SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates

[beancounter]

SpaceX certainly seems to have a perchant for doing things in-house - the latest report is the turbopump.

True, SpaceX are good at what they do and If they think they can do a better job then there suppilyers they will take it in house.  But recovery of the first stage seems a little outside there basic skill set.  If there is a small effent team doing the job well then I dont see why SpaceX would want to change things.

SpaceX bring things in-house to assure quality, supply reliability and cost control.  I have no doubt that the existing 'recovery' setup is great on quality and supply reliability but cost is the other factor.  By all accounts, the turbopump quality was first rate so cost and supply reliability must have been the other factors.
Therefore assuming flight rates reach a certain level, then the recovery operation will be open to scruitiny from a cost perspective.  In business, everything is.
So far as 'outside the skill set' goes, SpaceX has no trouble obtaining the people with the necessary skills that they require.  Don't see them having any trouble with this either. 
On the other hand, another thought has just occurred to me.  The recovery charges are probably going to drop significantly if they haven't already since they'll have no real business left once Shuttle stops flying.  That's maybe 1 or 2 jobs left.  Maybe SpaceX will just buy the whole setup at bargain basement price if they get reusability sorted. 

[Jim]

.  The recovery charges are probably going to drop significantly if they haven't already since they'll have no real business left once Shuttle stops flying.  That's maybe 1 or 2 jobs left.  Maybe SpaceX will just buy the whole setup at bargain basement price if they get reusability sorted. 

No, they will increase because they have to maintain the capability (fund a standing army)

[go4mars]

It has nothing to do with available missions to fly.  They won't achieve those flight rates.

Is there a timeframe missing from this statement?  Or is it stated as intended?

[kevin-rf]

Why is everyone knocking SpaceX for renting existing recovery ships, vs. going to the extra expense of outfitting there own ship. Using this logic, SpaceX needs to buy it's own Florida swamp land and spend the millions (billions?) to build it's own range.

Just curious who does SpaceX lease the recovery ships from in Kwajalein?

[JohnFornaro]

It has nothing to do with available missions to fly.  They won't achieve those flight rates.

Is there a timeframe missing from this statement?  Or is it stated as intended?

Yes, there is.  And a whole lot more besides.  Particularly, confident prediction about the specifics of unknown future data points, without even the acknowledgement that SpaceX could modify its strategies as conditions warrant. 

[madscientist197]

I was honestly floored when i read that the SRB recovery team was only 9 people.

I am truly impressed by this.

[Avron]

I was honestly floored when i read that the SRB recovery team was only 9 people.

I am truly impressed by this.

Per team? i.e 18 in total?

[Antares]

There's a whole lot of baseless conjecture in the flight rate argument here.  You're not adding anything to the discussion unless you cite what you're basing it on.  "I have no doubt" and "By all accounts" are weak debate tactics, not suitable for those of us who have technical discussions that put lives and Billions of dollars on the line.

[beancounter]

.  The recovery charges are probably going to drop significantly if they haven't already since they'll have no real business left once Shuttle stops flying.  That's maybe 1 or 2 jobs left.  Maybe SpaceX will just buy the whole setup at bargain basement price if they get reusability sorted. 

No, they will increase because they have to maintain the capability (fund a standing army)

Not quite sure about this.  Are you saying that these vessels are used exclusively by NASA and have no other customers. 

If that's correct, then once the Shuttle stops flying, in the absence of SpaceX, what do they do? 

SpaceX will be doing the cost analyses on this side of the business just like they do for any other part of their operations.  There will be a point where it becomes more efficient to bring the operations in-house.

Should the recovery group increase their costs as you believe they will, then in time, they may pass the point where SpaceX decides they're too costly.  SpaceX will then either set up their own recovery group or find some other way of doing things which will be more cost efficient.  They're in business after all, and they're not required to support existing structures.

[kkattula]

If SLS uses Shuttle derived RSRMs, then obviously NASA is going to need to maintain the recovery ships post Shuttle. Being able to offset some of that cost by hiring them out to SpaceX, is a bonus.

After Shuttle retires, will SpaceX be the only user for a couple of years? Or does someone else use them?

[Pheogh]

If SLS uses Shuttle derived RSRMs, then obviously NASA is going to need to maintain the recovery ships post Shuttle. Being able to offset some of that cost by hiring them out to SpaceX, is a bonus.

After Shuttle retires, will SpaceX be the only user for a couple of years? Or does someone else use them?

Not to be Debbie Downer her but doesn't SpaceX still have to demonstrate recovery? I wasn't sure any of the "one" test launches survived.

[kkattula]

...It would be the first non SRB 1st stage ever recovered intact for inspection, ...

Well, except for the odd B-52 and L-1011.  Depending on your definition of first stage. 

[kkattula]

If SLS uses Shuttle derived RSRMs, then obviously NASA is going to need to maintain the recovery ships post Shuttle. Being able to offset some of that cost by hiring them out to SpaceX, is a bonus.

After Shuttle retires, will SpaceX be the only user for a couple of years? Or does someone else use them?

Not to be Debbie Downer her but doesn't SpaceX still have to demonstrate recovery? I wasn't sure any of the "one" test launches survived.

Well yeah, none have survived so far. But I assume they're going to keep on trying to recover first stages.  They still need a recovery ship standing by for that, whether the stage survives or not.

[spacetraveler]

The reentry license for the C1 launch has been finalized.

http://spaceflightnow.com/falcon9/002/101122license/

Hope it can proceed relatively soon here.

[Robotbeat]

Recovery is a lot easier than reuse... I have no doubt SpaceX will be able to pull off first stage recovery. Maybe not this time, but eventually.

[beancounter]

Recovery is a lot easier than reuse... I have no doubt SpaceX will be able to pull off first stage recovery. Maybe not this time, but eventually.

The capsule drop test seemed to indicate a very soft entry into the water.  Since the structures and engines have been designed for reuse then provided they get down in one piece, the reuse bit should be ok.  That said, I still can't think how you'd go about refurbishing and certifying a used first stage for flight.  As I stated in another thread, you can't just take the turbo, run it and say ok we'll fly that bit!!

[Ben the Space Brit]

Did they ever work out why flight 1's core just broke up during descent the way it did?

[gospacex]

Recovery is a lot easier than reuse... I have no doubt SpaceX will be able to pull off first stage recovery. Maybe not this time, but eventually.

The capsule drop test seemed to indicate a very soft entry into the water.  Since the structures and engines have been designed for reuse then provided they get down in one piece, the reuse bit should be ok.  That said, I still can't think how you'd go about refurbishing and certifying a used first stage for flight. As I stated in another thread, you can't just take the turbo, run it and say ok we'll fly that bit!!

Why not?

[ChefPat]

If SLS uses Shuttle derived RSRMs, then obviously NASA is going to need to maintain the recovery ships post Shuttle. Being able to offset some of that cost by hiring them out to SpaceX, is a bonus.

After Shuttle retires, will SpaceX be the only user for a couple of years? Or does someone else use them?

What would stop them from hiring themselves out as a Charter Fishing Boat?

[kkattula]

What would stop them from hiring themselves out as a Charter Fishing Boat?

Nasa's not allowed to compete with commercial operations?