SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates

[Nate_Trost]

I thought the long-pole in the turnaround was going to be the SRB boats for attempting first-stage recovery.

[Antares]

It is. 7 days after Shuttle launch to tow them back in, unload, and go back out.

[beancounter]

It is. 7 days after Shuttle launch to tow them back in, unload, and go back out.

Surely there're other boats available!?

[Jim]

Surely there're other boats available!?

How many boats in the world do you think that are setup to retrieve boosters?

[Namechange User]

Surely there're other boats available!?

How many boats in the world do you think that are setup to retrieve boosters?

37. 

[Nomadd]

 Would SpaceX delay the flight just because they wouldn't be able to recover the 1st stage?

[arkaska]

Most likely since recovering the 1st (and later even the 2nd) stage is a big part in making the launches cheap.

[butters]

Most likely since recovering the 1st (and later even the 2nd) stage is a big part in making the launches cheap.

More likely since recovering the first stage is a big part of their plans to refine the design and margins of the vehicle over time.  They'd like to enable reuse most likely starting with the thrust structure, but at this point in time the engineering analysis is the most important reason for recovery.  They need that data to see if they can tease some more mass and cost out of that stage.  It's probably a bit of a "battleship" construction right now to hedge the risk of an embarrassing failure.

[Dave G]

... at this point in time the engineering analysis is the most important reason for recovery.  They need that data to see if they can tease some more mass and cost out of that stage.  It's probably a bit of a "battleship" construction right now to hedge the risk of an embarrassing failure.

Exactly.

Reuse is secondary at the moment.

[iamlucky13]

Would SpaceX delay the flight just because they wouldn't be able to recover the 1st stage?

I think it would be more apt to ask why wouldn't they? Seven days isn't that much of a delay, and they have no hard deadline on this launch.

That means nothing by itself, but combined with the performance evaluation it could allow and potential for eventual re-use, it seems well-worth it.

[beancounter]

Surely there're other boats available!?

How many boats in the world do you think that are setup to retrieve boosters?

Well yes I understand the comment about boats and boosters but some time ago, there was a photo showing a floating pontoon arrangment for recovering the F9 1st stage.  Looked like all you really needed was a tow boat.  So again, surely there's something else available that would suit?

[SpacexULA]

Surely there're other boats available!?

How many boats in the world do you think that are setup to retrieve boosters?

Well yes I understand the comment about boats and boosters but some time ago, there was a photo showing a floating pontoon arrangment for recovering the F9 1st stage.  Looked like all you really needed was a tow boat.  So again, surely there's something else available that would suit?

Just out of curiosity, is the reason SpaceX is using the SRB recovery teams because of some type of special licence so they have to fly closer to the incoming 1st stage (like catching a fly ball in baseball), or is it just their experience in finding spent 1st stages?

How close can the boat get to the projected spashdown point before it impacts?

[Lars_J]

Size-wise the F9 first stage is very close to an SRB, so it makes sense to use the services of a ship capable of recovering similar hardware.

[beancounter]

Size-wise the F9 first stage is very close to an SRB, so it makes sense to use the services of a ship capable of recovering similar hardware.

On the other hand, we're all making the assumption that the 1st stage comes down in one piece otherwise all you might need is a 'tinnie' (small aluminium boat with outboard) to recover the pieces! LOL.

Joking aside, here's all the best to them.

[Jim]

Surely there're other boats available!?

How many boats in the world do you think that are setup to retrieve boosters?

Well yes I understand the comment about boats and boosters but some time ago, there was a photo showing a floating pontoon arrangment for recovering the F9 1st stage.  Looked like all you really needed was a tow boat.  So again, surely there's something else available that would suit?

How many boat crews in the world do you think that are experienced in retrieving boosters

[Jim]

Well yes I understand the comment about boats and boosters but some time ago, there was a photo showing a floating pontoon arrangment for recovering the F9 1st stage.  Looked like all you really needed was a tow boat.  So again, surely there's something else available that would suit?

How many boats in the world do you think that are setup to retrieve boosters?  Not just towing but strapped to the side of the boat (see a boat with a retrieved SRB), have deck space and crane for the pontoon, can support divers, have a propulsion system to navigate with a  SRB strapped to the side of the boat, can navigate the shallow Banana River..... need I add more?

[Jim]

Just out of curiosity, is the reason SpaceX is using the SRB recovery teams because of some type of special licence

no such thing

[beancounter]

Well yes I understand the comment about boats and boosters but some time ago, there was a photo showing a floating pontoon arrangment for recovering the F9 1st stage.  Looked like all you really needed was a tow boat.  So again, surely there's something else available that would suit?

How many boats in the world do you think that are setup to retrieve boosters?  Not just towing but strapped to the side of the boat (see a boat with a retrieved SRB), have deck space and crane for the pontoon, can support divers, have a propulsion system to navigate with a  SRB strapped to the side of the boat, can navigate the shallow Banana River..... need I add more?

Salvage is salvage.  If you want to make it difficult and expensive go right ahead but my old man worked in marine salvage most of his life and I learnt a great deal about it before heading into beancounting.
It's not that difficult.  Dangerous at times, yes, but difficult generally no.  You don't need special gear for navigation, propulsion and the like.  An experienced operator doesn't need all that.  They use their experience and skill.  As for shallow winding rivers, give me a break, they exist in other parts of the world. 
An empty booster's just that, nothing special so don't try to keep perpetuating old myths to keep things expensive.  They don't have to be like that.
Normally you make a lot of sense Jim and I have great respect for your comments but here on this one, you're just plain wrong.  Might be the existing old way.  Doesn't have to be the future.

[Jim]

Salvage is salvage.  If you want to make it difficult and expensive go right ahead but my old man worked in marine salvage most of his life and I learnt a great deal about it before heading into beancounting.
It's not that difficult.  Dangerous at times, yes, but difficult generally no.  You don't need special gear for navigation, propulsion and the like.  An experienced operator doesn't need all that.  They use their experience and skill.  As for shallow winding rivers, give me a break, they exist in other parts of the world. 
An empty booster's just that, nothing special so don't try to keep perpetuating old myths to keep things expensive.  They don't have to be like that.
Normally you make a lot of sense Jim and I have great respect for your comments but here on this one, you're just plain wrong.  Might be the existing old way.  Doesn't have to be the future.

No, I am not wrong.   This is not salvage, it is recovery.  Salvage is not concerned with saving fit, form and function.  Salvage is only concerned with saving the materials.

It is not a shallow river, it is a lagoon with manatees.  The SRB ships use jet propulsion while in the lagoon.  What special navigation equipment?  Never said about that, however, the SRB ships do have special gear for tracking the boosters.  And they have the existing hardware for recovering parachutes.

As for an empty booster, you don't really know what is involved with the recovery. 

"experienced operator doesn't need all that.  They use their experience and skill."   That is why the SRB ships are being used. 

Also, more importantly, Spacex doesn't have to pay to train or maintain the service. Nor do they have to pay to reserve the time for the service, only when they actually use it.   The service exists and when it is not working a shuttle mission, it is available.

[tobi453]

So what will SpaceX do, when the shuttle retires?