SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates

[jabe]

anyone check the hd vid from the link given on the press kit?  really see the green flash from the engine start up..great sound too
hope the "rip" in the nozzle isn't a deal breaker for a launch before saturday..
cheers
jb.

[joshcryer]

Chris, I'll try to not post redundant stuff from now on (like Twitter updates, unless I'm sure they're new info, etc), but you did beat SFN by about ten minutes, even with you being out and all. Thanks again. Looks like they could make Wednesday after all.

/signs off to help reduce the noise, knows his contributions are minimal at best

[Kabloona]

Chris, I'll try to not post redundant stuff from now on (like Twitter updates, unless I'm sure they're new info, etc), but you did beat SFN by about ten minutes, even with you being out and all. Thanks again. Looks like they could make Wednesday after all.

/signs off to help reduce the noise, knows his contributions are minimal at best

Make that two of us 

[jongoff]

The most likely path forward is that we will trim off the thinnest portion of the nozzle extension, which is where the cracks are located, perform a thorough systems check and resume launch preparation.

Both from SpaceX.

Aha...the old 5-axis hand mill solution.

(Also known as an intern with a Dremel)

(laughed so hard at that one...)

Me too.  I'd hate to be the person who had to trim say an inch off of a 9ft thin-wall nozzle...without causing more damage...

~Jon

[nblackwell]

1. This flight doesn't overfly Europe.
2. You don't think Shuttle actually meets the FAA expected casualty requirements when they fly over Europe, do you?

Why is everyone dancing around it.  A process broke down.  Similar to something on the first F1 flight.

Agreed Jim - fair amount of dancing going on here in several areas:   Political favoritism, low transparency on the part of SpaceX, pressure on the Range to make exceptions for SpaceX which are not granted to EELV or Shuttle, FAA waiver for Europe flyover, increased funding - during hard times in Washington - and I am sure there are other areas which you point out related to processing which you obviously have a lot of experience in.  This list is just a guess based on comments I've read here on L-2 so I could be wrong but I do see a lot of dancing going on.

Obviously SpaceX is getting a special deal out of WDC for now which is OK as we need them for ISS and I wish them the very best.  Poor planning on the part of congress over the years has caused a gap that has placed SpaceX in a challenging position to bail out part of the gap. 

Also I admire a man who puts up his own real cash to attempt to build a viable space program and he and his team has made very good progress in a short amount of time. 

So the reality is there is a lot of dancing going on and if I were in their shoes with the pressure WDC has placed on them maybe we all would be doing similar things.  All one has to do is watch the SpaceX team in their press conferences to realize how much pressure they are under. 

Whether folks like it or not the US needs SpaceX for now and thus the reason NASA was managing our expectations today by saying this is test program and they expect problems and they will continue to support SpaceX no matter what happens to the next two test flights. 

[robertross]

anyone check the hd vid from the link given on the press kit?  really see the green flash from the engine start up..great sound too
hope the "rip" in the nozzle isn't a deal breaker for a launch before saturday..
cheers
jb.

Actually missed that!! Thanks for pointing it out.

Very cool!
That sound at the end...is that metal contraction from being so hot and now cooling down? Or is it some mechanical device?

[Lee Jay]

Me too.  I'd hate to be the person who had to trim say an inch off of a 9ft thin-wall nozzle...without causing more damage...

~Jon

To your hand and arm too.  And a lot of wheels or drums will give their all for the cause too.

[Kabloona]

Anyone wishing to have a good read on Niobium's history & use in rocket nozzles:

http://www.cbmm.com.br/portug/sources/techlib/science_techno/table_content/sub_3/images/pdfs/016.pdf

Robert, interesting paper. Too bad it doesn't have a tutorial section on machining niobium nozzles with a Dremel.

Does anyone have a link to a description of the nozzle mfg process? I couldn't find a description on the SpaceX site.

[alexw]

The most likely path forward is that we will trim off the thinnest portion of the nozzle extension, which is where the cracks are located, perform a thorough systems check and resume launch preparation.
Both from SpaceX.

Aha...the old 5-axis hand mill solution. (Also known as an intern with a Dremel)

(laughed so hard at that one...)

Me too.  I'd hate to be the person who had to trim say an inch off of a 9ft thin-wall nozzle...without causing more damage...

   ROFL. Roughing out niobium with a none-too-sharp blade was not my favorite time on the bandsaw. Hope they have plenty of dremel tips. And another intern with a good vacuum wand. (And, following Lee Jay's remark, a massage therapist!)
     -Alex

edit: typo name

[KSC Engineer]

1. This flight doesn't overfly Europe.
2. You don't think Shuttle actually meets the FAA expected casualty requirements when they fly over Europe, do you?

I was just going on what Jay Barbree and Ms Shotwell said today.  Jay asked if they had to get a special approval to fly at that inclination over Europe and she said basically the FAA approved their flight orbits.   So you are saying that they are not flying over Europe and Jay is wrong?

[nblackwell]

For ISS flights, F9/Dragon would go over Europe, but not for this one.  So yes, Jay was wrong.  And Gwynne was right, FAA did approve the orbit, although she didn't correct him on the spot.

1. This flight doesn't overfly Europe.
2. You don't think Shuttle actually meets the FAA expected casualty requirements when they fly over Europe, do you?

I was just going on what Jay Barbree and Ms Shotwell said today.  Jay asked if they had to get a special approval to fly at that inclination over Europe and she said basically the FAA approved their flight orbits.   So you are saying that they are not flying over Europe and Jay is wrong?

[Jim]

low transparency on the part of SpaceX, pressure on the Range to make exceptions for SpaceX which are not granted to EELV or Shuttle, FAA waiver for Europe flyover

1.  They cant be transparent to LSP, they wont get a contract if they are
2.  Range gave them no special exceptions
3.  European flyover is not new.  Mars Odssey, STSS Demo did it

[KSC Engineer]

low transparency on the part of SpaceX, pressure on the Range to make exceptions for SpaceX which are not granted to EELV or Shuttle, FAA waiver for Europe flyover

1.  They cant be transparent to LSP, they wont get a contract if they are
2.  Range gave them no special exceptions
3.  European flyover is not new.  Mars Odssey, STSS Demo did it

Thanks Jim.  That is good to know.  So they are flying over Europe so Jay's question was not well formed but factual.  I take it since you didn't list "political favoritism" you accept that as a given?

[Jim]

low transparency on the part of SpaceX, pressure on the Range to make exceptions for SpaceX which are not granted to EELV or Shuttle, FAA waiver for Europe flyover

1.  They cant be transparent to LSP, they wont get a contract if they are
2.  Range gave them no special exceptions
3.  European flyover is not new.  Mars Odssey, STSS Demo did it

Thanks Jim.  That is good to know.  So they are flying over Europe so Jay's question was not well formed but factual.  I take it since you didn't list "political favoritism" you accept that as a given?

I don't see any of that either

As for overflight, I don't know if this specific flight is doing it

[KSC Engineer]

low transparency on the part of SpaceX, pressure on the Range to make exceptions for SpaceX which are not granted to EELV or Shuttle, FAA waiver for Europe flyover

1.  They cant be transparent to LSP, they wont get a contract if they are
2.  Range gave them no special exceptions
3.  European flyover is not new.  Mars Odssey, STSS Demo did it

Thanks Jim.  That is good to know.  So they are flying over Europe so Jay's question was not well formed but factual.  I take it since you didn't list "political favoritism" you accept that as a given?

I don't see any of that either

As for overflight, I don't know if this specific flight is doing it

You should know...so that is good.  So processing in your view is the only area of concern?   Was that your point about dancing in your post?

[nblackwell]

Inclination as given in the press kit is 34.5 deg.  European overflight seems...unlikely.

low transparency on the part of SpaceX, pressure on the Range to make exceptions for SpaceX which are not granted to EELV or Shuttle, FAA waiver for Europe flyover

1.  They cant be transparent to LSP, they wont get a contract if they are
2.  Range gave them no special exceptions
3.  European flyover is not new.  Mars Odssey, STSS Demo did it

Thanks Jim.  That is good to know.  So they are flying over Europe so Jay's question was not well formed but factual.  I take it since you didn't list "political favoritism" you accept that as a given?

[KSC Engineer]

Inclination as given in the press kit is 34.5 deg.  European overflight seems...unlikely.

low transparency on the part of SpaceX, pressure on the Range to make exceptions for SpaceX which are not granted to EELV or Shuttle, FAA waiver for Europe flyover

1.  They cant be transparent to LSP, they wont get a contract if they are
2.  Range gave them no special exceptions
3.  European flyover is not new.  Mars Odssey, STSS Demo did it

Thanks Jim.  That is good to know.  So they are flying over Europe so Jay's question was not well formed but factual.  I take it since you didn't list "political favoritism" you accept that as a given?

Thanks for clearing that up.  Jay Barbree is usually pretty good with his research.  I guess he missed this one or knows something we don't.

[Jim]

You should know...so that is good.  So processing in your view is the only area of concern?   Was that your point about dancing in your post?

I was referring to people on this forum dancing around the point.    There processes (more than just ground ops) is my area of concern

[rdale]

Jay Barbree is usually pretty good with his research.

That may have been the case back in the 80's, but if you listen to his questions at any shuttle pressers you'll quickly realize he isn't as up to par on what's really happening in space anymore.

[FinalFrontier]

Well this was too bad that they didn't launch on schedule. At the same time I am much more happy to learn that they stopped in order to correct a problem, though minor, found near the end of closeout operations. I think it shows a mark of quality that they caught it and stopped to fix it as close to launch as they were. I wish Spacex the best of luck in a launch tomorrow.