SpaceX COTS Demo 1 Updates

[Nomadd]

 I imagine Dragon will have a full fuel load and maybe something actually usable in case of berthing approval, like water.
 There's probably not enough time for the t-shirt idea anyhow, since SpaceX would undoubtably insist on building the underwear compactor in their own factory. Probably make the t-shirts from raw cotton too.
 

[hop]

I imagine Dragon will have a full fuel load and maybe something actually usable in case of berthing approval, like water.

Alternatively, just taking away a couple tons of trash would be a great value for the ISS. Or return some failed items that are slated for progress disposal.

[jimvela]

Probably make the t-shirts from raw cotton too.

Why are people obsessed with T-shirts, and then whole T-shirts?

If they want to fly something that can be resold, how about a 1"x1" foil hologram on bulk rolls, which could then be cut up and incorporated into any number of products with "the hologram on this _____ flew in space aboard a SpaceX Dragon" or some such.

As others mentioned, inbound Water to transfer,  and even a partial load of downmass items would be a meaningful mission contribution to a bonus berthing on the next demo flight.

[R.Simko]

Probably make the t-shirts from raw cotton too.

Why are people obsessed with T-shirts, and then whole T-shirts?

If they want to fly something that can be resold, how about a 1"x1" foil hologram on bulk rolls, which could then be cut up and incorporated into any number of products with "the hologram on this _____ flew in space aboard a SpaceX Dragon" or some such.

As others mentioned, inbound Water to transfer,  and even a partial load of downmass items would be a meaningful mission contribution to a bonus berthing on the next demo flight.

That hologram on bulk rolls idea of yours sounds great.  Of course I'm hoping that NASA will contract SpaceX for actual ISS supplies on this next launch.  Perhaps SpaceX could slip in a hologram roll or two, along with the ISS suppies.  Even if the holograms don't make a lot of money, it could be great publicity.

[rickl]

I thought I read at the time of the Dec. 8 flight that Dragon carried a cargo of mission patches.  I assumed they would be offered for sale to the public.  Later I read somewhere that they were for SpaceX employees.

I apologize if this has already been covered.  I'm new here.  It looks like a great forum, but I'm not going to read all 85 pages of comments on this thread.   

[docmordrid]

Why are people obsessed with T-shirts, and then whole T-shirts?

Speaking of T-shirts; the LA Times is reporting NASA staffers wearing "WWED" T-shirts: What Would Elon Do?  This in the context of if the agency can modify its culture.

LA Times....

[Nomadd]

Why are people obsessed with T-shirts, and then whole T-shirts?

Speaking of T-shirts; the LA Times is reporting NASA staffers wearing "WWED" T-shirts: What Would Elon Do?  This in the context of if the agency can modify its culture.

LA Times....

 Trying to  picture  Jim in that t-shirt.

[cuddihy]

the LA Times is reporting NASA staffers wearing "WWED" T-shirts: What Would Elon Do?  This in the context of if the agency can modify its culture.

Answer: exactly what he has already done. That is, promise to deliver reduced cost (by an order of magnitude) access to ___space on a compressed timeline. then, actually deliver at a mild decrement from normal NASA costs something slightly less capable than promised at twice his originally anticipated price and schedule, then put out a press release proclaiming the acheivment as heralding a new era.

[Nomadd]

the LA Times is reporting NASA staffers wearing "WWED" T-shirts: What Would Elon Do?  This in the context of if the agency can modify its culture.

Answer: exactly what he has already done. That is, promise to deliver reduced cost (by an order of magnitude) access to ___space on a compressed timeline. then, actually deliver at a mild decrement from normal NASA costs something slightly less capable than promised at twice his originally anticipated price and schedule, then put out a press release proclaiming the acheivment as heralding a new era.

 You say he promised 1/10 the usual cost, came in at twice that, then call it a "mild decrement from normal NASA costs" 
 What exactly is "Normal" for NASA anyhow? Progress? HTV? ATV? Or are you talking about the Shuttle?

[meekGee]

Hi Folks, long time reader, first time responder...

This really takes the cake....

Straight from Google Cache:

Jan 9, 2004 - Jump to: Falcon 9 Overview - First Stage - Second Stage - Merlin Engine - Reliability .... LEO (s/c<80% capacity to the customer orbit), $49.9M ...

k?    Was $49.9M 6 years ago, is $49.9M today.    And on top, development cost next to nothing on the NASA scale.

And yes, anyone (looking at you cuddihy) - if Google cache is wrong, or if you have other data about prices promised being lower than $50M for F9, do own up and post them.

[Comga]

That price is only good through Thursday.
http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php
Better hurry....

[rklaehn]

Hi Folks, long time reader, first time responder...

This really takes the cake....

Straight from Google Cache:

Jan 9, 2004 - Jump to: Falcon 9 Overview - First Stage - Second Stage - Merlin Engine - Reliability .... LEO (s/c<80% capacity to the customer orbit), $49.9M ...

k?    Was $49.9M 6 years ago, is $49.9M today.    And on top, development cost next to nothing on the NASA scale.

And yes, anyone (looking at you cuddihy) - if Google cache is wrong, or if you have other data about prices promised being lower than $50M for F9, do own up and post them.

Here is the price from the announcement of the falcon 9 in january 2006:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060111045603/http://www.spacex.com/

The money quote: In the medium configuration, Falcon 9 is priced at $27 million per flight with a 12 ft (3.6 m) fairing and $35 million with a 17 ft fairing. Prices include all launch range and third party insurance costs, making Falcon 9 the most cost efficient vehicle in its class worldwide.

So prices did increase substantially. But it is still the cheapest US launch vehicle, so if they can demonstrate high reliability they should have no problems finding customers.

[Lars_J]

the LA Times is reporting NASA staffers wearing "WWED" T-shirts: What Would Elon Do?  This in the context of if the agency can modify its culture.

Answer: exactly what he has already done. That is, promise to deliver reduced cost (by an order of magnitude) access to ___space on a compressed timeline. then, actually deliver at a mild decrement from normal NASA costs something slightly less capable than promised at twice his originally anticipated price and schedule, then put out a press release proclaiming the acheivment as heralding a new era.

Do I sense frustration? :-D

[cuddihy]

been a SpaceX fan since they started. Significantly less of an Elon Musk fan, however.

It's not that I don't think what SpaceX has accomplished isn't impressive. It goes to show what a billion dollars, properly applied, can do.

But compared to what Elon Musk was proposing when he started, as what he would consider success, (at one point he said he would consider if they could not get their eventual $/kg to less than  1/10th of what it was, he would consider that a failure. Of course, he also originally said if they failed to launch 3 F1s in a row, he would consider that a signal that he should quit.)

So the history of SpaceX is in many respects, the Education of Elon. Like our president, he has been doing a lot of OJT for a very difficult job.

No doubt  SpaceX makes more effective use of $500 million than ATK. And that's about as far as you can take it.

[meekGee]

ok - I trust the wayback machine snapshot over google's.  Still only a moderate increase given both time and project development scope that elapsed since then, not anywhere near "twice as expensive".

Regarding $/kg, F9 is just the beginning. F9H is advertised lower, and at least the company line regarding F9 pricing is that it assumes no component re-use.  Heavy lift will follow as well - I don't think he committed to reducing the price by a factor of 10 by the second launch of F9, did he?

And yeah, he didn't quit after 3 failures - sue him.  Actually, if you look at how and when they occurred, the signal was strong that F1 was a success - even the first shot was encouraging from that point of view.

Performance wise, this guy walks on water.  When compared to the performance record of the established rocket industry, he walks on air.

[mmeijeri]

It goes to show what a billion dollars, properly applied, can do.

A billion dollars? I thought it was half a billion. Still an enormous amount of money of course, though not for manned spaceflight.

[Downix]

It goes to show what a billion dollars, properly applied, can do.

A billion dollars? I thought it was half a billion. Still an enormous amount of money of course, though not for manned spaceflight.

And does not count the money NASA spent on the technology base and research that Space tapped.

[mmeijeri]

And does not count the money NASA spent on the technology base and research that Space tapped.

The same goes for the billions spent on Ares I + Orion which also tapped the same technology base and research. In addition, those were sunk costs before either endeavour started.

[R.Simko]

been a SpaceX fan since they started. Significantly less of an Elon Musk fan, however.

It's not that I don't think what SpaceX has accomplished isn't impressive. It goes to show what a billion dollars, properly applied, can do.

But compared to what Elon Musk was proposing when he started, as what he would consider success, (at one point he said he would consider if they could not get their eventual $/kg to less than  1/10th of what it was, he would consider that a failure. Of course, he also originally said if they failed to launch 3 F1s in a row, he would consider that a signal that he should quit.)

So the history of SpaceX is in many respects, the Education of Elon. Like our president, he has been doing a lot of OJT for a very difficult job.

No doubt  SpaceX makes more effective use of $500 million than ATK. And that's about as far as you can take it.

"Of course, he (Elon) also originally said if they failed to launch 3 F1s in a row, he would consider that a signal that he should quit."

I'm not sure what you are complaining about here.  Considering he should quit, is not the same thing as saying he WILL quit.  Thank goodness he didn't quit, if he had, we would have all missed the next 4 straight sussessful launches done by SpaceX.

His NOT quiting, is a sign of his fortitude and something to be admired. 

[Lars_J]

And does not count the money NASA spent on the technology base and research that Space tapped.

...Which is also available to every other domestic aerospace corporation. Nothing has stopped (or is stopping) any of the other larger corporations from doing what SpaceX is doing.