Author Topic: Virgin Galactic and SpaceShipTwo Master Thread (1) (Read 255439 times)

go4mars · « **Reply #320 on:** 07/20/2011 10:06 pm »

Quote from: Garrett on 07/20/2011 09:07 am

Virgin Galactic has said it's ramping up staffing in preparation for the move to New Mexico and eventual operations. Flights may not start until 2013, spaceport and Virgin Galactic officials have said

At least they are consistent. They have always said "it will be 2 years from now".

Just poking fun. They have come a long way since they started saying that.

Jason1701 · « **Reply #321 on:** 07/20/2011 10:07 pm »

Quote from: go4mars on 07/20/2011 10:06 pm

Quote from: Garrett on 07/20/2011 09:07 am
Virgin Galactic has said it's ramping up staffing in preparation for the move to New Mexico and eventual operations. Flights may not start until 2013, spaceport and Virgin Galactic officials have said

At least they are consistent. They have always said "it will be 2 years from now".

Just poking fun. They have come a long way since they started saying that.

I've been keeping a spreadsheet and graph for the pronouncements of when operations will start. I'll post it once they actually do; should be amusing.

AlexP · « **Reply #322 on:** 07/20/2011 11:06 pm »

Quote from: vt_hokie on 07/20/2011 10:00 pm

Anyone still believe we're going to have DreamChaser flying in 3 or 4 years when this comparatively simple project is years behind schedule?

Couldn't it be equally true that SNC have a more realistic schedule, more outside help to aid in quickly overcoming setbacks as well as more incentive to do so?

Moe Grills · « **Reply #323 on:** 07/20/2011 11:26 pm »

I think the problems and concerns for the SpaceShipTwo rocketmotors
have been greatly exaggerated.
I still think the first carry, drop, and light-the-candle testflight for SS2
will take place before November.
Anyone want to bet against me?

As for the impatient ones on this forum? There's nothing you or your impatience can do to help or hinder
the efforts of these hard working folks at SC.
And believe me, they WORK HARD!!
A lot harder than some of you are used to.

Danderman · « **Reply #324 on:** 07/20/2011 11:37 pm »

Quote from: vt_hokie on 07/20/2011 10:00 pm

Anyone still believe we're going to have DreamChaser flying in 3 or 4 years when this comparatively simple project is years behind schedule?

Apples and oranges.

Chris-A · « **Reply #325 on:** 07/20/2011 11:50 pm »

Quote from: Danderman on 07/20/2011 11:37 pm

Quote from: vt_hokie on 07/20/2011 10:00 pm
Anyone still believe we're going to have DreamChaser flying in 3 or 4 years when this comparatively simple project is years behind schedule?

Apples and oranges.

It depends on if the hybrid propulsion system doesn't experience any major issues while continuing development.

Garrett · « **Reply #326 on:** 07/21/2011 01:56 pm »

Quote from: Moe Grills on 07/20/2011 11:26 pm

I think the problems and concerns for the SpaceShipTwo rocketmotors
have been greatly exaggerated.
I still think the first carry, drop, and light-the-candle testflight for SS2
will take place before November.
Anyone want to bet against me?

I don't think anything regarding the rocket motor has been exaggerated, simply because we have nothing to exaggerate about. And therein lies the problem. We have very little info and so some of us are just a tad concerned. Hopefully our concerns are unfounded and like you I hope for a first powered SS2 flight in Nov/Dec. But now 2013 has been thrown about for first customer flights, so that would mean over a year of flight testing. Initially I was under the impression from VG that 6 months would be required.

Quote

As for the impatient ones on this forum? There's nothing you or your impatience can do to help or hinder
the efforts of these hard working folks at SC.
And believe me, they WORK HARD!!
A lot harder than some of you are used to.

Nobody here doubts that the people at SNC, SC, VG and The Spaceship Company are working flat out. There's no inconsistency between acknowledging that and being impatient. If the first customer flights don't occur until 2013, that will have been 9 years since SS1's historic flight. Quite a wait.

Having said that, I'm still very happy with the progress that's being made on all fronts of private spaceflight: suborbital, NASA-COTS/CRS, and the Google Lunar X-Prize. We've come along way in the last 10 years. I'm impatient, but I'm not complaining.

Cheers

docmordrid · « **Reply #327 on:** 07/21/2011 03:30 pm »

XCOR's Jeff Greason had something to say about this a while back without specifically mentioning VG. His take was the test flights etc. will take as long as it takes and people should quit speculating.

vt_hokie · « **Reply #328 on:** 07/21/2011 04:09 pm »

Quote from: docmordrid on 07/21/2011 03:30 pm

XCOR's Jeff Greason had something to say about this a while back without specifically mentioning VG. His take was the test flights etc. will take as long as it takes and people should quit speculating.

Ironic when Rutan and company were complaining about being sick of waiting for government back in '04, and bragging about how much faster, better, and cheaper their approach would be....

Garrett · « **Reply #329 on:** 07/21/2011 04:48 pm »

Quote from: docmordrid on 07/21/2011 03:30 pm

XCOR's Jeff Greason had something to say about this a while back without specifically mentioning VG. His take was the test flights etc. will take as long as it takes and people should quit speculating.

Quit speculating? Most of us come here just for that; it's half the fun

Seriously though. We're not speculating. We're trying to get extra info because we're passionate and curious. When I'm worrying about issues such as whether or not RocketMotorTwo is having problems, I'm doing so because of a passion for spaceflight, not a passion for criticizing space companies and engineers. I want test flights to take as long as necessary but I get impatient when they appear to be taking longer than necessary. That's all.

AlexP · « **Reply #330 on:** 07/21/2011 06:38 pm »

Quote from: Garrett on 07/21/2011 04:48 pm

Quote from: docmordrid on 07/21/2011 03:30 pm
XCOR's Jeff Greason had something to say about this a while back without specifically mentioning VG. His take was the test flights etc. will take as long as it takes and people should quit speculating.

Quit speculating? Most of us come here just for that; it's half the fun

Seriously though. We're not speculating. We're trying to get extra info because we're passionate and curious. When I'm worrying about issues such as whether or not RocketMotorTwo is having problems, I'm doing so because of a passion for spaceflight, not a passion for criticizing space companies and engineers. I want test flights to take as long as necessary but I get impatient when they appear to be taking longer than necessary. That's all.

I believe that what Jeff Greason was specifically talking about (docmordrid should feel free to correct me if I'm thinking of something else) was that flight testing is called flight testing for a reason, that it's to find any bugs in the system and correct them, and that this is a perfectly normal thing to happen during all aerospace projects. His specific point was that in the modern media age, any delay in such a testing program will immediately be seized upon by onlookers and speculated about endlessly on blogs and forums, which the people working on the programs don't necessarily enjoy.

They want to be going as fast as possible, especially when you consider that everyone at XCOR will be taking a ride into space before they start selling seats - if that's not an incentive I don't know what is!

Cog_in_the_machine · « **Reply #331 on:** 07/21/2011 06:57 pm »

Here's the video in question, skip to 5:05 for the relevant segment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFgyEfobVpo&feature=player_embedded#at=314

Danderman · « **Reply #332 on:** 07/21/2011 07:07 pm »

Quote from: vt_hokie on 07/20/2011 10:00 pm

Anyone still believe we're going to have DreamChaser flying in 3 or 4 years when this comparatively simple project is years behind schedule?

IIRC, the government run lunar exploration program was announced in 2004, and funded to the tune of billions of dollars. How has that worked out, compared with Rutan's progress since 2004?

docmordrid · « **Reply #333 on:** 07/21/2011 07:46 pm »

AlexP - that was my intent.

Cog - thanls for teeing up the video, I'd misplaced the link.

Moe Grills · « **Reply #334 on:** 07/21/2011 08:12 pm »

I've checked different webpages, with Wikipedia thrown in for
good measure, and I find the ledger for a list of pros and cons
for the hybrid rocket motor (any Latex-NOX fueled rocket motor)
leaning heavily towards the pros; the benefits far outway the
liabilities.
You still have to be when careful when handling & using liquid NOX, but you can say the same thing about HNO3, H202, LOX, etc.

As far as the changing surface burn area for the latex-rubber fuel?
There are calculus equations that are used as part of the software
needed to control the flow to compensate for that.
Burn irregularities?
Yea, smooth and efficient fuel-burns are nice, but that comes with time
and adjustments.

I think the SS2 hybrid rocket motor decision was a good one.

Robotbeat · « **Reply #335 on:** 07/21/2011 08:55 pm »

Hybrids tend to have lower isp and higher dry mass. They have basically the same level of complication as a liquid rocket engine (and the harder propellant to handle is almost always the oxidizer), but with the disadvantage that a test-fire means you need a new engine (or at least it means your engine changes significantly), and you have no possibility of "gas and go" operation (no, casting a new propellant load and loading it isn't gas and go). I fail to see the advantages. Either go solid or go liquid.

Danderman · « **Reply #336 on:** 07/22/2011 02:34 am »

FWIW, Sir Richard Branson was on CNN this evening, claiming that VG might be going orbital in the next 5 - 6 years, with a Virgin Space Hotel down the road.

docmordrid · « **Reply #337 on:** 07/22/2011 02:47 am »

Leveraging Dream Chaser, no doubt.

Cinder · « **Reply #338 on:** 07/22/2011 07:32 am »

Forgive me if this is a really stupid question, but wouldn't Skylon work as well for Virgin as contemporary passenger planes like the 747 do for Virgin Airlines? I don't remember seeing the two considered together.

Dappa · « **Reply #339 on:** 07/22/2011 07:49 am »

Skylon wouldn't be ready to fly within the next 5-6 years.