Falcon 1 - Post Failure thread

[Nick L.]

Yeah, I think that flame shooting sideways was the main engine failing - maybe that was what people were talking about with the ablative nozzle failure.
Maybe they didn't take into account how much of the ablative burned off during the test fires?

EDIT: I just thought of this. With the non-explosive FTS (thrust termination only), maybe they would be able to retrieve the rocket and inspect it to see what went wrong. Do you think that is possible?

[mr.columbus]

The blanket is violently flying around until second 34-35. Then it must have struck the nozzle, a sidewards burn appears, the rocket went horizontal and then makes its way down to the ocean.

Unfornutate, but true, a thin blanket killed the beast. At least, they won't need to make many mods to the rocket itself for the next launch, just remove that devil's blanket...

[TimR]

The blankets are definitely still there, but I don't see how they would cause such a sudden roll (yaw) motion in the vehicle.  Is it possible that a loose blanket somehow damaged the nozzle or thrust vectoring system?  What would happen if a blanket impinged on the plume during flight?

Good luck with getting to the bottom of this, SpaceX!

--TimR

[ericr]

Goes to show what an excellent product velcro is!

[amon]

I see an orange flame going out at an angle just as the vehicle starts rolling and and pitches down. Would others agree the camera was going until impact with the ocean?

[edkyle99]

amon - 24/3/2006  6:31 PM

I see an orange flame going out at an angle just as the vehicle starts rolling and and pitches down. Would others agree the camera was going until impact with the ocean?

Looks that way to me.  It looks to have been headed toward shallow water.

 - Ed Kyle

[TimR]

In reply to the post above about retrieving the vehicle, I think that's entirely possible. It looks to me in the last few frames of the video there is something that looks like water rushing upwards from the left side of the frame. Or is that just something else?

Kind of reminds me of the onboard videos from the Shuttle SRBs when they are about to splash down into the ocean.

--TimR

[Flightstar]

amon - 24/3/2006  6:31 PM

I see an orange flame going out at an angle just as the vehicle starts rolling and and pitches down. Would others agree the camera was going until impact with the ocean?

It was falling for sure as you can see the Ocean closing in, but it appears to be before impact. I would bet on the vehicle breaking up before impact.

[DaveS]

I don't think the blanket had anything to do with the failure. Blanket detach in the video is at 30 sec, while the change in engine flame and vehicle attitude starts at 35-36 sec.

That is too long in my mind.

[nacnud]

I think the blanket caught fire. For some reason once something catches fire it's drag seems to increase something I learnt while fire juggleing. Could this have dragged the vechicle off course?

[amon]

I also think the thrust was indeed terminated before impact. The orange goes away and there is white smoke only.

[hyper_snyper]

Hypothetically, if it really was an engine failure and not anything else, a Falcon V or Falcon IX would have survived this anomaly.

[mr.columbus]

DaveS - 24/3/2006  7:34 PM

I don't think the blanket had anything to do with the failure. Blanket detach in the video is at 30 sec, while the change in engine flame and vehicle attitude starts at 35-36 sec.

That is too long in my mind.

That would be a really, really strange coincidence. Besides, look carefully again, it's only about 3 seconds from the time we don't see the blanket been shaken around and the sidewards burn. It is very unlikely these two events are unrelated.

[James (Lockheed)]

amon - 24/3/2006  6:37 PM

I also think the thrust was indeed terminated before impact. The orange goes away and there is white smoke only.

That's how I see it too.

[Delta Manager]

They'll learn. They may need to learn this again before they think they can join the big league.

[TimR]

Right, I agree.

Plus, just because the blanket leaves the camera view doesn't mean it has separated from the vehicle. It could have simply wrapped around to the other side.

I just don't see what a blanket could do to a rocket engine, but I guess anything is possible.

Or, it was just a weakened nozzle after all. The good news is they should be able to find out.

[mr.columbus]

Delta Manager - 24/3/2006  7:41 PM

They'll learn. They may need to learn this again before they think they can join the big league.

Actually, they only need to learn how to not attach a blanket to a rocket, that's all...

[Tap-Sa]

nacnud - 25/3/2006  2:37 AM
  Could this have dragged the vechicle off course?

Possibly. Other possibility is that the vehicle was already too much off course before that violent orange burst, and that burst is just a part of the thrust termination (while turbopump spins down redirect propellant overboard?).

I wonder if SpaceX people tested the blanket removal with filled LOX tank? Like I said at T minus 40 mins or so, had a bad feeling about it. Velcro attachment full of ice doesn't come off easy

[amon]

There appear to be some debris coming from further forward. Ice perhaps?

[Chris Bergin]

I wish we had a previous Falcon 1 launch to compare this all with. I'm seeing the vehicle trying to correct itself before the plume is seen.