saw it, there is a very good reason why pretty much every manned capsule I can think of uses the "back to the ground" orientation.
That being said I wish them luck, and frankly launching stuff and not caring so much about the risks is how hobby-groups survive. No one's going to support you if it just remains a paper rocket, you can always improve it later.
This one slipped under the radar, hadn't heard about it til a few days ago.
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#16
by
mr. mark
on 24 Aug, 2010 16:37
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I beleve every person's life has value. What can be gained by this? Certainly nothing of scientific value. I'm not even sure this has commercial value. This reminds me of the guy in the circus being blow out of a cannon but, at least he had a net. When NASA launches people into space, there is a clear objective and all risks have been weighed. Certain safety precautions have to be maintained. The same will eventually go for Virgin Galactic when they take passengers to suborbital space and Spacex when they take clients to orbit. I'm sorry but this reminds me of the crazy experiments that the Germans did at the end of world war two. Kind of like the Bachem Ba349 rocket glider that launched vertically. It crashed in trials killing the test pilot.
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#17
by
Alpha_Centauri
on 24 Aug, 2010 16:51
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I beleve every person's life has value.
And every person has the right to do what they want with that life........
But lets not get melodramatic here, the first tests are going to be unmanned anyway, and it sounds like they plan to improve/modify the vehicle upon completion of the tests anyway.
There wasn't a lot of scientific value to the Mercury programme either. Why should they have bothered, the Soviets already did it right?
In fact why should any alt-space group bother?
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#18
by
rklaehn
on 24 Aug, 2010 16:52
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I beleve every person's life has value. What can be gained by this? Certainly nothing of scientific value. I'm not even sure this has commercial value. This reminds me of the guy in the circus being blow out of a cannon but, at least he had a net. When NASA launches people into space, there is a clear objective and all risks have been weighed. Certain safety precautions have to be maintained. The same will eventually go for Virgin Galactic when they take passengers to suborbital space and Spacex when they take clients to orbit. I'm sorry but this reminds me of the crazy experiments that the Germans did at the end of world war two. Kind of like the Bachem Ba349 rocket glider that launched vertically. It crashed in trials killing the test pilot.
It's an amateur effort. It does not have to have scientific or commercial value. What scientific value has building a homebuilt submarine? Or climbing mt. everest? As long as nobody is forced to fly on that thing, I don't see a problem.
Fighter pilots routinely have to survive several gees in a sitting position without blacking out and have to make live and death decisions seconds after. So while the seating position is certainly uncomfortable and unconventional, I don't see why it should kill or harm the passenger as long as he wears a
g-suit.
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#19
by
Alpha_Centauri
on 24 Aug, 2010 17:01
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Fighter pilots routinely have to survive several gees in a sitting position without blacking out and have to make live and death decisions seconds after. So while the seating position is certainly uncomfortable and unconventional, I don't see why it should kill or harm the passenger as long as he wears a g-suit.
It isn't so much the g-force at lift off, though I'd still be surprised if that engine can have the performance to get to 100km but stay below 3-g, but more so re-entry. It looks as of they plan to have a side re-entry i.e "back-facing-ground" but the parachute is mounted at the top.
Sounds like scrambled eggs to me......
In fact why should any alt-space group bother?