Centennial Challenges to get more funding?

[jongoff]

My boss mentioned earlier that the language that just came out of  conference for the FY2010 Appropriations bill includes $4M for Centennial Challenges (the first time CC has gotten more money since it was started back in 04 or 05). 

Ah, here's a reference: http://docs.house.gov/rules/omni2010/hr3288cr_divb_jes.pdf  Go to page 182 of the pdf, and it's about 3/4 of the way down the page under the Innovative Partnerships Program budget.

I'm not sure how much money the Centennial Challenges program has handed out this year, but it's pretty close to that amount, so it's good they'll have money for more prizes moving forward.  Here's to hoping they can make the new prizes as exciting as the existing ones have been.  The Lunar Lander Challenge was definitely an adventure!

~Jon

[bad_astra]

I feel very strongly that NASA needs a vertical drag racing prize.

And it needs me to witness the event.

[jongoff]

I feel very strongly that NASA needs a vertical drag racing prize.

And it needs me to witness the event.

Heh.  Well played.

~Jon

[Ronsmytheiii]

Personally, I think prizes for new TPS systems are needed.  Give cash awards for TPS that works, is light, can resist damage, and is easy to handle. 

Another would be to create inexpensive electronics for satellites, as right now they are the largest cost contributor to spaceflight.

Finally system engineering concepts.  Compete to optimize existing systems and bring their cost down.  That might not be as "sexy" as a new engine or rocket, but if mitigating costs by turning a crank left versus right or using a railroad instead of using a barge that should be something to be invested in.

[thomson]

I didn't want to start new thread, so I ask here. During final phase of Lunar Lander Challenge, many people mentioned hypothetical level 3.
As far as I can tell, this was only wishful thinking.

Are there any plans for similar contest? Some insider leaks, perhaps?

[jongoff]

I didn't want to start new thread, so I ask here. During final phase of Lunar Lander Challenge, many people mentioned hypothetical level 3.
As far as I can tell, this was only wishful thinking.

Are there any plans for similar contest? Some insider leaks, perhaps?

Not so much wishful thinking, as people suggesting ideas that they'd like to see happen.  But AFAIK, there's no substance to this.

~Jon

[Bill White]

I feel very strongly that NASA needs a vertical drag racing prize.

And it needs me to witness the event.

Heh.  Well played.

~Jon

I think ESPN needs to sponsor a vertical drag racing event. Together with Red Incorrect.

Why must all roads go through NASA?

[neilh]

I didn't want to start new thread, so I ask here. During final phase of Lunar Lander Challenge, many people mentioned hypothetical level 3.
As far as I can tell, this was only wishful thinking.

Are there any plans for similar contest? Some insider leaks, perhaps?

Not so much wishful thinking, as people suggesting ideas that they'd like to see happen.  But AFAIK, there's no substance to this.

~Jon

I wonder if we'll find out more details regarding future Challenges from Charles Bolden at the Friday recognition ceremony for the Centennial Challenges.

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2010/feb/HQ_M10-030_Centennial_Challenges.html

[neilh]

NASA Chief Technologist Robert Braun mentioned plans to announced a "Centennial Challenges Lunar Exploration Prize" on April 26:

http://spacepolicyonline.com/pages/images/stories/Braun_-_NASA_OCT_March_9_ASEB.pdf
http://spaceprizes.blogspot.com/2010/03/future-nasa-centennial-challenges.html

[neilh]

NASA Chief Technologist Robert Braun mentioned plans to announced a "Centennial Challenges Lunar Exploration Prize" on April 26:

http://spacepolicyonline.com/pages/images/stories/Braun_-_NASA_OCT_March_9_ASEB.pdf
http://spaceprizes.blogspot.com/2010/03/future-nasa-centennial-challenges.html

I wonder if this will be an augmentation of the Google Lunar X Prize, or something else entirely.

[neilh]

NASA Chief Technologist Robert Braun to announce three new Centennial Challenges on July 13:

http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/industry_day_info.html

NASA’s Office of the Chief Technologist will host an Industry Forum at the University of Maryland on July 13-14 to discuss the agency's proposed new space technology investments. The event will focus on the President’s fiscal year 2011 budget request for NASA's new Space Technology Programs. Representatives from industry, academia, and the federal government are invited to discuss strategy, development, and implementation of the proposed new technology-enabled strategy for exploration.

NASA has completed the initial phase of planning for its new Space Technology Programs. The Forum’s objectives are to:
* Provide status of planning for the new Space Technology Programs
* Solicit feedback, information and ideas relevant to these programs
* Prepare and discuss the next steps in this planning process.
The meeting will be held from 9:00 a.m. to 6 p.m. EDT on July 13 and from 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m., at the University of Maryland, Inn and Conference Center, 3501 University Blvd. East, Adelphi, MD. The first day will also feature the announcement of three new Centennial Challenges prize competitions. There will be a Q&A session with the news media on July 13 at 10:30 a.m. to discuss the importance of innovation and technology to NASA’s future exploration plans, the planning status of NASA’s new Space Technology Programs, and the three new Centennial Challenges.

[thomson]

The first day will also feature the announcement of three new Centennial Challenges prize competitions

Any quesses regarding those 3 prizes (objectives and cash wise)?

[neilh]

The first day will also feature the announcement of three new Centennial Challenges prize competitions

Any quesses regarding those 3 prizes (objectives and cash wise)?

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, I think one of them will be an augmentation of the $30M Google Lunar X Prize.

[manboy]

I think they need to get more coverage, sometimes they just kind of happen and not even Nasa's own webpage seems to notice.

Personally, I think prizes for new TPS systems are needed.  Give cash awards for TPS that works, is light, can resist damage, and is easy to handle. 

Thermal Protection Systems seems like a good place to invest.

[jongoff]

The first day will also feature the announcement of three new Centennial Challenges prize competitions

Any quesses regarding those 3 prizes (objectives and cash wise)?

Well, with CC only getting $3 or 4M in new funding last year, my guess is two smaller ones, and maybe one new flagship prize.  Back when they announced the Lunar Lander Challenge, there were two other flagship prizes they were going to announce (had they actually gotten additional funding that year) one for micro reentry vehicles, and one for on-orbit cryogenic propellant storage.  But both of those were going to be $5-10M prizes.

So it'll be interesting to see what they can do with the tiny drip of additional funding they were given.  One part of FY11 that I hope survives any compromise was that they were going to start giving CC $15M/yr.  That would enable some really cool and useful prizes.

~Jon

[jongoff]

The first day will also feature the announcement of three new Centennial Challenges prize competitions

Any quesses regarding those 3 prizes (objectives and cash wise)?

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, I think one of them will be an augmentation of the $30M Google Lunar X Prize.

I personally doubt this one.  CC only has a bit more money, so any augmentation they gave would be adding at most 5-10% to the overall prize. They'd be better off focusing on some new prizes with what they've been given.

~Jon

[neilh]

The first day will also feature the announcement of three new Centennial Challenges prize competitions

Any quesses regarding those 3 prizes (objectives and cash wise)?

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, I think one of them will be an augmentation of the $30M Google Lunar X Prize.

I personally doubt this one.  CC only has a bit more money, so any augmentation they gave would be adding at most 5-10% to the overall prize. They'd be better off focusing on some new prizes with what they've been given.

~Jon

Good point. I wonder what else would constitute a "Lunar Exploration Prize" as Robert Braun previously alluded to. Perhaps an upscaled Lunar Lander Challenge? Just to toss out ideas, but it'd be neat to have something like a VTVL lander drop off a robotic rover or ISRU simulator, although that would get away from more focused nature of earlier prizes.

[manboy]

Google Lunar X Prize - Progress (found through UniverseToday)

[Robotbeat]

Wow, Odyssey Moon looks to be pretty far along.

[neilh]

NASA Chief Technologist Robert Braun to announce three new Centennial Challenges on July 13:

http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/industry_day_info.html

NASA’s Office of the Chief Technologist will host an Industry Forum at the University of Maryland on July 13-14 to discuss the agency's proposed new space technology investments. The event will focus on the President’s fiscal year 2011 budget request for NASA's new Space Technology Programs. Representatives from industry, academia, and the federal government are invited to discuss strategy, development, and implementation of the proposed new technology-enabled strategy for exploration.

NASA has completed the initial phase of planning for its new Space Technology Programs. The Forum’s objectives are to:
* Provide status of planning for the new Space Technology Programs
* Solicit feedback, information and ideas relevant to these programs
* Prepare and discuss the next steps in this planning process.
The meeting will be held from 9:00 a.m. to 6 p.m. EDT on July 13 and from 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m., at the University of Maryland, Inn and Conference Center, 3501 University Blvd. East, Adelphi, MD. The first day will also feature the announcement of three new Centennial Challenges prize competitions. There will be a Q&A session with the news media on July 13 at 10:30 a.m. to discuss the importance of innovation and technology to NASA’s future exploration plans, the planning status of NASA’s new Space Technology Programs, and the three new Centennial Challenges.

A reminder that this is tomorrow. It'll be particularly interesting since the current version of the bill being drafted by the US Senate apparently contains text which would slash funding for Centennial Challenges and much other technology development work.

[neilh]

Looks like the new Centennial Challenges announcement is 10am EST tomorrow: http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/467171main_OCT_Industry_Forum_July_13_Agenda_v12.pdf

[Danderman]

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2010/07/13/nasa-announces-challenges-nanosats-night-rovers-sample-return/

"NASA announced three new Centennial Challenges Tuesday, with an overall prize purse of $5 million. NASA’s Centennial Challenges are prize competitions for technological achievements by independent teams who work without government funding.

“NASA sponsors prize competitions because the agency believes student teams, private companies of all sizes and citizen-inventors can provide creative solutions to problems of interest to NASA and the nation,” said Bobby Braun, the agency’s chief technologist. “Prize competitions are a proven way to foster technological competitiveness, new industries and innovation across America.”

The Nano-Satellite Launch Challenge is to place a small satellite into Earth orbit, twice in one week, with a prize of $2 million. The goals of this challenge are to stimulate innovations in low-cost launch technology and encourage creation of commercial nano-satellite delivery services.

The Night Rover Challenge is to demonstrate a solar-powered exploration vehicle that can operate in darkness using its own stored energy. The prize purse is $1.5 million. The objective is to stimulate innovations in energy storage technologies of value in extreme space environments, such as the surface of the moon, or for electric vehicles and renewable energy systems on Earth.

The Sample Return Robot Challenge is to demonstrate a robot that can locate and retrieve geologic samples from wide and varied terrain without human control. This challenge has a prize purse of $1.5 million. The objectives are to encourage innovations in automatic navigation and robotic manipulator technologies."

[bodge]

The Night Rover Challenge is to demonstrate a solar-powered exploration vehicle that can operate in darkness using its own stored energy. The prize purse is $1.5 million. The objective is to stimulate innovations in energy storage technologies of value in extreme space environments, such as the surface of the moon, or for electric vehicles and renewable energy systems on Earth.

Since hearing about this I've been wondering - what exactly is the benchmark for duration in unmanned electric ground vehicles?

Has anyone ever run an electric R/C car for a full 24 hours on Earth?

This is the best I could find online...

http://gizmodo.com/5322339/tricycle-robot-going-for-rc-distance-record-against-all-odds

Not exactly a lunar capable rover!!

In terms of a manned vehicle, this appears to be the current record:

http://sanyo.com/news/2010/05/24-1.html

...no solar...just a boat load of batteries!



I would appreciate if anyone else has any other benchmarks to compare this challenge against. As a start I'm thinking purely electric land vehicles (no electric plane records) for duration only. 

-Bodge

[A_M_Swallow]

I have been wondering whether a night was Earth type darkness of order(12 hours) or a Moon type darkness of order(2 weeks).

[bodge]

I have been wondering whether a night was Earth type darkness of order(12 hours) or a Moon type darkness of order(2 weeks).

I imagine in order to be worth a $1.5 million purse, it's going to be closer to the lunar 2 week long night. Otherwise, for a typical earth night the challenge wouldn't be all that difficult.

Some other questions I have..

-Will there be conditions mimicing the moon's extreme environments? Thermal vacuum runs? At the least, extreme heat or cold runs on Earth (Death Valley vs. Arctic)

-Will the rover be allowed to be remotely operated, or will it need to be automated? I'm thinking R/C, since an automated rover challenge is being done separately.

-Power? Does all the power collecting means need to be onboard, or would a solar charging station be allowed?

I'm anxious for the release of more details / rules later in the year. This is a challenge that I am very interested in participating in, having already some experience in solar energy collection and energy storage. I'm already pushing towards getting some data on how far/long off-the-shelf electric R/C cars can travel..then coupling in trickle charging...building up storage capacity....improving efficiencies (better motors, controllers) and going from there. I figure starting some exploratory work now is a good start. Worst case, I could end up building my own solar powered lawn mower if the challenge isn't pursued in the final FY 2011 budget.

Maybe I'll start a new thread dedicated to this potential challenge...

UPDATE:

New thread, specific to Night Rover posted here: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=22293.new#new


-Bodge