SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates

[Patchouli]

Space planes aren't meant to go places.  They're meant for entry cross-range.  Period.  Engineering is about requirements.  Form follows function.  Anything else is suboptimized.  Engineers prefer the most elegant solution, not the best looking one.

That's a bit over simplified as LM preferred a lifting body and only went to a ballistic capsule because of NASA's insistence.
It's very surprising they won the Orion contract instead of Boeing as Boeing's vehicle was more along the lines of what Orion became.

Though in some ways the LM cev is more like a capsule in that it does make use of a separate mission module.

In this way Dragon acts more like a space plane as most of it's major systems stay with the reentry vehicle.

[mr. mark]

Thought this was about COTS 1 not about lifting bodies. Anyone have any specifics yet on when launch window is scheduled for Tuesday?

[Patchouli]

Thought this was about COTS 1 not about lifting bodies. Anyone have any specifics yet on when launch window is scheduled for Tuesday?

9:03 a.m. to 12:22 p.m. EST
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2010/nov/HQ_M10-168_SpaceX_Launch.html

[tigerade]

Thought this was about COTS 1 not about lifting bodies. Anyone have any specifics yet on when launch window is scheduled for Tuesday?

9:03 a.m. to 12:22 p.m. EST
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2010/nov/HQ_M10-168_SpaceX_Launch.html

I usually sleep in much later than that.  Looks like I'll be setting my alarm on Tuesday.   

I don't care if it ends up being delayed.  I can't miss this launch!

[MP99]

Post moved over from the Flight 2 Static Fire Live thread (with extra quoting), as off-topic over there:-

Oops - deleted by mistake.

Can someone send me a copy from their subscribed mail??? Thanks!

cheers, Martin

[MP99]

Thought this was about COTS 1 not about lifting bodies. Anyone have any specifics yet on when launch window is scheduled for Tuesday?

9:03 a.m. to 12:22 p.m. EST
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2010/nov/HQ_M10-168_SpaceX_Launch.html

Re above post:-

This is the first of three test launches currently planned in the Falcon 9 test flight series. It is intended as a demonstration mission to prove key capabilities such as launch, structural integrity of the Dragon spacecraft, on-orbit operation, re-entry, descent and splashdown in the Pacific Ocean.

cheers, Martin

[arnezami]

I believe SpaceX have a COTS-C contract, right? Or do they have a combined COTS-B + COTS-C contract?

If the return trip fails (but does no harm to anyone) I guess it's a good demo from a COTS-B perspective:

Capability B: Internal cargo delivery and disposal. Capability B delivers cargo (payloads) that operate within a volume maintained at normal atmospheric pressure to a LEO test bed and safely disposes cargo.

But probably not from a COTS-C perspective:

Capability C: Internal cargo delivery and return. Capability C delivers cargo (payloads) that operate within a volume maintained at normal atmospheric pressure to a LEO test bed and safely returns cargo.

link

[joshcryer]

I believe SpaceX have a COTS-C contract, right? Or do they have a combined COTS-B + COTS-C contract?

100% correct. They have COTS-A-C, which means that they don't have to successfully reenter on this try, indeed, they won't be required until they do Demo-3 (COTS-C).

However, it goes without saying that of course they will want to successfully reenter on all three tries.

edit: plus SpaceX could always do with a free Dragon module. The more the merrier (if they can successfully return all of their Dragon modules they will have 15 Dragon modules paid for by the taxpayer; NASA does not want reused Dragon modules).

[Chris Bergin]

Just so the new people are aware about how we do these events, we'll be starting a new thread for Tuesday's launch attempt, in the same way as we did with the static fire.

[joshcryer]

Thanks for the heads up Chris, I was going to ask that but didn't want to ask a help desk type question and just was going to wait and see.

[Antares]

I guess, but that is not what Antares was talking about.  He suggested that failing to recover Dragon would affect payments for delivering cargo.  Which doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Y'all are kidding, right?  You think NASA is going to happily continue on the schedule of the next two Demos and then the operational missions if there's a major anomaly on this one?  Dragon is the only downmass available after STS ends.  (shakes head)

[Plasursci]

Y'all are kidding, right?  You think NASA is going to happily continue on the schedule of the next two Demos and then the operational missions if there's a major anomaly on this one?  Dragon is the only downmass available after STS ends.  (shakes head)

Only a single major anomaly? Yes, I think it's quite possible that NASA would happily continue with the next two demonstrations, as long as the anomaly is not too far out of scope of the sorts of issues that commonly occur in new spacecraft buses.

If the Falcon reaches orbit and the tests verify that Dragon's in-space capabilities meet the requirements for one-way resupply missions with few hiccups, I will personally be impressed and happy, even if it fails to return. I suspect the COTS office would be reasonably happy with such a result, too. (I'd obviously still expect jeers from those without an understanding of engineering or of aerospace flight testing, and I'd expect expressions of Schadenfreude from some with conflicting interests, but I don't think they'll have many more opportunities for much Freude.)

Now, if a postmortem indicates a constellation of major anomalies—an Apollo 1– or Soyuz 1–scale exposition of sloppy engineering—I will be concerned. The magnitude of the spectacle of the failure won't indicate that, however. It could tumble wildly out of control in orbit or careen to a Genesis-style splashdown and still be an otherwise well-designed spacecraft.

NASA understands that flight testing can (and probably will) expose problems that need to be corrected. If we thought we could completely verify the requirements on the ground, we wouldn't even bother with the demonstration flights—we'd proceed directly to cargo resupply.

[Hauerg]

I guess, but that is not what Antares was talking about.  He suggested that failing to recover Dragon would affect payments for delivering cargo.  Which doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Y'all are kidding, right?  You think NASA is going to happily continue on the schedule of the next two Demos and then the operational missions if there's a major anomaly on this one?  Dragon is the only downmass available after STS ends.  (shakes head)

You answer your own question: STS will be gone and NASA does not have a lot of options. And before COTS there was no option (to Soyuz) at all.

[Avron]

I guess, but that is not what Antares was talking about.  He suggested that failing to recover Dragon would affect payments for delivering cargo.  Which doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Y'all are kidding, right?  You think NASA is going to happily continue on the schedule of the next two Demos and then the operational missions if there's a major anomaly on this one?  Dragon is the only downmass available after STS ends.  (shakes head)

You answer your own question: STS will be gone and NASA does not have a lot of options. And before COTS there was no option (to Soyuz) at all.

I also don't see any other option that to continue, even on a Major malfunction.. the stats, say that there must be one.. if you try the risk is there.. if you are in this business or any other that takes on risks this level, then I cannot see why one would not continue to support the efforts.. its make in the USA and I can see that been the prime driver shortly..

Now ATK will need to be covered as well.. but that's another discussion...

[SpacexULA]

Y'all are kidding, right?  You think NASA is going to happily continue on the schedule of the next two Demos and then the operational missions if there's a major anomaly on this one?  Dragon is the only downmass available after STS ends.  (shakes head)

I thought there was a basic sliding scale off success and outcomes possible for spacex on this launch.

Perfect Launch/Perfect inorbit performance/Perfect recovery: Very likely COTS2/3 combination
Perfect Launch/perfect inorbit perfornace/non recovery: possbile COTS2/3 combination
Pefect Launch/non perfect inorbit performance (but completes goals of COTS1): Cots 2 & 3 stay seperate fligths
Offnominal launch or falure to complete COTS1 goals, repeat of COTS1

Am I way off here?

[Rhyshaelkan]

Thought this was about COTS 1 not about lifting bodies. Anyone have any specifics yet on when launch window is scheduled for Tuesday?

9:03 a.m. to 12:22 p.m. EST
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2010/nov/HQ_M10-168_SpaceX_Launch.html

I usually sleep in much later than that.  Looks like I'll be setting my alarm on Tuesday.   

I don't care if it ends up being delayed.  I can't miss this launch!

Yupper I work third shift. But I wanted to know the window so that I did not miss the launch. Due to living through Challenger and Columbia, there is always a rush of anxiety and hope that accompanies a launch. Watching it recorded loses that feeling

Go SpaceX!

[tigerade]

Yupper I work third shift. But I wanted to know the window so that I did not miss the launch. Due to living through Challenger and Columbia, there is always a rush of anxiety and hope that accompanies a launch. Watching it recorded loses that feeling

Go SpaceX!

Yeah I work 2nd shift here.  I usually get up bright and early at 2pm each day.   

However, I will be getting up much earlier on Tuesday!  It will be awesome to see the Falcon 9 fly again, however it will be even better if we get footage of Dragon's re-entry later on.  Does anyone know if the Dragon is equipped with a camera like in the drop test?  If so, it would be awesome to see it return to Earth.

[Jim]

Y'all are kidding, right?  You think NASA is going to happily continue on the schedule of the next two Demos and then the operational missions if there's a major anomaly on this one?  Dragon is the only downmass available after STS ends.  (shakes head)

Only a single major anomaly? Yes, I think it's quite possible that NASA would happily continue with the next two demonstrations, as long as the anomaly is not too far out of scope of the sorts of issues that commonly occur in new spacecraft buses.

If the Falcon reaches orbit and the tests verify that Dragon's in-space capabilities meet the requirements for one-way resupply missions with few hiccups, I will personally be impressed and happy, even if it fails to return. I suspect the COTS office would be reasonably happy with such a result, too. (I'd obviously still expect jeers from those without an understanding of engineering or of aerospace flight testing, and I'd expect expressions of Schadenfreude from some with conflicting interests, but I don't think they'll have many more opportunities for much Freude.)

Now, if a postmortem indicates a constellation of major anomalies—an Apollo 1– or Soyuz 1–scale exposition of sloppy engineering—I will be concerned. The magnitude of the spectacle of the failure won't indicate that, however. It could tumble wildly out of control in orbit or careen to a Genesis-style splashdown and still be an otherwise well-designed spacecraft.

NASA understands that flight testing can (and probably will) expose problems that need to be corrected. If we thought we could completely verify the requirements on the ground, we wouldn't even bother with the demonstration flights—we'd proceed directly to cargo resupply.

You don't know where Antares works or has worked.  You don't understand NASA

[beancounter]

 I guess it will depend on what the anomoly is as to how critical it will be to future demo flights and NASA's response.
I'll go with an pretty much perfect flight but I know that the stat's are not on SpaceX's side.  However just 'cause they aren't, doesn't mean that SpaceX will fail.  They beat the stat's last time around, even with a couple of issues, so they could do it again.
All the best SpaceX.
BTW, launch window starts at 3.03am Wednesday morning where I am.  Early to bed for me, 

[TOG]

It will be awesome to see the Falcon 9 fly again, however it will be even better if we get footage of Dragon's re-entry later on.  Does anyone know if the Dragon is equipped with a camera like in the drop test?  If so, it would be awesome to see it return to Earth.

Very much looking forward to seeing AS MUCH AS WE POSSIBLY CAN!!!  But I was wondering - will SpaceX be putting up any live cargo?  Perhaps some mice and bugs?  If not, how will they test the internal pressure integrity of the Dragon?

Oh, and Santa, I want LOTS AND LOTS of PICTURES!  And a Successful Falcon 9 launch!  And Live coverage of the Successful Splashdown of the Dragon Capsule!  Please?